1 minute ago, Woorloog said:

It is not. The BTL-B may have the same overall layout but the turret is especially different in the BTL-A4. Not to mention the model designation, which kinda implies there are other differences (ie its quite different craft inside, even ignoring external differences). The original cross-sections book had a pick of the OT-era Y-wing with plating and it looks still like the S3/A4 model, just with center section covered up. While perhaps no longer canon, i do think that it might still well represent plated A4 Y-wings.

There is space in the timeline for variety of Y-wing variants. Say A4s were built roughly 5 years after the Clone Wars, they'd be old pieces of junk by the OT-era.

To give a real world example, toward the end of the Second World War the British built two light fleet carrier classes, Colossus and Majestic. The primary difference was the internal electrical systems, but they were defined as separate classes. My point being that just because there is a different letter on the end it doesn’t necessarily mean there is a major visible structural difference.

That said, I’m all for variants. I love y-wings I just don’t think that there is scope to make a bigger medium base version because just upscaling a fighter is stupid.

59 minutes ago, Woorloog said:

Wookieepedia    does indicate   that the  later Y-wing  is  about 20  -23  meters  long  

I would recommend taking any measurements on any wiki with a grain of salt. The people designing these ships are not necessarily the ones giving out the measurements. There are multiple comparisons of the two Y-wing variants on these forums, not just Xpav's, and all of them indicate that Wookiepedia's measurements for at least one of the Y's are incorrect. an extra 7 meters for engine nacelles just seems silly IMO. Y-wing will be small base, mainly because it would look weird on a medium, if you ask me.

Here's an idea of exacting Alien Luxury Miniatures 1:270 scale (if the other clone wars products from FFG are any indication, the FFG models will be bigger...). I did these up and used them in a custom campaign format (prior to second edition).

In that campaign I used the following stats:

Z-95: 2 attack, 2 agility, 4 hull, 2 shield

Y-Wing: 2 attack, 1 agility, 6 hull, 1 shield.

For maneuver dials we used the first edition dials but increased a few high-speed turn maneuver difficulties.

I mean, I hope they're different.

Clone Z-95 could be fun with Experimental Sensors, for long-range Locks (but only without a Missile or Torpedo Slot... Homing Missile Clone Z-95 swarms would just be FeelsBadMan to fly against... 6-ish auto-hit attacks? **** no). Give it a red Boost instead of a red Barrel Roll action, but otherwise Focus/Lock. Dial can be about the same (extra K-Turn options? Maybe at 2 and 4 instead of 3?), as well as statline. Going to 2/3/3/1 as a statline might work, but it'd be exactly the same as an Aethersprite, and functionally similar to the N1 with 2/2/3/2 with Full Throttle.

I'd give the BTL-B Y-Wing a better dial than the Rebel/Scum versions. Those exposed panels will create drag in milky space, so a sleek one should lose the red moves. How about it gains white Hard 3 and Straight 4, plus Blue Straight 3, and maybe even Red Talon Rolls (2 speed). I think I'd keep the statline essentially the same, maybe 5 hull 3 shields. I'm not sure I want to give it a ship ability, but stealing Nimble Bomber from a TIE Bomber might be fun. For actions, I could maybe see White Reload instead of Red. And again, I think it'd be cool to see a Red Boost instead of a Red Barrel Roll. That'd just make it feel a bit unique.

15 minutes ago, ZealuxMyr said:

Here's an idea of exacting Alien Luxury Miniatures 1:270 scale (if the other clone wars products from FFG are any indication, the FFG models will be bigger...). I did these up and used them in a custom campaign format (prior to second edition).

In that campaign I used the following stats:

Z-95: 2 attack, 2 agility, 4 hull, 2 shield

Y-Wing: 2 attack, 1 agility, 6 hull, 1 shield.

For maneuver dials we used the first edition dials but increased a few high-speed turn maneuver difficulties.

Maybe instead of giving the Y-wings a medium base, why not giving it to the Clone Z-95s instead? Cheap medium base eith torpedoes would be quite unique.

That sounds like a great idea, especially with how they COMPLETELY dwarf the Z-95-A4 Headhunter in size...

I don't have a reference photo, but the FFG Z-95-A4 Headhunter has a wingspan equal to 1/2 the wingspan of the Alien Luxury Miniature's Clone Z-95 Starfighters!

