Alright, I looked into this a bit with some help discussing and researching from peers.

"After you execute a maneuver, you may gain 1 tractor token to perform a rotate action."

Baseline, a ship cannot perform actions while stressed unless an upgrade card or ability explicitly states being able to while stressed. Nantex ship ability doesn't explicitly say the rotate action can be taken while stressed, therefore, to perform the rotate action, it must not be stressed.

Next, under "Paying Costs" in the rules reference it says "A ship can pay a cost for an effect only if the effect can be resolved." That means that the Nantex CANNOT gain a tractor token while it is stressed because it cannot complete the perform of a rotate action from the ship being stressed restriction. The cost being "gain 1 tractor token" and the effect needing to resolved being "perform a rotate action." The keyword in the "you may gain 1 tractor token to perform a rotate action" is TO as it's not a may type that would make it optional allowing the ability to just gain a tractor token to give you an option of performing a rotate. It has to be able to perform a rotate action to be able to gain the tractor token.

22 minutes ago, RStan said:

Alright, I looked into this a bit with some help discussing and researching from peers.

"After you execute a maneuver, you may gain 1 tractor token to perform a rotate action."

Baseline, a ship cannot perform actions while stressed unless an upgrade card or ability explicitly states being able to while stressed. Nantex ship ability doesn't explicitly say the rotate action can be taken while stressed, therefore, to perform the rotate action, it must not be stressed.

Next, under "Paying Costs" in the rules reference it says "A ship can pay a cost for an effect only if the effect can be resolved." That means that the Nantex CANNOT gain a tractor token while it is stressed because it cannot complete the perform of a rotate action from the ship being stressed restriction. The cost being "gain 1 tractor token" and the effect needing to resolved being "perform a rotate action." The keyword in the "you may gain 1 tractor token to perform a rotate action" is TO as it's not a may type that would make it optional allowing the ability to just gain a tractor token to give you an option of performing a rotate. It has to be able to perform a rotate action to be able to gain the tractor token.

🤨 Slightly confused that this was even a question, though I guess the interaction is new enough that some confusion as to how it functions is to be expected. Nice break down on the ability.

Also when you rotate you have to pick a different arc to the one you're currently using, which might also make it tricky to pull off every now and then.

44 minutes ago, __underscore__ said:

Also when you rotate you have to pick a different arc to the one you're currently using, which might also make it tricky to pull off every now and then.

Yeah this is super relevant, especially for Ensnare.

SA is seeming more and more like a thinker's faction. Ya they can be kept simple, but they really reward someone who can make the most of their quirks through careful but adaptive planning. Might also be their competitive stumbling block since viable lists lean strongly towards simplicity.

2 hours ago, RStan said:

under  "Paying Costs" in the rules reference it says "A ship c   an pay a cost for an effect only if the effect can be r   eso  lved  .   "

That’s all I wasn’t entirely sure of. 👍

17 hours ago, SpiderMana said:

Any reasoning or precedent behind this statement? Or you’re just guessing that’s how they’ll rule it?

Because the way it’s worded. It says you may gain a tractor token to perform the rotate action and since you can’t perform the action while stressed you can’t pay the cost. If the rotate action was a may then you would be able to do it while stressed. It would be great if you could do it while stressed but I don’t think it’s going to work that way.

I should really refresh before replying lol.

Is anyone else thinking the Nantex may end up with 2 Takent slots? There are 5 different Talents in the spread so it would kind of make sense for them to be able to equip more than 1. Lowest generic will probably have one like the A-wings

On 4/15/2019 at 8:53 AM, __underscore__ said:

I ended up going 4-2 with this one, which I'm pretty happy with. There was one game I made a serious error which cost me the game, the other one was Born/Lulo/Vennie which I made a bit of an mistake but it could've still done either way.

First couple of games were some variation on U-Wings and friends, which my list kinda eats for breakfast.

Dooku crew did a lot of work though, I can't count the number of times he turned a Hit/Focus/Blank into Hit/Hit/Crit for basically 2 force. Hate is amazing and Grevious is a no brainer. Though generally people didn't shoot Maul that much as they had some concerns about the mini-swarm in front of him. Most of my games were won on points that way.

Though it has to be said that most of my opponents hadn't played much against Separatists, so it remains to be seen whether that affects things. Either way, I was happy with the list.

