22 hours ago, svelok said:

1. It matters quite a bit... the secret is, it's not actually a 6th Vulture, it's a 5th Vulture, because at least one probably dies before it gets to shoot. Wat + Kraken + 6x ESC Trade Feds is a popular list as a result.

I gave this a lot of thought and made some drastic changes to my list. I think it is much stronger now. I stripped a lot off of Wat because his strength is based on his buds, so by doing that I got another Vulture in there. Also I think Trecherous has the potential to really shine when there's this many bodies on the mat. I dropped one Vulture from i3 to i1 as well. So I have 2 blockers, 4 shooters, and a potential heavy hitter.

SWAT TEAM

(43) Wat Tambor [Belbullab-22 Starfighter]

(10) Kraken

(3) Treacherous

Points: 56

4x - (22) Separatist Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]

(4) Energy-Shell Charges

Points: 26

2X - (20) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]

Points: 20

Total points: 200

37 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

But I wanna fire my PEWPEW shells 😧

That’s why you bring 8 of them. Chances are you will get 6 shells off most games

Given that CIS has had pretty poor competitive results (aside from one build, double infiltrators), do we think the Hyena might be aggressively costed to help the faction out until the point adjustment?

4 minutes ago, svelok said:

Given that CIS has had pretty poor competitive results (aside from one build, double infiltrators), do we think the Hyena might be aggressively costed to help the faction out until the point adjustment?

I don't want it aggressively costed to the degree of "why take vultures anyway" occurs. Hopefully they are costed in a way that makes us think "huh, maybe they are notching vultures down at the points update." I guess similar to the RZ2 AWing cost (not actual cost, but value/cost ratio) we saw in Resistance which I guess depending on your definition of "aggressive" is what I'd like.

10 minutes ago, RStan said:

I don't want it aggressively costed to the degree of "why take vultures anyway" occurs. Hopefully they are costed in a way that makes us think "huh, maybe they are notching vultures down at the points update." I guess similar to the RZ2 AWing cost (not actual cost, but value/cost ratio) we saw in Resistance which I guess depending on your definition of "aggressive" is what I'd like.

Part of the nature of CIS is small point differences matter because they're multiplied... Separatist Drones are 2 points more, but it's a difficult decision because that 2 points becomes 12 points across an entire list.

If we can fit Wat with Kraken and 5x ESC Hyenas, which would mean 25 point i1s, is that just obviously better than fielding Vultures? (I think so?)

And then say Vultures drop to 17 points, so you could run Krak-Wat + 7 ESC Vultures. Would that...

1. Be enough to make the build viable in Hyperspace? (Maybe?) In extended? (I don't think so? At least, not without major nerfs to the field.)

2. Be a tossup between that and Wat + 5 Hyenas? (Maybe? If Wat w/ Kraken went down 3 points on net, you could fit Wat + 3 + 3?)

Dunno about Hyena pricing, but I doubt it'll replace Vultures unless it has a torp slot (dunno if it does, only seen plasma coming with the n1)

reason being vultures can already get charged shells, will probably be cheaper, and honestly five hull doesn't last much longer anyway. Plus, in sharing networked calculations, it'll be a decent idea to mix the two.

if we're going about buffing vultures, already the cheapest in the game, I'd probably knock down the cost of ECS. They don't have access to a howlie option and kraken is limited, so ECS and linked calculations is how they distinguish themselves

9 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Dunno about Hyena pricing, but I doubt it'll replace Vultures unless it has a torp slot (dunno if it does, only seen plasma coming with the n1)

reason being vultures can already get charged shells, will probably be cheaper, and honestly five hull doesn't last much longer anyway. Plus, in sharing networked calculations, it'll be a decent idea to mix the two.

if we're going about buffing vultures, already the cheapest in the game, I'd probably knock down the cost of ECS. They don't have access to a howlie option and kraken is limited, so ECS and linked calculations is how they distinguish themselves

They have torps to. Plasma Torps right hand spread, 4th from bottom.

Pricing wise bare I think they're going to start at 27-28 points for the I1 taking into account init, action bar and dial in comparison to the TIE/Sa Bomber's cheapest option bare.

2 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

They have torps to. Plasma Torps right hand spread, 4th from bottom.

Pricing wise bare I think they're going to start at 27-28 points for the I1 taking into account init, action bar and dial in comparison to the TIE/Sa Bomber's cheapest option bare.

the inclusion of barrage rockets is kinda weird init? how're they getting that focus?

Just now, ficklegreendice said:

the inclusion of barrage rockets is kinda weird init? how're they getting that focus?

**** if I know... The new Tac Relay they come with maybe?

Just now, ficklegreendice said:

the inclusion of barrage rockets is kinda weird init? how're they getting that focus?

Either dealing with the tactical relay that hasn't been shown yet or it's a similar case to the afterburners in the fang expansion.

17 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

the inclusion of barrage rockets is kinda weird init? how're they getting that focus?

I’m pretty sure the Barrage Rockets are there because of the ability of the I1 unique. Hyena’s should start at 25 base. Vultures should come down a couple across the board with a sizable decrease in the uniques. Also Grappling Struts should be 1 point. Shells many need to go up to 5 though

34 minutes ago, Caduceus01 said:

I’m pretty sure the Barrage Rockets are there because of the ability of the I1 unique.

