The Energy-Shell Charges card has the action to reload this card, does this give you a weapons dissabled token?

There seems to be 2 ways at looking at this for our group of players:

1 - The card states "reload" and if you look in the rules under reload you get a weapons dissabled token if you perform it as an action.

2 - The card states "Action: Reload this card" and not " perform a reload action", also it does not say "and gain a weapons disabled token.

Also:

3 - Why does it not follow the way FFG does card layouts and add the reload action to the action bar?

4 - Why does it not follow the way FFG does card layouts and use the reload symbol instead of text?

If you follow the rules for reloading then you would get a weapons dissabled token but why have FFG done this one card as a completely different layout to all of their other cards, this is why it is causing the confusion in our group.

What else are you doing if you're not following the reload procedure?

there is already a topic for this.

2. And how do you know what reload means without looking it up and seeing that part of reloading, is gaining a Disarm token?

3. Because they didn't want to give the ship a Reload action in which it could reload ANY weapon with, which is what adding it to the action bar would do.

4. Soo.. "Action: [reload icon] this card"? Thats saying the exact same thing. Since they typically put "action" after those icons, this wouldnt make sense and would not follow their normal card layouts.

It shouldn't be causing any confusion. The heading in the rules reference is Reload. Not "Reload Action". Reload isnt inherently, nor exclusively an action. If they didnt want you to actually go though the reload steps, they would have worded it similar to Bomblet Generator, for example... " Action: Recover 1 [charge] on this card" . But they don't want you to simply recover a charge, because that Would avoid you gaining the disarm token.

37 minutes ago, Lyianx said:

2. And how do you know what reload means without looking it up and seeing that part of reloading, is gaining a Disarm token?

3. Because they didn't want to give the ship a Reload action in which it could reload ANY weapon with, which is what adding it to the action bar would do.

4. Soo.. "Action: [reload icon] this card"? Thats saying the exact same thing. Since they typically put "action" after those icons, this wouldnt make sense and would not follow their normal card layouts.

It shouldn't be causing any confusion. The heading in the rules reference is Reload. Not "Reload Action". Reload isnt inherently, nor exclusively an action. If they didnt want you to actually go though the reload steps, they would have worded it similar to Bomblet Generator, for example... " Action: Recover 1 [charge] on this card" . But they don't want you to simply recover a charge, because that Would avoid you gaining the disarm token.

The confusion has arrison because they did not put the symbol for reloading on the card and in the RR it states: When a ship performs the (Reload Symbol) action, it reloads by performing the following steps etc.

People are arguing the fact that it is an "action" to reload the card and not a "reload action" due to FFG not using the reload symbol and arguing that it is the cards abillity to allow an action to reload and not to perform a reload action.

The fact that it states in the RR "If an ability instructs a player to reload, this is different than performing a (Reload Symbol) action" this has coused people to see the card as giving you the abillity of reloading for the cost of an action and not to perform a reload action.

In th RR under "Golden Rules" parragraph 2 "If the ability of a card conflicts with the rules in this guide, the card ability takes precedence" then look at "Abilities" paying costs "For example, GNK “Gonk” Droid’s ability says “Action: Spend 1 (Charge Symbol) to recover 1 shield.” This denotes that the cards action is an ability and the card overrules

the RR for reloading and it does not state that you receive a disarm token on the card.

It feels like this is true and you would not get the disarm token when I feel that FFG wanted you to get one.

I think FFG should ask all of their play testers to give their oppinoin on what they think the card means and then when they have over a 90% agreement on the meaning of the card they then, and only then, should print the card.

it's a reload effect, not a gaining or regaining a charge effect, so it gives you a disarm token.

to me it's very clear. i do understand that it's not that clear for everyone, so i 100% agree that it should be clearer.

this has already been discussed at length in the other thread, though. if you wish to discuss is further, please continue over there.