19 minutes ago, Hippie Moosen said:

I would recommend taking any measurements on any wiki with a grain of salt. The people designing these ships are not necessarily the ones giving out the measurements. There are multiple comparisons of the two Y-wing variants on these forums, not just Xpav's, and all of them indicate that Wookiepedia's measurements for at least one of the Y's are incorrect. an extra 7 meters for engine nacelles just seems silly IMO. Y-wing will be small base, mainly because it would look weird on a medium, if you ask me.

Well, they're citing official sources, and those sources are probably based on the physical model or CGI model scales and measurements (especially for the BTL-B ). And X-wing TMG miniatures are probably based on those models, scales, and measurements.

Obviously the figures themselves may not be entirely correct all the same. IIRC, the Death Star model for ANH implies different size than the final cited figure is (IIRC, 180km), the same might have happened with other models.

Doesn't help that when EU got thrown away, new Databank had some weird stuff in it, such as labeling Corellian Corvettes as Alderaan Cruisers. And also giving one size figure for all Y-wing models, 23 meters (thus Wookieepedia gives the Y-wings length as 23 meters but 16 m without engines). Seems that the original Y-wing is cited as being as 16 meters length in Legends tab, based on on the old Rebel Sourcebook and old SW Databank. Given that X-wings have been consistently given length as 12.5 meters, comparing the miniatures indicates that 16 meters is accurate (uncertain if this agrees with what we see on screen in ANH though).

If you compare a screencap from ANH to screencap from Battlefront 2, the BTL-B does seem somewhat larger for sure, using the cockpit and droid as reference points, but admittedly the latter cannot be 7 meters longer. The art comparison in the previous page seems to be reasonably accurate. So perhaps the 16 m figure given in the old sources is wrong, and in that case the Y-wing miniature would be in wrong scale, or otherwise modified. Do note i'm thinking about the old Y-wing sculpt, i do not have the new one (the too large turret is putting me off from getting one).

As for the base, i'll note the U-wing is a medium-base ship despite being relatively small, with length of 24 meters with wings front (miniatures are in good agreement, two X-wings together are just a bit longer than the U-wing). So the Y-wing could be a medium base ship. Then again, an argument can be made that the U-wing should be small base...

...

All this thinking has made me think that perhaps the small base is best fit for the BTL-B.

4 hours ago, Odanan said:

Maybe instead of giving the Y-wings a medium base, why not giving it to the Clone Z-95s instead? Cheap medium base eith torpedoes would be quite unique.

I hereby revoke my previous idea about medium base Y-wings in favor of this. The rest of the post still stands, but this is a genuinely better idea

I would think the Clone wars Y wing would maybe get an extra crew or gunner slot? Maybe not... i just realize the rebel and scum ships already have a gunner slot and i thought that was unique to the clone wars era ships.

And I don't believe the clone Zs are really that big. When you look at sizing in the cartoon, they are not that large, certainly smaller than arc-170s

38 minutes ago, Arc170Chris said:

I would think the Clone wars Y wing would maybe get an extra crew or gunner slot? Maybe not... i just realize the rebel and scum ships already have a gunner slot and i thought that was unique to the clone wars era ships.

And I don't believe the clone Zs are really that big. When you look at sizing in the cartoon, they are not that large, certainly smaller than arc-170s

I think the Republic Y-wing will have gunner slot, just like the current Y-wing. It is two-person craft, one pilot, one gunner. And astromech. Doesn't seem appropriate for it to have a crew slot instead of a gunner slot. While the BTL-B may differ somewhat from the BTL-A4, it will be very similar for most part.

Also i expect we'll see Anakin as a pilot and Ahsoka as a gunner, since that's more or less how we first see the BTL-B Y-wing in The Clone Wars.

As for the clone Z-95, its length and width are presumably from The Clone Wars 3D models. Its concept art model looks pretty big , the X-wing's nose would end somewhere near the canards and its engines are shorter (and the ARC is only a bit longer than the X-wing). And it may not look that big next to the ARCs because of its proportions. The ARC is short but very wide and rather bulky all in all, the Clone Z-05 is much thinner and flatter, overall sleeker. Think we never seen them next to each other in close distance from good angle for that matter.

