1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:Ouch that's quite a mistake!
Sear is there to make you scary even in absence of the lovely ESC (esp since it's easier to get bullseye at close range). Imagine if it stacked!
It’s on stream happening at the UK SOS and it was in the top cut so I assume no one called him on it all day.
Dose any one considered swaping one ESC for Ion Pulse Missiles on one of the Drones??? It allows to lock one enemy ship in a killbox...
59 minutes ago, Green Squadron 3 said:Dose any one considered swaping one ESC for Ion Pulse Missiles on one of the Drones??? It allows to lock one enemy ship in a killbox...
ESCs give you a lot of flexibility the Lock rockets do not (even with the Dork Probes).
Plus IPMs kinda suck
You need to do two uncanceled hits (out of your 3 Reds) to ion a small base ship
Infinetly better off with an ion torp off your probe carrying 'yena l, or just more ESCs
Edited by ficklegreendiceTried 3 Ion Missiles Vultures + a Sithie and DFS-311 against the Lando + Arvil + Y-Wexley build. The Ion Missiles were pathetic - threw a lot of them at Lando and only managed to Ionize him once an entire game.
(Didn't use them on Arvil because he exposed him and I maanged to kill him with my initial salvo; Y-Wexley remained too far from me during 3 turns).
Ion Torpedoes might be better, but... why not just kill them anyway?
right thanks for the feedback
1 hour ago, Vector Strike said:Ion Torpedoes might be better, but... why not just kill them anyway?
Truly, an individual after my own heart. My advice to any CIS player right now: Buy violence, not gimmicks. Violence always works.
Yeah, that's basically the thing with ions
Control is swanky, but there's also no control quite like death
Now the ion torp sorta has a place because it's four dice at only six points despite the damage cap (still useful for hitting through greens). Given the next four die weapon costs SEVEN more points, while a three die secondary only costs 1-2 more than IPM, there's an argument for ion torps existing
But if you have enough volume of fire to alpha a ship to death in one round, might as well augment that with MOAR DAHMAGE
So, if you're super bored of ESC I don't think you're shooting yourself in the foot by playing a hyena with ion torps instead (provided it's the drone carrier). But it's still kinda impossible to overstate how swanky ESCs are
Edit: untested, unsubstantiated theory time!
It's possible ion torp stock will rise with the amount of "elite" pilots CiS gets access to. It's currently a really shallow pool, but who knows? Maybe one day we'll see more than "press ESC to win"
In the meantime, could be fun:
Grievous Gathering
(26) Techno Union Bomber [Hyena-class Droid Bomber]
(1) Landing Struts
(6) Ion Torpedoes
(5) DRK-1 Probe Droids
Points: 38
(30) DBS-404 [Hyena-class Droid Bomber]
(1) Landing Struts
(5) Energy-Shell Charges
Points: 36
(19) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(5) Energy-Shell Charges
Points: 24
(19) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(5) Energy-Shell Charges
Points: 24
(19) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(5) Energy-Shell Charges
Points: 24
(44) General Grievous [Belbullab-22 Starfighter]
(6) Soulless One
(4) Impervium Plating
Points: 54
Total points: 200
Edited by ficklegreendiceWell it is decided i will take the Seps to the Euros 😁 Will take drone swarm 😁
Goals:
This wasn't possible before wave 4, so lets explore a bit.
Also, thanks @MasterShake2 for the writeup on the gencon list , I disagree with some of these listbuilding perspectives but that's the whole point of discussing lists!
DBM Baktoid, Concussion Baktoid, ESC/DRK1 Techno, 4x ESC Trade Fed
So this ticks both boxes. Not sure how many people bought 3 or more Hyenas, but I did, and I've been focused on Sear swarms for a hot minute, so let's take a break and play around.