19 minutes ago, Dubtastic said:

The confusion has arrison because they did not put the symbol for reloading on the card and in the RR it states: When a ship performs the (Reload Symbol) action, it reloads by performing the following steps etc.

The problem with people reading this statement, as they see it as " ONLY when a ship performs the [reload] action, it reloads by performing the following steps" The important bit of that is "It reloads by performing the following steps". That's how the reload action reloads, by performing the reload steps. The fact that its clarifying when the Action happens, doesnt mean its the ONLY time you perform the reload steps. Thats like saying a Decloaking ship isnt bound by the steps of a Barrel roll because it says "When a small ship performs a [barrel roll] action , it follows these steps:". We all know a barrel roll ACTION isnt the Only time you run though the steps of a Barrel Roll. Decloaking says "perform a barrel roll". Shell charges say "reload this card".

26 minutes ago, Dubtastic said:

People are arguing the fact that it is an "action" to reload the card and not a "reload action" due to FFG not using the reload symbol and arguing that it is the cards abillity to allow an action to reload and not to perform a reload action.

That's correct. Performing the action in order to reload the energy shell charges from its card is NOT the same as a performing reload action , and thus, if the ship they are on, is granted another action, and has the Reload action on their action bar, they can perform the Reload action as well as reloading the charge from its own Action: ability. The card is instructing a player to reload, and its not a reload action. But you are still following the steps of the Reload mechanic, and thus, will receive a disarm token.

4 minutes ago, meffo said:

it's a reload effect, not a gaining or regaining a charge effect, so it gives you a disarm token.

to me it's very clear. i do understand that it's not that clear for everyone, so i 100% agree that it should be clearer.

this has already been discussed at length in the other thread, though. if you wish to discuss is further, please continue over there.

The RR for reloading states that an ability does not count as a reload action though, and it is only when you perform the (reload symbol) action do you follow the performing steps.

5 minutes ago, Dubtastic said:

The RR for reloading states that an ability does not count as a reload action though, and it is only when you perform the (reload symbol) action do you follow the performing steps.

that's because it doesn't count as a reload action. it's still a reload effect, though, so you still recieve the disarm token.

there are no other ways to reload described in the rules.

@Dubtastic I’ll give you the 2 cents I give each time this topic arrises.

1. There is a Weapon Disabled token in the Vulture pack and no other method of remotely obtaining it.

2. In the demo game of Wave 3, the FFG devs gave a Weapon Disabled token when a Vulture ‘reloaded’ the ESC

10 minutes ago, Dubtastic said:

and it is only when you perform the (reload symbol) action do you follow the performing steps.

No. It does not in fact say this at all. It says "When", not "Only when".

7 minutes ago, Dubtastic said:

The RR for reloading states that an ability does not count as a reload action though, and it is only when you perform the (reload symbol) action do you follow the performing steps.

This is for instances where the card effect is not an action, in a similar way to cards instructing you to acquire a target lock or gain a focus/evade token without taking the corresponding action.

In the case of Energy Shell Charges, however, the word “Action:” means it isn’t an ‘ability’ that you’re performing... it’s an action.

Nobody's answered this directly in any of these threads yet, so I'll ask again:

if you're not following the Reload process, what ARE you doing? It doesn't say to recover a charge on the card, so you defnitnely shouldn't do that.

And if you ARE following it, how do you justify only following the bits of it you like?

Just now, thespaceinvader said:

Nobody's answered this directly in any of these threads yet, so I'll ask again:

if you're not following the Reload process, what ARE you doing? It doesn't say to recover a charge on the card, so you definitely shouldn't do that.

And if you ARE following it, how do you justify only following the bits of it you like?

I was just trying to type up something similar to this, but yours sounds better.

Answer: Yes, it gives you a disarm token just like a regular reload action because FFG said so on their stream.

Reasoning: I assume it was intended to make sure the ESC didn't just give the ship using it a white reload action so it couldn't reload anything except the ESCs.