EDIT LAAT and cZ-95

Not ideal pic but note that the LAAT's wingspan is just a tad longer than the cHeadhunter's.

EDIT woah, i just realized that LAATs are actually pretty small. Weird.

EDIT Duh, there's conflicting information about the LAAT's size. Newer info puts it at nearly 30 meters long, but given how its wingspan seems to be roughly equal to its length, 30 meters doesn't seem plausible, not to mention its height staying nearly same as previously. Of course, it seems the size comes from a book that makes considerable amount of errors , so i reckon the length for LAAT is wrong.

On 4/5/2019 at 8:31 PM, Woorloog said:

If you compare a screencap from ANH to screencap from Battlefront 2, the BTL-B does seem somewhat larger for sure, using the cockpit and droid as reference points, but admittedly the latter cannot be 7 meters longer. The art comparison in the previous page seems to be reasonably accurate. So perhaps the 16 m figure given in the old sources is wrong, and in that case the Y-wing miniature would be in wrong scale, or otherwise modified. Do note i'm thinking about the old Y-wing sculpt, i do not have the new one (the too large turret is putting me off from getting one).

Battlefront 2 model is really bad, if you compare it to TCW models there are like two completely different designs, I wouldn't use it for reference.

I made some rough measurments recently because of the same question, and even counting larger cannons Clone Wars Y-wing can't be that much longer. Based on the size of the astromech dome, which is the only part with known dimensions, 16m OT Y-wing is much closer to "reality", with BTL-B at about 20.5 meters.

20 hours ago, Woorloog said:

EDIT woah, i just realized that LAATs are actually pretty small. Weird.

EDIT Duh, there's conflicting information about the LAAT's size. Newer info puts it at nearly 30 meters long, but given how its wingspan seems to be roughly equal to its length, 30 meters doesn't seem plausible, not to mention its height staying nearly same as previously. Of course, it seems the size comes from a book that makes considerable amount of errors , so i reckon the length for LAAT is wrong.

The databank has it at 17.69m https://www.starwars.com/databank/republic-attack-gunship

5 minutes ago, eMeM said:

Battlefront 2 model is really bad, if you compare it to TCW models there are like two completely different designs, I wouldn't use it for reference.

I made some rough measurments recently because of the same question, and even counting larger cannons Clone Wars Y-wing can't be that much longer. Based on the size of the astromech dome, which is the only part with known dimensions, 16m OT Y-wing is much closer to "reality", with BTL-B at about 20.5 meters.

Now that you mention it and i pay attention, TCW BTL-B does look slightly different, though not to the point i'd call it completely different. TCW is somewhat stylized after all. But the BF2 model is probably too large. Pity there's no good pics from more or less same angle.

6 minutes ago, eMeM said:

The databank has it at 17.69m https://www.starwars.com/databank/republic-attack-gunship

Yeaah that makes sense. Probably should tip people at Wookieepedia to correct that, the reference book which sites 28 meters or thereabouts is evidently too long but fits the LAAT/c pretty spot on. Guess it is a mix-up.

Of course, the same Databank uses 23 meters for the Y-wing (without specifying a model) so 🙄

On 4/5/2019 at 12:08 PM, Woorloog said:

The scale seems incorrect. Wookieepedia does indicate that the later Y-wing is about 20-23 meters long, but comparing the miniature to others, like the X-wing, indicates that it is scaled to be roughly 16 meters long... which is another cited length for the Y-wing.

At least that based on eyeballing it (with old Y-wing sculpt, is the new one larger?). Obviously it is not unreasonable that the longer length is actually accurate and that the miniature is on wrong scale.

Has the HWK-290 dispute taught you nothing? Ignore wook's scale.

5 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Has the HWK-290 dispute taught you nothing? Ignore wook's scale.

Its usually not the wiki that's at fault but them using RPGs as sources. Or at least the WOTC SW RPG, i think. Especially that. Though amusingly it looks like WOTC contradicted themselves in their own RPG supplements regarding the HWK-290 size (and Wookeepedia manages to use sizes, one for the Moldy Crow, one for the freighter class in general).

Usually other cited sizes seem to be much more appropriate, though there are exceptions.

