1 minute ago, thespaceinvader said:

Much less so, Imps have markedly fewer crew options, and only the Lambda has Coordinate in white.

Vizier + cheap Ciena Ree 👍

7 minutes ago, wurms said:

Vizier + cheap Ciena Ree 👍

Still costs nearly a quarter of your list.

Plus only getting you the extra manouevrability at low init is not very useful, whereas Leia's utility is always going to work when activated, assuming you actually dialled the reds.

I lean towards Ciena sould actually cost quite a lot less than Leia.

Well. People suggesting that Ree should be cheaper than Leia have a very high opinion of her. Leia's ability is obnoxiously telegraphed, as it only happens when she has three charges and must happen in the Systems Phase. Honestly, has anyone ever actually been surprised by Leia's ability? It is very easy to account for. Ree's ability can be reactive, which can be very strong, and can occur every turn. I think that the problem with Ree is that ships that would make the best use of her already have a stress from double actions, but that is a them problem and not a her problem. Maybe she should be cheaper, but certainly not cheaper than Leia.

19 minutes ago, Rapture said:

Well. People suggesting that Ree should be cheaper than Leia have a very high opinion of her. Leia's ability is obnoxiously telegraphed, as it only happens when she has three charges and must happen in the Systems Phase. Honestly, has anyone ever actually been surprised by Leia's ability? It is very easy to account for. Ree's ability can be reactive, which can be very strong, and can occur every turn. I think that the problem with Ree is that ships that would make the best use of her already have a stress from double actions, but that is a them problem and not a her problem. Maybe she should be cheaper, but certainly not cheaper than Leia.

One ship vs whole list

active at the initiative of the carrier, not the ships activating

Adds a penalty for movement tweaking vs removes one (stress)

range 0-2 vs whole board

takes carriers action vs free ability during system phase

You can make an argument that Cienna is powerful. You can also demonstrate said power is strongly limited by list building options and so making the most of her is tricky, at best. You can also demonstrate that Leia is undeniably powerful and greatly impacts the game every time.

Now I’m not saying that Ree should be less expensive than Leia. I am saying, however, that she will never be worth taking as anything other than jank while she costs more.

4 hours ago, millertime059 said:

One ship vs whole list

active at the initiative of the carrier, not the ships activating

Adds a penalty for movement tweaking vs removes one (stress)

range 0-2 vs whole board

takes carriers action vs free ability during system phase

But aren't you ignoring all of the upsides of Ree and all of the downsides of Leia? Your comparison is heavily biased.

Usable every turn vs. once every three turns

Can be triggered through an action vs. being telegraphed during the System Phase

Allows pre-maneuver re-positioning vs. only impacting maneuver difficulty

Allows for ending positions that otherwise cannot be achieved vs. normal ending positions

My list intentionally oversells Ree (I really do not think that she is an amazing card, just that she should not be dropped down to Leia's cost) and downplays Leia. In an honest comparison, it may be the case that Leia can go up two points while Ree goes down four points. I will admit that Leia is easier to use, but I would also argue that Ree has a higher ceiling for the impact that she can have.

Edit: Having considered Ree's ability and opportunities to get her where it can be used, I have to say that I have reconsidered. The fact that she can twist a ship pre-maneuver may be strong, but there has to be an opportunity where that would be valuable and the player must have thought ahead in order to have selected a maneuver that will still provide a good position after a 90 degree rotation. How many times is that really going to happen in a game? Then they have the stress to deal with. Ree being dropped by 5-8 points likely would not result in her becoming a fixture in lists or even particularly common.

3 minutes ago, Rapture said:

I  will  admit that Leia is easier to use, but I would also argue that Ree has a higher ceiling for the impact that she can have. 

I disagree strongly on this part. Now you are right about things like every turn vs every 3. But you can impact up to 5 ships every 3 turns, and the crew carrier still gets mods. The ability to U stop, rotate, and focus is not to be undersold.

And if you are using Ree, then the carrier gets no native mods*. Which can limit the utility strongly.

Ultimately the possibilities for a single ship are higher with Ree, but across a list higher with Leia. As for the systems phase, sure, it does to a degree but 1) she typically appears in 4-5 ship lists with mostly lower Initiative 2) usually the best opportunities are obvious in advance anyhow, rarely should a K-turn be a shock 3) it doesn’t specify which turn around is used**.

besides using Ree on an I1-3 carrier telegraphs where that ace is likely to wind up, as it now restricts it to blue moves in many cases.

Im not saying Ree can’t be powerful, but I am saying that, on average, she will not be more powerful than Leia. Sure you may get a game where that is the case, but given the difficulty to set up such situations I think that is more than fair. See also Jerrijord.

Which is why I argue both should be no more than Leia. They can, situationally, be more powerful, but the steps to do so are much harder than Leia, and I think that a card with higher peaks, but lower valleys that requires greater skill to reach the peaks is fair at the same price as a consistent performer such as Leia.

I also want to be clear that I think the fact Leia, one of the main characters of the films, being meta is good.

*Feroph and Vermiel being a possible exception

** provided the ship has multiple valid choices