Yeah yeah, technically Concussion+DBM could theoretically do some stupid **** like put a splash crit damage onto an entire TIE swarm and then concussion to reapply them and flip a bunch of directs and just delete it, but that's some stupid 0.000001% scenario and not the goal. Don't get distracted by it.
Instead, we're using Baktroids for target flexibility (vultures lock one target, baktoids lock another and can shoot at either). DBM itself is pretty good here (its like having a 3.5 dice missile) but we're just using it for single target damage (it splashes onto the original target!) unless the opponent just hands us more for free. Concussion missiles we're taking as energy shells that get more charges, but we can try to hold it for last when relevant if the rest of the list can put cards down first for bonus upside. One extra point for 2 extra ESC charges is pretty value, when you can just ignore the requirement. Third hyena is pretty straightforward, he gets to equip DRK-1 and then joins the Vultures in throwing energy shells at things.
After the opening, its not too different from other ESC swarmy lists, although try not to blow yourself up with concussion missiles. Thoughts?
Bonus episode:
This one's just for fun - 7ship Sear list with TA-175, 3x Precise Hunters and 3x Discord Seppies. No damage missiles, just going for range one bullseye shots to calc, reroll, and crack shot, while herding people with buzz droids and init-killing i2 stuff.
1 minute ago, svelok said:Bonus episode:
This one's just for fun - 7ship Sear list with TA-175, 3x Precise Hunters and 3x Discord Seppies. No damage missiles, just going for range one bullseye shots to calc, reroll, and crack shot, while herding people with buzz droids and init-killing i2 stuff.
I flew something similar and kinda liked it.
Wat with TA-175, 3 Hunters (strusts), 3 ESC Seps (struts). The awkward thing was for one of the games I flew it, I was against Jess Pava and three Reds, so when I attacked first, TA-175 couldn't really help me too much. I think Precise Hunters are a decent pick in general because of their cheapness ; cheaper than an ESC Trade Fed droid, but with Init 3 and a decent-enough pilot ability.
Anyhow, Discord might be better than ESC. Personally, I'd cut Impervium (it's decent, but Soulless might be enough) for Struts for everyone. Struts always seem so handy, and it really helps the Rogers make use of their oddball dials.
13 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:Wat with TA-175, 3 Hunters (strusts), 3 ESC Seps (struts). The awkward thing was for one of the games I flew it, I was against Jess Pava and three Reds, so when I attacked first, TA-175 couldn't really help me too much.
Sear is the key, here - we didn't not bring ESC just to not do damage. We're going for crack shot-ing stuff.
14 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:I think Precise Hunters are a decent pick in general because of their cheapness ;
I agree, exclusively within the context of Sear+175. I don't rate Hunters outside of that, they have considerably lower damage output than an ESC TFD shot, and have a more restrictive ability.
But when you're going for range 1 bullseyes anyways, and you're bringing i3s anyways, it's not a bad use of points. Three r1 dice with calcs rolls one blank more often than it doesn't, 3 dice crackshot hurts.
14 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:Personally, I'd cut Impervium (it's decent, but Soulless might be enough) for Struts for everyone. Struts always seem so handy, and it really helps the Rogers make use of their oddball dials.
Sure, impervium is marginal. I'm not a huge proponent of struts in general so that's just my preference.
1 hour ago, svelok said:I agree, exclusively within the context of Sear+175. I don't rate Hunters outside of that, they have considerably lower damage output than an ESC TFD shot, and have a more restrictive ability.
But when you're going for range 1 bullseyes anyways, and you're bringing i3s anyways, it's not a bad use of points. Three r1 dice with calcs rolls one blank more often than it doesn't, 3 dice crackshot hurts.
As I see it, ESC Trade Feds have an extra die once at long range, but Hunters have a reroll (almost as good as an extra die) at close-range, potentially more than once. It just seems decent once a game descends into a scrum, where ESC can't really be used anymore. I can see myself using them even without Sear, but Sear does seem probably better than Wat. Anyhow, that's why my list had a mix of ESC and Hunters. Some first strike, some follow-up.