Gonna give this list a try tonight. Seems a decent list

any advice for flying it?

16 minutes ago, nurglez said:

Gonna give this list a try tonight. Seems a decent list

any advice for flying it?

Gas clouds are kinda abusive combined with Force (especially on a large base) and Network Calculations, so I took 3 of them. No regrets there. So when it's your turn to place obstacles, keep those rocks out of the middle as much as possible.

Maul is a beast but not invincible, the first few times practice games I gave him up a bit too much and he got nuked. So for the Open I always deployed him in the corner and the droids slightly into the centre to screen him. A lot of the time during the first round of combat he was just providing Dooku support to the Energy missiles then coming in to smash face after (if they set up opposite and try to joust they're probably wrong).

Fire the missiles at what you can, any droid with them left over after the first round of combat is going to be the main target. During that first round only use the calculates on defence if you have no other option and I'd question spending someone else's either, depends on the situation.

Droids have a big initial impact and a real deep falloff. So don't get excited after the first round of combat.

Once your swarm splits/gets killed off having the droids pair off is good if you can manage it. One can k turn as the other one flies over them to get out of range and gain a calculate, that kind of thing. It's a fun aspect to the faction.

7 hours ago, __underscore__ said:

Gas clouds are kinda abusive combined with Force (especially on a large base) and Network Calculations, so I took 3 of them. No regrets there. So when it's your turn to place obstacles, keep those rocks out of the middle as much as possible.

Seems like an invitation for disaster? Lots of aces can leverage gas clouds with more mobility than the Infiltrator or Vultures have.

2 minutes ago, svelok said:

Seems like an invitation for disaster? Lots of aces can leverage gas clouds with more mobility than the Infiltrator or Vultures have.

There's not many aces that can forego an action so readily. Hate keeps Maul topped up and the Vultures have their buddies to feed them tokens - the gas clouds aren't really big enough for more than 1 to go over. Also with the Infiltrator being a bit of a clunker to turn around, having the space to flip and skip an action you were going to be stressed for anyway is great for keeping up the offensive output of the list.

Basically you might be right, but I'm pretty confident that the amount I get to exploit from the gas clouds is more than my opponent can get from them.

Had 2 casual games and won them both! (3 jedi knights and Mace, and Feroph, Vermeil and Duchess) That Maul build is pretty good. Gonna take it to a small HS event on Saturday.

Took _Underscore_'s maul and 5 esc vultures to a 14 person event yesterday, went 3-1 finishing 4th, and won a servants of strife kit (my 3rd) so guess i'll be trying out 8 vultures soon

1 hour ago, nurglez said:

Took _Underscore_'s maul and 5 esc vultures to a 14 person event yesterday, went 3-1 finishing 4th, and won a servants of strife kit (my 3rd) so guess i'll be trying out 8 vultures soon

Nice, I'd love to hear more about what you faced and how it went. I have event coming up on the next Saturday and I'm bringing my Seps.

Yes please. I'm going Separatist too but haven't had a real chance to play them yet. Any practical advice would be appreciated.

On 4/18/2019 at 9:52 AM, __underscore__ said:

Gas clouds are kinda abusive combined with Force (especially on a large base) and Network Calculations, so I took 3 of them. No regrets there. So when it's your turn to place obstacles, keep those rocks out of the middle as much as possible.

Maul is a beast but not invincible, the first few times practice games I gave him up a bit too much and he got nuked. So for the Open I always deployed him in the corner and the droids slightly into the centre to screen him. A lot of the time during the first round of combat he was just providing Dooku support to the Energy missiles then coming in to smash face after (if they set up opposite and try to joust they're probably wrong).

Fire the missiles at what you can, any droid with them left over after the first round of combat is going to be the main target. During that first round only use the calculates on defence if you have no other option and I'd question spending someone else's either, depends on the situation.

Droids have a big initial impact and a real deep falloff. So don't get excited after the first round of combat.

Once your swarm splits/gets killed off having the droids pair off is good if you can manage it. One can k turn as the other one flies over them to get out of range and gain a calculate, that kind of thing. It's a fun aspect to the faction.

