I hate swarm flying, but I like the infiltrators, so im gonna stick with one or two infiltrators and then a couple supports droids or belbasaurs. Dooku is both fun and powerful. Favorite pilot by far between the two new factions

Oh wow. Okay, this thread blew up.

Niiiiice!

4 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Oh wow. Okay, this thread blew up.

Niiiiice!

Roger Roger

Whether ESC is 'worth it' or not has no impact whatsoever on the maths that it's the worst red dice in the game. Do t try to disprove quantitative data with qualitative.

1 hour ago, TheCeilican said:

Whether ESC is 'worth it' or not has no impact whatsoever on the maths that it's the worst red dice in the game. Do t try to disprove quantitative data with qualitative.

What the ...

7 hours ago, svelok said:

Anyways, here's the debate I've been having in my head for a week:

Maul + 5 Energy Shell Vultures.

If you go with Trade Feds, you've got 15 points left to spend. What's the best way to spend it? Some options:

1.) Hate + Proton Torpedoes
2.) Hate + Dooku
3.) Hate + Grievous + Scimitar + K2-B4
4.) Grievous + Kraken
5.) Chancellor Palpatine
6.) Hate + Grievous + Scimitar + Shield Upgrade
etcetcetc

Which is best? Which have what matchup advantages?

With Maul I just don't find the benefit from the title. Dooku has shenanigans that can help make the most of it by using it out of the normal timings, but Maul has a danger of spending a lot of resources to throw a lot of unmodified attacks, imo.

So from that list I'd narrow it down to:

1.) Hate + Proton Torpedoes
2.) Hate + Dooku
4.) Grievous + Kraken
5.) Chancellor Palpatine

I need to try Palp to see how he fares, but again you're spending force that Maul can't spare again. Dooku is cheaper and is direct dice mods so I want to give him a go. Plus you can fit Hate for more force regen whereas you can't quite with Palp.

Kraken is great imo, and means that Maul can also store his own spare calculate if he has a recharge round. But to get the most of him you can't fly Maul too far away from the droids.

K2-B4 I just don't find that useful unless I luck out and get a lot of natural evades.

Protons are expensive for a faction that feels a tad overcosted in general. But, you know, do kill stuff which is useful.

So for 15 points I'm planning on trying Hate, Grevious, Dooku.

15 hours ago, TheCeilican said:

Whether ESC is 'worth it' or not has no impact whatsoever on the maths that it's the worst red dice in the game. Do t try to disprove quantitative data with qualitative.

Ok.

23 hours ago, __underscore__ said:

With Maul I just don't find the benefit from the title. Dooku has shenanigans that can help make the most of it by using it out of the normal timings, but Maul has a danger of spending a lot of resources to throw a lot of unmodified attacks, imo.

So from that list I'd narrow it down to:

1.) Hate + Proton Torpedoes
2.) Hate + Dooku
4.) Grievous + Kraken
5.) Chancellor Palpatine

I need to try Palp to see how he fares, but again you're spending force that Maul can't spare again. Dooku is cheaper and is direct dice mods so I want to give him a go. Plus you can fit Hate for more force regen whereas you can't quite with Palp.

Kraken is great imo, and means that Maul can also store his own spare calculate if he has a recharge round. But to get the most of him you can't fly Maul too far away from the droids.

K2-B4 I just don't find that useful unless I luck out and get a lot of natural evades.

Protons are expensive for a faction that feels a tad overcosted in general. But, you know, do kill stuff which is useful.

So for 15 points I'm planning on trying Hate, Grevious, Dooku.

I tried Maul w/Dooku on Friday and was pleased with the results. The obvious lack of synergy with Maul's ability can hurt of the opponent ignores Maul and you don't get Hate regen but you can manage it a little by only using Mauls ability when it's important.

I also think Dooku does a lot for how strong Maul is in endgame.

1 hour ago, TheCeilican said:

The  obvious lack of synergy with Maul's ability can hurt of the opponent ignores Maul and you don't get Hate regen but

... but, that means your opponent is ignoring a 10HP, 4-force, init 5 bruiser with a "**** your arc dodge" 5 k-turn, which is fine too?

Dookrew does seem to work best if you're shooting last, since you can Hate up to spam it on defense and make people sad before you blow it on offense.

On 4/6/2019 at 3:04 AM, svelok said:

Anyways, here's the debate I've been having in my head for a week:

Maul + 5 Energy Shell Vultures.