This! It's almost 100% sure that this is the reason. Though it gives us interesting info, in that it has 2 missile slots (kraken + ESC + discord missile maybe? )

1 hour ago, DarthSempai said:

This! It's almost 100% sure that this is the reason. Though it gives us interesting info, in that it has 2 missile slots (kraken + ESC + discord missile maybe? )

I’m more excited about a hyena with ESC, kraken and DRK-1 probes with hopefully 6 ESC vultures. 7 three dice double modded attacks should help the Vultures out a lot

2 minutes ago, Caduceus01 said:

I’m more excited about a hyena with ESC, kraken and DRK-1 probes with hopefully 6 ESC vultures. 7 three dice double modded attacks should help the Vultures out a lot

Or the new Plasma Torpedoes on the Hyenas sound really good too. Perhaps few Plasma Torps Hyenas to take down the shields so ESC Vultures can utilise the ESC crit ability to it's fullest.

3 minutes ago, Pink_Viking said:

Or the new Plasma Torpedoes on the Hyenas sound really good too. Perhaps few Plasma Torps Hyenas to take down the shields so ESC Vultures can utilise the ESC crit ability to it's fullest.

I had thought about that as well but if you want 7 ships I expect Plasmas to be to expensive with how Vultures are currently priced. I think Plasmas will be in the 7-9 point range at least

Speaking of torps...

DRK-1 vs Passive Sensors Hyenas? Is there a point cost that tips your preference?

22 minutes ago, svelok said:

Speaking of torps...

DRK-1 vs Passive Sensors Hyenas? Is there a point cost that tips your preference?

Point cost while being a decent factor in the decision of which to take, it is a big deal when DRK probes still telegraph which target you're going after and for some of the Hyenas (if you have multiple in your list) may not have that ship in arc if it's a solid repositioning ace so Passive Sensors allow the Hyena to pick the target when it activates. Passive Hyenas are just a bit more required to have other Calc holding Vultures nearby so it has mods for eyes both on offense and defense.

Interesting potential is ESC and Adv Proton Torps on the Baktoid Prototypes that can ignore lock restriction if a (another?) ship has a calc with network calc in range 1 of the targeted ship. Range 2-3 3 dice from ESC (no lock required) and range 1 5 dice Adv Proto as long as it's ability is fulfilled. Not DRKs or Passive Sensors needed just swarm them with Vultures to be range 1.

37 minutes ago, svelok said:

Speaking of torps...

DRK-1 vs Passive Sensors Hyenas? Is there a point cost that tips your preference?

I think a lot of that will depend on how many other ships you have in the list. DRK is better action economy but PS guarantees you get munitions off if anything is in arc. They will both have a place depending on list

20 minutes ago, RStan said:

Interesting potential is ESC and Adv Proton Torps on the Baktoid Prototypes that can ignore lock restriction if a (another?) ship has a calc with network calc in range 1 of the targeted ship. Range 2-3 3 dice from ESC (no lock required) and range 1 5 dice Adv Proto as long as it's ability is fulfilled. Not DRKs or Passive Sensors needed just swarm them with Vultures to be range 1.

4 minutes ago, Caduceus01 said:

I think a lot of that will depend on how many other ships you have in the list. DRK is better action economy but PS guarantees you get munitions off if anything is in arc. They will both have a place depending on list

Passive Sensors can also just default to a Calculate option. Pas Sens + APTs + ESC could let you set up APT shots, or just switch over to ESC if nothing is in range.

Eesh you guys really underestimate Vultures. I'll admit there are several fairly meta builds that would probably tear them apart, but those are overpowered against most things, so that shouldn't be the measuring stick.

Idk, it can be tiring sure, but you guys are making me want to fly 8 again tomorrow (Hyperspace Trial) just to prove that they don't need Maul 😂

We still haven't seen what this (double?) missile upgrade from the Hyena preview spread does:

24 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

Eesh you guys really underestimate Vultures. I'll admit there are several fairly meta builds that would probably tear them apart, but those are overpowered against most things, so that shouldn't be the measuring stick.

Idk, it can be tiring sure, but you guys are making me want to fly 8 again tomorrow (Hyperspace Trial) just to prove that they don't need Maul 😂

I flew 8 at a Hyperspace trail and went 4-2 so I’m not underestimating them. I just know their limitations. They are great jousters but pretty terrible against high agility aces and super vulnerable to variance.

1 hour ago, svelok said:

Speaking of torps...

DRK-1 vs Passive Sensors Hyenas? Is there a point cost that tips your preference?

Drk-1 if not lots of hyenas

Sensors if lots of hyenas (with kraken) for immidiate big torp fun

Doneso

42 minutes ago, Transmogrifier said:

We still haven't seen what this (double?) missile upgrade from the Hyena preview spread does:

Unless they changed the art on that, I assumed that was the Electro-Proton Bomb originally thinking it was missile + bomb slot. That's interesting...didn't click with me until just now that we 100% don't know what that is.

50 minutes ago, Caduceus01 said:

I flew 8 at a Hyperspace trail and went 4-2 so I’m not underestimating them. I just know their limitations. They are great jousters but pretty terrible against high agility aces and super vulnerable to variance.

It's also problematic to have a jousting squad that is not the best jousting squad... TIE swarms are spooky.

8 minutes ago, RStan said:

I assumed that was the Electro-Proton Bomb originally thinking it was missile + bomb slot.

Oh ****, me too, I also totally forgot. What the **** is that art supposed to be, then? I can't tell what's meant to be going on behind the Y-Wings. Preview when?