....I'm feeling a severe case of deja vu for like the 4th time this week....

I think the fact that there is a discussion about it is grounds enough for a proper FAQ or amendment in the rules reference. It should be 100% clear for everyone. Discussions like these are a waste of time and totally unnecessary. I'd rather play x-wing.

Thanks for the input peeps.

I will take this to my play group tonight and let the ones know who thought they didn't get the disarm token that their interpritation was wrong.

4 minutes ago, RStan said:

Answer: Yes, it gives you a disarm token just like a regular reload action because FFG said so on their stream.

Reasoning: I assume it was intended to make sure the ESC didn't just give the ship using it a white reload action so it couldn't reload anything except the ESCs.

....I'm feeling a severe case of deja vu for like the 4th time this week....

Do you have a link so I can just point people to the stream to clarify this.

Thanks

21 minutes ago, Dubtastic said:

Do you have a link so I can just point people to the stream to clarify this.

Thanks

I went through most of the clips that were made from that live stream on the twitch archive for the FFGLive channel and I didn't hear it mentioned in any of those. Maybe when I have more time I can let it run and double check because I recall being the one who asked the original question.

1 hour ago, Lyianx said:

The important bit of that is "It reloads by performing the following steps". That's how the reload action reloads, by performing the reload steps. The fact that its clarifying when the Action happens, doesnt mean its the ONLY time you perform the reload steps. Thats like saying a Decloaking ship isnt bound by the steps of a Barrel roll because it says "When a small ship performs a [barrel roll] action , it follows these steps:". We all know a barrel roll ACTION isnt the Only time you run though the steps of a Barrel Roll. Decloaking says "perform a barrel roll". Shell charges say "reload this card".

^ This.

It's not the "reload action", but how to reload is the verb, and defined.

So sure - if you could somehow have a ship with the reload action AND energy shells AND two actions, then it could energy shells reload AND take a reload action.

But either way, what happens when reloading is defined (you get the disarm for doing it). You only know what the phrase "reload this card" even means because of the reload section in RR - otherwise, how do you even "know" to flip the charge back to active?

6 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

^ This.

It's not the "reload action", but how to reload is the verb, and defined.

So sure - if you could somehow have a ship with the reload action AND energy shells AND two actions, then it could energy shells reload AND take a reload action.

But either way, what happens when reloading is defined (you get the disarm for doing it). You only know what the phrase "reload this card" even means because of the reload section in RR - otherwise, how do you even "know" to flip the charge back to active?

To further add on, the wording is chosen so that ships that can take this card don't gain the reload action. If a future droid for instance could take missles and torpedoes, the wording on energy shell charges prohibits you from reloading your torpedoes as well. The alternative wording would be something lengthy and unnecessary like "perform the reload action but only reloading charges on this card, you may still perform the reload action if it is on your action bar"

1 hour ago, catachanninja said:

To further add on, the wording is chosen so that ships that can take this card don't gain the reload action. If a future droid for instance could take missles and torpedoes, the wording on energy shell charges prohibits you from reloading your torpedoes as well. The alternative wording would be something lengthy and unnecessary like "perform the reload action but only reloading charges on this card, you may still perform the reload action if it is on your action bar"

An example of this: The Hyena coming out in Wave 4 has a Red action.

11 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

An example of this: The Hyena coming out in Wave 4 has a Red action.

Which is likely why this weapon only has 1 charge, otherwise it would be able to reload 2 charges per round.

6 minutes ago, Lyianx said:

Which is likely why this weapon only has 1 charge, otherwise it would be able to reload 2 charges per round.

Assuming there's a coord available (and there is from Palps) the Hyena can reload ESC and another ordnance in the same round.

Which is neat.

3 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Assuming there's a coord available (and there is from Palps) the Hyena can reload ESC and another ordnance in the same round.

Which is neat.

True, but it would be double stressed doing it.