//
Totally fair on the Struts.
"Ay, so it always is, I believe. One man's ways may be as good as another's, but we all like our own best." Jane Austen - Persuasion
Edited by theBitterFig3 hours ago, svelok said:This one's just for fun - 7ship Sear list with TA-175, 3x Precise Hunters and 3x Discord Seppies. No damage missiles, just going for range one bullseye shots to calc, reroll, and crack shot, while herding people with buzz droids and init-killing i2 stuff.
There's a problem with I3 droids and TA-175 against I1-I3 ships, when they kill your ships, you do not get any calculate tokens for offense.
Edited by Boreas MunTonight is the first game night after GenCon. I really hope to get a game in with my Hyenas, but worry Flight Group Alpha is going to take over.
7 hours ago, svelok said:Goals:
- 7x 3-dice attacks
- With DRK-1 setup for full mods
This wasn't possible before wave 4, so lets explore a bit.
Also, thanks @MasterShake2 for the writeup on the gencon list , I disagree with some of these listbuilding perspectives but that's the whole point of discussing lists!
DBM Baktoid, Concussion Baktoid, ESC/DRK1 Techno, 4x ESC Trade Fed
It's not bad, but I'd really want to squeeze some struts in. Adds a lot of versatility, especially when running 7 ship lists.
11 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:
It's not bad, but I'd really want to squeeze some struts in. Adds a lot of versatility, especially when running 7 ship lists.
Agree with the struts, they really open up the dail for the droids and makes it so much harder for you opponent to read your moves.
I'm thinking about trying the following list:
Look sir, droids!
(52) 0-66 [Sith Infiltrator]
(0) Jamming Beam
(3) General Grievous
(5) TA-175
(5) DRK-1 Probe Droids
Points: 65
(19) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(1) Grappling Struts
Points: 20
(19) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(1) Grappling Struts
Points: 20
(19) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(1) Grappling Struts
Points: 20
(19) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(1) Grappling Struts
Points: 20
(19) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(1) Grappling Struts
Points: 20
(28) Baktoid Prototype [Hyena-class Droid Bomber]
(6) Diamond-Boron Missiles
(1) Landing Struts
Points: 35
Total points: 200
Alternatively exchanging the baktoid for some DBS-404 shenanigans, but that means changing some pieces, and I think that the versatility that 0-66 offers (being able to barrel roll for arc after getting shot at or taking a Target lock to open up the baktoid's options) is more valuable. The jamming beam might become important after I've run into a lot of reinforcing ships, allowing the swarm to punch through a bit more damage.
Pew pew
(30) DBS-404 [Hyena-class Droid Bomber]
(6) Adv. Proton Torpedoes
Points: 36
(51) Dark Courier [Sith Infiltrator]
(0) Jamming Beam
(3) General Grievous
(5) TA-175
(5) DRK-1 Probe Droids
Points: 64
(19) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(1) Grappling Struts
Points: 20
(19) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(1) Grappling Struts
Points: 20
(19) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(1) Grappling Struts
Points: 20
(19) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(1) Grappling Struts
Points: 20
(19) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(1) Grappling Struts
Points: 20
Total points: 200
One question I have about the DRK-1 Probe Droids: how are you guys getting them out so the vultures have a spare round to get the lock? Are you hanging the Vultures back a lot, sacrificing the carrier to get them out ahead of time etc? Whenever I tested them out I always found that the Vultures just didn't have the time to actually make use of them.
10 minutes ago, __underscore__ said:One question I have about the DRK-1 Probe Droids: how are you guys getting them out so the vultures have a spare round to get the lock? Are you hanging the Vultures back a lot, sacrificing the carrier to get them out ahead of time etc? Whenever I tested them out I always found that the Vultures just didn't have the time to actually make use of them.