5 hours ago, Woorloog said:

Its usually not the wiki that's at fault but them using RPGs as sources. Or at least the WOTC SW RPG, i think. Especially that. Though amusingly it looks like WOTC contradicted themselves in their own RPG supplements regarding the HWK-290 size (and Wookeepedia manages to use sizes, one for the Moldy Crow, one for the freighter class in general).

Usually other cited sizes seem to be much more appropriate, though there are exceptions.

It's why you've really gotta round it yourself. You can genuinely see the spots where the CW Y-Wings become the GCW ones. I've never understood when people dispute them being the same exact ships.

They're clearly intended to be, you know?

5 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

It's why you've really gotta round it yourself. You can genuinely see the spots where the CW Y-Wings become the GCW ones. I've never understood when people dispute them being the same exact ships.

They're clearly intended to be, you know?

You can also clearly see that the cockpit and engines are intended to be completely different, y'know.

It's normal for an aircraft to share the same frame throughout its development, look at P-51A and P-51H, MiG-21 and MiG-21 bis, F-16A and F-16V or countless others, even in Star Wars you wouldn't argue that TIE/ln and TIE/sf are the exact same ships despite /sf being just a repainted /ln with some extra bits glued on.

2 hours ago, eMeM said:

You can also clearly see that the cockpit and engines are intended to be completely different, y'know.

It's normal for an aircraft to share the same frame throughout its development, look at P-51A and P-51H, MiG-21 and MiG-21 bis, F-16A and F-16V or countless others, even in Star Wars you wouldn't argue that TIE/ln and TIE/sf are the exact same ships despite /sf being just a repainted /ln with some extra bits glued on.

Right but the Y-Wings are genuinely intended to be the same ones, unlike the TIE/FOs.

I really don't understand the claim the BTL-Bs are the same ships as the later Y-wings. They share similarities on the account of belonging to the same series but significant differences that makes them evidently different ships. Where does it come from anyway? That some old EU bits said Y-wings dated from the Clone Wars, the old EU that's no longer regarded canon, and even if it were canon, EU that treated them as different ships? Something someone in the production staff said?

One significant issue is having empty-weight armor plating in a spaceship just to form a shape, which is nonsense. I would assume the BTL-B houses more fuel and other stuff inside it in the middle parts, which would make it completely impossible for the BTL-A4 to be the same ship as the BTL-B. Even if the A4s were made from Bs (and i very much don't think they're), they'd be modified significantly enough to warrant new designation, in effect be new ships.

Further, there's considerable time between the Clone Wars and the Galactic Civil War. You can fit many models of Y-wings there. Maybe the later Y-wings were built toward the end of the Clone Wars or just after, but never accepted into service due to the Wars' end and the Empire preferring different style of ships.
Going by designations, there are probably two unmentioned models ("1" and "2" though these may have been prototypes, though "1" could be the B, leaving "2" unmentioned). A4 presumably follows S3, with letter changed for whatever reason ("strike" to "assault", with B standing for "bomber"?). Alternatively, A-series dates from the Clone Wars... except the Clones used the B model. And the current model is A4, which would be 4th in the A-series, probably not as old as the Clone Wars, or if it is, surely wasn't used by the clones on screen.

All in all, they're not the same ships. The only intent is to show that the Rebels use ships from a design line that's borderline antique by the time they're using them, out of necessity.

Not entirely sure, but after watching the Clone Wars TV series a while back, I can't recall any of the ships having deflector shields. Seemed to me every time they were hit it looked their hull took the impact.

Perhaps the Rebels added shields later, which would make sense, at least on the Y-Wing, to remove armour/aerodynamic panels since they won't be needed any longer.

EDIT: The republic Y-Wing could have no shields, but a healthy dose of hull.

16 minutes ago, OoALEJOoO said:

Not entirely sure, but after watching the Clone Wars TV series a while back, I can't recall any of the ships having deflector shields. Seemed to me every time they were hit it looked their hull took the impact.

Well, to be honest, most ships in Star Wars never seem to have shields even when they have those, largely thanks to limited CGI in older works. Nor do they seem to be be of any use even when doubled up... Newer works seem to go for consistency with old ones in this, Anakin's N-1 suddenly showing shield in that one scene being a weird exception.

