18 minutes ago, TheCeilican said:

The third dice you add is the worst extra dice in the game.

The numbers don't back up your statement.

Playing the Separatist ships has been a lot of fun and are pushing me to play swarms some more. The vulture droids have been great for one or two strong rounds of attacking, but after the Energy Shell Charges are spent, they start dropping fast. After that, it comes down to my "ace" (either Darth Maul or Grievous) to do the heavy hitting while the vultures try to get in the way of the enemy ships and take what pot-shots they can.

The vulture dials are finicky, but nothing that I haven't been able to get used to. And K2-B4 has been a really useful tactical relay by making my opponents ships so much easier for my vultures to hit when they take that strain.

I'm also finding that more vulture droids usually equals more success and I3 Separatist Drones over I1 Trade Federation Drones makes a noticeable difference.

6 minutes ago, Derpzilla88 said:

The vulture dials are finicky, but nothing that I haven't been able to get used to. And K2-B4 has been a really useful tactical relay by making my opponents ships so much easier for my vultures to hit when they take that strain.

Honestly, I wasn't sold on B4. Losing a mod to still take damage and maybe deal +1 damage on the next shot (assuming the die you removed from strain was going to not just roll a blank anyways) just didn't impress.

9 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

Honestly, I wasn't sold on B4. Losing a mod to still take damage and maybe deal +1 damage on the next shot (assuming the die you removed from strain was going to not just roll a blank anyways) just didn't impress.

They have to agree to take the Strain. If you have a lot more shots on them....

15 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

They have to agree to take the Strain. If you have a lot more shots on them....

The number of shots doesn't matter, it goes away on the next one

9 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

The number of shots doesn't matter, it goes away on the next one

Well....having one matters.

1 hour ago, MasterShake2 said:

Honestly, I wasn't sold on B4. Losing a mod to still take damage and maybe deal +1 damage on the next shot (assuming the die you removed from strain was going to not just roll a blank anyways) just didn't impress.

Losing the mod does suck, and it's not uncommon that I'll lose a vulture droid. But I technically still have a mod through Networked Calculations. And if the opponent takes that strain then the four or five shots I have back on that ship can either kill or cripple it. Anything with one agility typically doesn't want to take the strain, so that's almost always going to be free evades to keep my ships alive a little longer than normal.

I think objectively, Kraken is better. But at 10 points it's hard for me to fit him in squads where I want both a decent number of ESC vultures and either Grievous or Maul with 2-3 upgrades. K2-B4 is just cheap enough to fit into almost any squad and provides just enough bonus to make up the points.

Just now, Derpzilla88 said:

Losing the mod does suck, and it's not uncommon that I'll lose a vulture droid. But I technically still have a mod through Networked Calculations. And if the opponent takes that strain then the four or five shots I have back on that ship can either kill or cripple it. Anything with one agility typically doesn't want to take the strain, so that's almost always going to be free evades to keep my ships alive a little longer than normal.

I think objectively, Kraken is better. But at 10 points it's hard for me to fit him in squads where I want both a decent number of ESC vultures and either Grievous or Maul with 2-3 upgrades. K2-B4 is just cheap enough to fit into almost any squad and provides just enough bonus to make up the points.

It depends. If the attacker spent their tokens on offense, they have little reason to not take the strain (62.5% chance of not rolling an evade + chances of blanking the attack or attack roll low enough/high enough that it doesn't matter)

1 hour ago, MasterShake2 said:

Honestly, I wasn't sold on B4. Losing a mod to still take damage and maybe deal +1 damage on the next shot (assuming the die you removed from strain was going to not just roll a blank anyways) just didn't impress.

Also assuming you're going to get a shot that turn, before the opponent does a Blue maneuver and erases it. If the ship's about to be destroyed anyway, then go ahead and spend its Calculate, but the number of conditions that have to come together to make it worthwhile make me think the points are probably better spent elsewhere.

What would you guys price Kraken at, if you could? I don't like that it's 10 points because I'd love to have more points to squeeze more upgrades in, however I do think it's not too horrible.

When Perceptive Co-pilot was at 10 points most folks seemed to take that in stride and our collective jaws dropped when it went down to 8 because it wasn't really necessary. When compared to P.Co-P. Kraken does seem two points too expensive. Maybe we'll see an adjustment in that direction come July.

6 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

What would you guys price Kraken at, if you could? I don't like that it's 10 points because I'd love to have more points to squeeze more upgrades in, however I do think it's not too horrible.

When Perceptive Co-pilot was at 10 points most folks seemed to take that in stride and our collective jaws dropped when it went down to 8 because it wasn't really necessary. When compared to P.Co-P. Kraken does seem two points too expensive. Maybe we'll see an adjustment in that direction come July.

I think they wanted to be cautious, seeing as how token-stacking could easily get out of hand. I agree that he'll probably come down a little in the future.