If you go with Trade Feds, you've got 15 points left to spend. What's the best way to spend it? Some options:

1.) Hate + Proton Torpedoes
2.) Hate + Dooku
3.) Hate + Grievous + Scimitar + K2-B4
4.) Grievous + Kraken
5.) Chancellor Palpatine
6.) Hate + Grievous + Scimitar + Shield Upgrade
etcetcetc

Which is best? Which have what matchup advantages?

Hate is an auto-include in my opinion. I wouldn't take Proton Torps, K2-B4, Scimitar or Shield Upgrade. Don't think they are worth the points.

I've had success with Dooku. The best thing about him is that he's good no matter what your opponent is shooting at. If he's trying to take down Maul, use Dooku for Mauls green dice. If he's going after the Vultures, use Dooku offensively or prevent that third damage on a drone.

Grievous is great, but only if your opponent is shooting at Maul. So some games he does absolutely nothing. Same with Palp.

Another upgrade to consider is Electronic Baffle. If Maul isn't getting shot, he can use it to get some force back. It also opens up his movement options.

If you like to gamble, you can upgrade your drones to I3. It's devastating in some matchups (Y-Wings, Rebel Beef, I1 Vulture Swarms), but 10 wasted points in others (Quad Phantoms, Resistance I5s).

All in all the options I like are
1.) Hate + Dooku + Electronic Baffle
2.) Hate + Electronic Baffle + I3 drones

6 minutes ago, Naerytar said:

Another upgrade to consider is Electronic Baffle.

I'm definitely in on ebaffle, but it's not hyperspace legal.

So, anecdotal but, We had a 56 man hyperspace this weekend. I ran Space Invaders (8x Sep Drones w/ 6 Energy Shells). Got a 4-2 record which easily could've been the 5-1 to make the cut, but made some small mistakes and had some poor dice swings at inopportune moments (possibly a full report with some more complete thoughts in the batrep section later). There was another identical Sep list that also went 4-2. All 3 lists with Sith Infiltrators sat at the bottom tables all day. I wasn't sold the SI was good going in, and none of the games or results that I saw caused me to reverse this. Vultures, on the other hand, especially the I3s with shells, are just really good for their cost -> game impact, especially when you hit an appropriate critical mass and come up with a cohesive formation. I will say, there is definitely a minimum number of Vultures to be effective. It's the combination of the threat offered, the number of firing arcs, the number of floating calculates etc, but as soon as you lose that critical mass, either by splitting or through casualties, they become easy prey.

6 hours ago, TheCeilican said:

I tried Maul w/Dooku on Friday and was pleased with the results. The obvious lack of synergy with Maul's ability can hurt of the opponent ignores Maul and you don't get Hate regen but you can manage it a little by only using Mauls ability when it's important.

I also think Dooku does a lot for how strong Maul is in endgame.

I see people mentioning Maul a lot. Have people been having success with him? He sounds strong, but how often does he end up with two opponents in arc?

3 hours ago, JJ48 said:

I see people mentioning Maul a lot. Have people been having success with him? He sounds strong, but how often does he end up with two opponents in arc?

I don't think I've used his ability once in all my practice games with him, it's the upgrades that are really doing it in my games, plus the I5 and innate mods if needs must.

For the record, Hate/Grevious/Dooku was what I tested today and is the build I'm settling on for the Open next weekend. Plus 5 drones with Energy Cells.

6 minutes ago, __underscore__ said:

I don't think I've used his ability once in all my practice games with him, it's the upgrades that are really doing it in my games, plus the I5 and innate mods if needs must.

For the record, Hate/Grevious/Dooku was what I tested today and is the build I'm settling on for the Open next weekend. Plus 5 drones with Energy Cells.

Ah. I hadn't noticed his Initiative, and just assumed people were using him for his ability.

11 minutes ago, __underscore__ said:

I don't think I've used his ability once in all my practice games with him, it's the upgrades that are really doing it in my games, plus the I5 and innate mods if needs must.

For the record, Hate/Grevious/Dooku was what I tested today and is the build I'm settling on for the Open next weekend. Plus 5 drones with Energy Cells.

4 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Ah. I hadn't noticed his Initiative, and just assumed people were using him for his ability.

I use his ability probably close to one in three turns or more. It's super strong.

8 minutes ago, svelok said:

I use his ability probably close to one in three turns or more. It's super strong.