Still, hull-only ship could make for an interesting change, especially if it comes with, say, better dial.

7 hours ago, Woorloog said:

I really don't understand the claim the BTL-Bs are the same ships as the later Y-wings. They share similarities on the account of belonging to the same series but significant differences that makes them evidently different ships. Where does it come from anyway? That some old EU bits said Y-wings dated from the Clone Wars, the old EU that's no longer regarded canon, and even if it were canon, EU that treated them as different ships? Something someone in the production staff said?

One significant issue is having empty-weight armor plating in a spaceship just to form a shape, which is nonsense. I would assume the BTL-B houses more fuel and other stuff inside it in the middle parts, which would make it completely impossible for the BTL-A4 to be the same ship as the BTL-B. Even if the A4s were made from Bs (and i very much don't think they're), they'd be modified significantly enough to warrant new designation, in effect be new ships.

Further, there's considerable time between the Clone Wars and the Galactic Civil War. You can fit many models of Y-wings there. Maybe the later Y-wings were built toward the end of the Clone Wars or just after, but never accepted into service due to the Wars' end and the Empire preferring different style of ships.
Going by designations, there are probably two unmentioned models ("1" and "2" though these may have been prototypes, though "1" could be the B, leaving "2" unmentioned). A4 presumably follows S3, with letter changed for whatever reason ("strike" to "assault", with B standing for "bomber"?). Alternatively, A-series dates from the Clone Wars... except the Clones used the B model. And the current model is A4, which would be 4th in the A-series, probably not as old as the Clone Wars, or if it is, surely wasn't used by the clones on screen.

All in all, they're not the same ships. The only intent is to show that the Rebels use ships from a design line that's borderline antique by the time they're using them, out of necessity.

Engines in the TCW model are completely different than in the OT, much longer and with the nozzle at the very end.

Rebels show an Y-wing model with OT engines and TCW cockpit, but with an OT unmanned turret, which makes it even more obvious that there had to be an intermediate model between B and A4:

Now, it's possible by the end of the war a new model was introduced and BTL-Bs were modernized to this intermediate version, and later Rebels updated them to A4, or maybe Rebels had the capabilities to covert B straight to A4, so technically they are the same ships, but it doesn't mean all Y-wings were initially BTL-B... so we can have the cake and eat it too.

22 minutes ago, eMeM said:

Rebels show an Y-wing model with OT engines and TCW cockpit, but with an OT unmanned turret, which makes it even more obvious that there had to be an intermediate model between B and A4:

Never seen that pic before, highly useful.

I figured that the Rebels Y-wings are A4s before Rebel modifications though, if we go by in-universe explanation (and IRL they'd just be a shortcut by modifying the TCW Y-wing to look mostly like OT Y-wing, ie just meant to be "close enough"). Like, they'd have modified the cockpit/turret section, possibly lifting that from S3s (since those are shown to be outwardly more or less identical to ANH Y-wings in a comic), while stripping rest of the decayed engine panels.

Though on closer look that might not be enough, since the Rebels model also has rounded parts in the rear-middle and other subtle differences. Had the S3 not been shown in the Poe comic , the Rebels model could've been declared the S3. Perfect fit for the intermediate model! (Though i suppose comic art could always be handwaved away as artistic expression.)

You know, the Rebels model is kinda weird. Specifically the engines. They look like they used to be entirely covered in plating... but why keep an empty space between the actual nozzle and the end-nozzle-thing (maneuvering vanes?)?

On 4/5/2019 at 12:55 PM, Woorloog said:

Say A4s were built roughly 5 years after the Clone Wars, they'd be old pieces of junk by the OT-era.

Except 20 years isn't all THAT big of a deal.

The last F-15C was built in 1985, and the type is still the backbone air-superiority fighter for the USAF, since there aren't enough F-22 Raptors to replace them. The B-52 is still one of the US's primary long-range strategic bombers, and the last one rolled off the assembly line in 1962 , with the type anticipated to still be in service into the 2060s!

On 4/5/2019 at 1:31 PM, Woorloog said:

Well, they're citing official sources, and those sources are probably based on the physical model or CGI model scales and measurements (especially for the BTL-B ).

Someone wasn't around for the "8km Super Star Destroyer" battle of the 90s.