3 hours ago, heychadwick said:

The numbers don't back up your statement.

They do, we just aren't talking the same thing.

The 3rd red dice of ESC is worth only 85% of a typical single-modded 3rd red dice.

3 hours ago, heychadwick said:

The numbers don't back up your statement.

I'm with him a third die and focus > crit conversion are money

13 minutes ago, TheCeilican said:

They do, we just aren't talking the same thing.

The 3rd red dice of ESC is worth only 85% of a typical single-modded 3rd red dice.

So is this based on Calculate only converting 1 result? Because, it turns out a lot of drones don't roll any eyeball results leaving you free to convert 2 pretty casually and that's when you actually roll any eyeball results. Odds a triple eyeball, the only result where you can't convert everything (barring having 2 tokens with Kracken + a networked token) is a 1 in 64. The general rule of most of my opponents has been to just assume Droids can mod any non-blank and typically that assumption is usually correct.

I really don't know what the point of this argument is

1 hour ago, Force Majeure said:

What would you guys price Kraken at, if you could? I don't like that it's 10 points because I'd love to have more points to squeeze more upgrades in, however I do think it's not too horrible.

When Perceptive Co-pilot was at 10 points most folks seemed to take that in stride and our collective jaws dropped when it went down to 8 because it wasn't really necessary. When compared to P.Co-P. Kraken does seem two points too expensive. Maybe we'll see an adjustment in that direction come July.

I mean, is 10 that wrong?

I want to see (naked) Vultures and Impervium/B22s come down for sure, and the other two relays seem wrong (5/5/10 should maybe be 2/2/10?), but I don't think Kraken is too far off base.

15 minutes ago, svelok said:

I really don't know what the point of this argument is

I mean, is 10 that wrong?

I want to see (naked) Vultures and Impervium/B22s come down for sure, and the other two relays seem wrong (5/5/10 should maybe be 2/2/10?), but I don't think Kraken is too far off base.

In my experience, you go through Calculates super fast, so Kracken is mostly just a jousting tool that occasionally comes up on other turns. In that regards, I'm not as bully as I was when I first looked at him.

1 hour ago, TheCeilican said:

They do, we just aren't talking the same thing.

The 3rd red dice of ESC is worth only 85% of a typical single-modded 3rd red dice.

3rd red die being worth only 85% of a 3rd red die with a Focus certainly isn't "the worst 3rd die in the game".

2 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

3rd red die being worth only 85% of a 3rd red die with a Focus certainly isn't "the worst 3rd die in the game".

You got another red dice that mods less than 85%?

Just now, TheCeilican said:

You got another red dice that mods less than 85%?

Yeah. One with zero mods. Oh, or one that has only 1 Calc token instead of all the ways Vultures can get more than one Calc token.

Just now, TheCeilican said:

No point arguing with idiots

You have been rude, insulting, bombastic, and unwilling to face facts. The people on these forums tend to act a little better than the rest if the internet. I see you are new, but please don't act like a jerk here. Most people who come to these forums don't treat each other badly.

52 minutes ago, TheCeilican said:

No point arguing with idiots

I think you're majorly discounting the fact that the ESC don't give up another green dice at range 3. On top of that against high health low agility ships, those crits really start to add up. Check yourself before you start throwing your rude weight around next time. It's unnecessary.

And even the ‘worse red die’ is better than no red die.

Also I’d argue the trick shot through a gas cloud is worse. Because the red die is countered by a 75% chance of extra evade results even with no mods.

But if you ask me if I’d rather have the shot without Trick Shot? Absolutely not! An unobstructed shot may be better, but given the choice between extra red and no extra red, I’ll take the bad extra.

Anyways, here's the debate I've been having in my head for a week:

Maul + 5 Energy Shell Vultures.

If you go with Trade Feds, you've got 15 points left to spend. What's the best way to spend it? Some options:

1.) Hate + Proton Torpedoes
2.) Hate + Dooku
3.) Hate + Grievous + Scimitar + K2-B4
4.) Grievous + Kraken
5.) Chancellor Palpatine
6.) Hate + Grievous + Scimitar + Shield Upgrade
etcetcetc

Which is best? Which have what matchup advantages?

12 hours ago, Innese said:

Yup it was the Init 1s, alongside Seer (Sear?) I think. I was running Emon (4) and 2 Black Sun Assassins (3) and just kept popping them.

Were you in Houston? If so, that was me. Great game, man. Those dice though just did me 0 favors that game.

Ended up going 4-2 and top 16 in that Hyperspace.

Love those droids.

1 minute ago, Atredes said:

Were you in Houston? If so, that was me. Great game, man. Those dice though just did me 0 favors that game.

Ended up going 4-2 and top 16 in that Hyperspace.

Love those droids.

Yea I was; I'm still shocked I only ended losing that single shield on the Starviper after those 4 ESCs.

I ended up going 3/3 myself, which is better than I expected... So close to those dice though 💔