I've had that problem too, and an opponent can often deny you the advantage of double mods by rushing you. This will however hopefully stress them and disturb their own plan. The ways that I've found to try to get the effect from the drk's are:
•Slow roll with hard 1's and barrel rolls
•Put stones between you and the opponent, denying them the possibility to do 5-straights to rush you and generally breaking up their formation
•Be prepared to counter-rush their rush. You might not have double mods, but you may be able to get a local 2-1 advantage, catching a part of the enemy force.
35 minutes ago, Turcopolier said:•Be prepared to counter-rush their rush. You might not have double mods, but you may be able to get a local 2-1 advantage, catching a part of the enemy force.
To be fair, this was usually what happened. As the Vultures were hanging back anyway they were actually able to get a decent ranged engagement. The bigger issue at the time was that I had a Infiltrator as the Probe deployer which kind a left them out to dry a bit, costing a decent chunk of my forces. I should really try with a Hyena and see if the small base helps.
2 hours ago, __underscore__ said:One question I have about the DRK-1 Probe Droids: how are you guys getting them out so the vultures have a spare round to get the lock? Are you hanging the Vultures back a lot, sacrificing the carrier to get them out ahead of time etc? Whenever I tested them out I always found that the Vultures just didn't have the time to actually make use of them.
Deploy facing sideways with the Dork carrier in the middle facing towards the enemy. Dork carrier does a K-turn or Tallon roll, droids just run for a turn, then Dork carrier hard 2's to join them.
Rest of the formation was facing to the right, but he deployed there, so they just K-turned, then blue straighted next turn while locking.
Edited by MasterShake2Somebody talk me out of this.
Pro TUBs (200/200) =================
Hyena Bomber: Techno Union Bomber (26 + 18) + Proton Torpedoes (13) + DRK-1 Probe Droids (5)
Hyena Bomber: Techno Union Bomber (26 + 13) + Proton Torpedoes (13)
Hyena Bomber: Techno Union Bomber (26 + 13) + Proton Torpedoes (13)
Hyena Bomber: Techno Union Bomber (26 + 13) + Proton Torpedoes (13)
Hyena Bomber: Techno Union Bomber (26 + 13) + Proton Torpedoes (13)
1 hour ago, DXCrazytrain said:Somebody talk me out of this.
Pro TUBs (200/200) =================
Hyena Bomber: Techno Union Bomber (26 + 18) + Proton Torpedoes (13) + DRK-1 Probe Droids (5)
Hyena Bomber: Techno Union Bomber (26 + 13) + Proton Torpedoes (13)
Hyena Bomber: Techno Union Bomber (26 + 13) + Proton Torpedoes (13)
Hyena Bomber: Techno Union Bomber (26 + 13) + Proton Torpedoes (13)
Hyena Bomber: Techno Union Bomber (26 + 13) + Proton Torpedoes (13)
Was wondering when that would show up in this thread...
3 hours ago, DXCrazytrain said:Somebody talk me out of this.
Pro TUBs (200/200) =================
Hyena Bomber: Techno Union Bomber (26 + 18) + Proton Torpedoes (13) + DRK-1 Probe Droids (5)
Hyena Bomber: Techno Union Bomber (26 + 13) + Proton Torpedoes (13)
Hyena Bomber: Techno Union Bomber (26 + 13) + Proton Torpedoes (13)
Hyena Bomber: Techno Union Bomber (26 + 13) + Proton Torpedoes (13)
Hyena Bomber: Techno Union Bomber (26 + 13) + Proton Torpedoes (13)
Drop prots to plasmas and add 5 struts + 3 Discords to clog lanes?
I played my first game against CIS over the weekend. (yeah, i don't get around to playing nearly enough)
Opponent played Wat with title. That little guy hit much harder than I expected, actually putting some fear into my IG-88.
And the Hyenas also stayed on the table longer than I expected.
So conclusion: Sep ships performed better in reality than it looked to me on paper.
Edited by Bort