This advice is very good

game 1 was vs fat Han and Wedge, met in the middle and wedge didnt enjoy the swarm, got reduced to 1 hull and died the following turn, managed to chase Han into a corner (thank god Kanan isnt HS legal). 200-88

game 2 was vs kath and 5 binayres, i won initiative and took it, meaning i could move without worry of being blocked. Focused down the Zs first then hammered Kath. 200-84

Game 3 was vs boba, terry and lando (escape craft). Took out terry and lando for a few droids and a lot of damage on Maul, but wasnt able yo reform the swarm properly and they got picked off. 90-176

Game 4 was vs Mace and 4 torrents with clusters. Managed to kill Mace first engagement, then slowly took down the torrents. Game ended with 1 torrent running for it while maul was shieldless and each vulture had taken 1 damage.168-0

This Maul build really doesnt mind going over gas clouds or bumping, with 4 force and dooku he hits pretty hard. However once he runs low he is way more reliant on his actions, and if your opponent isnt shooting him he wont do much (but also denies 80 points). I do also wanna try out Maul, hate, grevious, scimitar title and k2-b4, as that is also 80 points and gives a slightly different style (flew it as my first list with Separatists but im better with droids now).

5 droids seems to be a nice sweet spot. They are quite tricky to fly, especially without being able to bank when stressed and clear it. I rarely reloaded my esc shells, thouhh im not the best at reforming a swarm, as they really need to be able to share their calculates to threaten certain ships. Networked and calculates are both better and worse then focus, its quite weird.

8 droids is the next list i wanna try, followed by 6 and a bellyrub.

If terms of lists I've had issues against - nimble aces can definitely be an issue. If Guri is in my opponents list I find that all they need to do is take a half decent trade with whatever else they have and she can do the rest. S ame can go for some of the stuff Imperials can put out there.

I haven't played against Kylo either but I can imagine he would have the same kind of issues.

3 minutes ago, __underscore__ said:

If terms of lists I've had issues against - nimble aces can definitely be an issue. If Guri is in my opponents list I find that all they need to do is take a half decent trade with whatever else they have and she can do the rest. S ame can go for some of the stuff Imperials can put out there.

I haven't played against Kylo either but I can imagine he would have the same kind of issues.

Guri can Guri, but Scum doesn't really have a lot to bring to bear that can joust, so it's probably just a game?

First Order on the other hand has Tavson, who is happy to shrug off a couple (dozen) Vulture attacks.

4 hours ago, svelok said:

Guri can Guri, but Scum doesn't really have a lot to bring to bear that can joust, so it's probably just a game?

First Order on the other hand has Tavson, who is happy to shrug off a couple (dozen) Vulture attacks.

Yeah, the rest of Scum is usually fine. Fangs can joust but you should be able to catch them at range 2 of something (though I haven't played against the 4). It's just Guri that's a pretty consistent game over.

But yeah, Tavson is a tough one to chew through, he took pretty much 3 or 4 full rounds of concentrated fire to take down. I didn't find it too bad alongside QD as she's pretty simple to pin down but with Kylo I don't feel too confident.

Tavson, QD and Kylo all fit together and can cause a lot of problems for separatists. Tavson shrugs off damage with reinforce and WILL kill (or come **** close) a vulture each shot in arc when he’s fully modifying, especially at R1. Scary.

On 4/21/2019 at 2:48 PM, dsul413 said:

Tavson, QD and Kylo all fit together and can cause a lot of problems for separatists.

Man, do they. First Order's Squad of Legend is probably the roughest matchup around for any Vulture-based list. Tavson laughs at energy shells, Quickdraw will kill two vultures per turn if you let her, and Kylo will run around killing one Vulture per shot while shrugging off the one or two incidental shots you throw at him with 3 agi + force.

Meanwhile, the list's entire modus operandi is to shove Tavson into a sacrificial location to take 2-4 shots and then die, but with Vultures that 2-4 is more like 6-8 and each of those 2-4 attacks is just a spot of variance to pop a fresh vulture.

I wonder why nobody mentions Infiltrator with the tractor beam . It should be an ideal platform to carry this unpopular thing paired with a bunch or vultures. In theory it could help with the issue of them not having enough calculate tokens for offense after spending bunch to stay alive and also getting potential bullseye mechanics to work by moving your opponent. (Precise hunters, TV-94 or Haor Challs)

I like Maul with tractor beam. He can take his shot with the T-beam to set up the Vultures and shoot at another target too.

Dear Vultures: I < 3 U

... but I wish you were able to win events 🤔

None Vultures to be found in the top cut of either system open this weekend.