Yep, there's going to be a time and a place for it, it's just going to wipe you of most of your resources. In my early games I was way too gung-ho with it so I might've gone the other way too much.

9 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:

So, anecdotal but, We had a 56 man hyperspace this weekend. I ran Space Invaders (8x Sep Drones w/ 6 Energy Shells). Got a 4-2 record which easily could've been the 5-1 to make the cut...

I would really like to read your reports and thoughts on why you find the Infiltrator bad. I haven't tried 8 Vultures yet, but I found SI+5 better than 6+Bellbulab in my limited experience.

6 hours ago, JJ48 said:

I see people mentioning Maul a lot. Have people been having success with him? He sounds strong, but how often does he end up with two opponents in arc?

If you catch an agile ace, you might miss (force him to spend dice mod) and then hit him again. If you fight a swarm you might get two weaker ships in your arc. It's a very strong ability but you have to restrain from using it every chance you get. It's not worth it to use the second shot against Focused 3agi ship at Range 3... (unless your Maul is safe and you hope to strip the token for later Vulture strike)

I have yet to play with or against the CIS, however I caught a bit of them in action at the weekend between games. They seem to work around the risky, but very enjoyable strategy of "We're going to die, but hopefully we kill them first". Lot's od dead ships in the two snippets of games I saw with them.

So, uh.

I guess double infiltrator is a viable list.

Does anybody have any clue how that wins games?

I played this list once against triple Delta's (Obi, Ani, Luminara) lost the infiltrator but killed everything... (i forgot to use Highned Perception):

Sith Infiltrator - •Count Dooku - 75
•Count Dooku - Darth Tyranus (61)
Tractor Beam (2)
• Scimitar (4)
Heightened Perception (3)
•K2-B4 (5)

Vulture -class Droid Fighter - Separatist Drone - 26
Separatist Drone - (22)
Energy-Shell Charges (4)

Vulture -class Droid Fighter - Separatist Drone - 26
Separatist Drone - (22)
Energy-Shell Charges (4)

Vulture -class Droid Fighter - Separatist Drone - 26
Separatist Drone - (22)
Energy-Shell Charges (4)

Vulture -class Droid Fighter - Separatist Drone - 26
Separatist Drone - (22)
Energy-Shell Charges (4)

Vulture -class Droid Fighter - Trade Federation Drone - 20
Trade Federation Drone - (20)

Total: 199/200

I think this list has potential with good flying and decent dice

In my experience, Heightened Perception on Dooku is nice just a few times, but Hate pays off more often.

Dooku WANTS to get shot at in order to proc part 1 of his ability. Load him with Grevious crew to soften the damage that might come in.

Count Dooku (61)
Hate (3)
General Grievous (3)
Scimitar (4)
K2-B4 (5)
Total: 76

6 hours ago, Porkchop Express said:

I have yet to play with or against the CIS, however I caught a bit of them in action at the weekend between games. They seem to work around the risky, but very enjoyable strategy of "We're going to die, but hopefully we kill them first". Lot's od dead ships in the two snippets of games I saw with them.

I've faced them twice, everything seems to depend on how long the droids survive.

Game 1 I was always putting 2 damage though and not finishing them off, meaning Dooku could run around unchallenged and I could never score enough points to win.

Game 2 I one-shotted 4 droids in a row and then mopped up the Sith quite easily after.

I think they're a really scary faction though, those droids with infinite calculate tokens can do some damage if you don't finish them off.

On 4/5/2019 at 9:04 PM, svelok said:

Anyways, here's the debate I've been having in my head for a week:

Maul + 5 Energy Shell Vultures.

If you go with Trade Feds, you've got 15 points left to spend. What's the best way to spend it? Some options:

1.) Hate + Proton Torpedoes
2.) Hate + Dooku
3.) Hate + Grievous + Scimitar + K2-B4
4.) Grievous + Kraken
5.) Chancellor Palpatine
6.) Hate + Grievous + Scimitar + Shield Upgrade
etcetcetc

Which is best? Which have what matchup advantages?

My personal best build for Maul is Hate + perceptive copilot. Keep it simple, try to trade range 2 shots, then 5k behind and do ya thang!
if you're flying a swarm of vulture with him, grievous is a steal and well worth it IMO too.

6 hours ago, svelok said:

So, uh.

I guess double infiltrator is a viable list.

Does anybody have any clue how that wins games?

Not yet and without wanting to own 2 Infiltrators, I won't find out until someone talks about it on a podcast to great detail or it gets streamed.