He's in Hyperspace now.

The number of I5 aces has increased as well (Guri). That should make him good, right?

How do you fly him? What upgrades do you put on him? And it what squadron?

The only upgrade I feel Soontir needs is Predator. Anything else doesn't really fit with his pilot ability, or would cost far too much to really provide any benefit (scaling costs due to having agility three are a killer).

The joy of this is that this makes him (reasonably) cheap for an Ace at 54pts, with a very flexible dial. That means you can fit him into a wide variety of lists without having to prune away too many things from the rest in order to fit him in.

As to how to fly him, I've struggled with him. I always wind up flying him too aggressively, trying to keep his guns/bullseye on target when I really ought to get him clear of the furball to come back around next turn. While he may have three agility, and usually starts the engagement phase with at least one green token (either from his ability or you taking a focus action), all it takes is one dice roll going poorly (or Wedge Antilles glancing in his direction...) for his day to go very badly.

58 minutes ago, AceDogbert said:

The only upgrade I feel Soontir needs is Predator. Anything else doesn't really fit with his pilot ability, or would cost far too much to really provide any benefit (scaling costs due to having agility three are a killer).

Afterburners isnt' a bad call if you have the points. A fixed (and now reduced) cost of 6 points means it won't break the bank, and being able to get a free boost when doing a speed 3 turn or bank gives soontir a more flexible dial - which is, let's be fair, the only thing keeping him alive most of the time. Being able to (theoretically) move, afterburner boost, evade, autothruster roll, bullseye focus gives him the ability to show up these jedi-come-latelys who think they're all that at arc dodging and action economy, and is still only 60 points.

Plus, it lets you consider a speed 3 segnor then a boost to line up his focus-generating bullseye.

22 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Afterburners isnt' a bad call if you have the points. A fixed (and now reduced) cost of 6 points means it won't break the bank, and being able to get a free boost when doing a speed 3 turn or bank gives soontir a more flexible dial - which is, let's be fair, the only thing keeping him alive most of the time. Being able to (theoretically) move, afterburner boost, evade, autothruster roll, bullseye focus gives him the ability to show up these jedi-come-latelys who think they're all that at arc dodging and action economy, and is still only 60 points.

Plus, it lets you consider a speed 3 segnor then a boost to line up his focus-generating bullseye.

I'd not really thought about Afterburners on Soontir, largely because my copy of the card was practically stapled to Darth Vader in the same list. Thank goodness the squadron packs had two copies of it! I'll have to give this a try. Sadly, it won't fit into a Darth/Soontir/Sai+GrandInq list without seriously compromising the bid...

Fair enough.

My only response would be: when you've got 2 stupidly manouvrable I6 pilots, with a reactive co-ordinate in the squad, how vital can the initiative bid be?

5 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Fair enough.

My only response would be: when you've got 2 stupidly manouvrable I6 pilots, with a reactive co-ordinate in the squad, how vital can the initiative bid be?

It's a nice comfort blanket for my worries about getting outflown, mostly. Still worth a play around with over the next week or so.

5 minutes ago, AceDogbert said:

It's a nice comfort blanket for my worries about getting outflown, mostly. Still worth a play around with over the next week or so.

If you want the ultimate comfort blanket on that front, instead of afterburners try Ciena Rees sat next to the Grand Inquisitor (you can probably justify someone other than Sai as a result since you'll be co-ordinating boosts and barrel rolls not focus).

A reactive barrel roll + 90' turn is a real pain in the fundament for someone trying to outfly you.

3 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

If you want the ultimate comfort blanket on that front, instead of afterburners try Ciena Rees sat next to the Grand Inquisitor (you can probably justify someone other than Sai as a result since you'll be co-ordinating boosts and barrel rolls not focus).

A reactive barrel roll + 90' turn is a real pain in the fundament for someone trying to outfly you.

That does sound like a nasty puzzle for your opponent to have to try and solve. Such a shame that Ree costs 10pts, as even with dropping the shuttle down to the generic and jettisoning the title it makes the list 200pts.

4 hours ago, AceDogbert said:

The only upgrade I feel Soontir needs is Predator. Anything else doesn't really fit with his pilot ability, or would cost far too much to really provide any benefit (scaling costs due to having agility three are a killer).     

Lone Wolf is fantastic, Afterburners helps him get an additional action and can help line up that arc (and is also interesting in combination with Elusive), and Shield Upgrade for survivability are all good upgrades depending on where he fits in your list and how many points you have to play with. A single one of those upgrades still keeps him efficient, and even couple of them -- if leveraged well -- aren't going to break the bank and may even be worth more.

**I know the scaling cost can scare people off of the shield/hull upgrades, but it's worth noting that a shield upgrade is exactly the same cost it was in first edition for Soontir and agility three ships Wwhile it may be a bit less useful because you can't stack as many defensive abilities, I still think it's fine (especially as overall offense is down and Fel can still get double mods).

In my opinion Soontir doesn't really need any upgrades at all. Predator is really good for it's points, but if you're short on points it's not nessesary. Lone Wolf, Shield, Hull, Afterburners and other upgrades are nice, but what kind of squadron do you fly him in (in Hyperspace)? You're probably approaching a 3-ship list?

Predator's all I've ever felt the need for. I've seen Fel run in a variety of different ways and all of them seemed inferior to the cheap Predator builds. I've seen Lone Wolf, Outmanoeuvre, Stealth Device, Afterburners and a whole host of other upgrades but in every single case I've been left thinking the simple Predator Fel at 54 points would have been better.

1 hour ago, Yearfire said:

In my opinion Soontir doesn't really need any upgrades at all. Predator is really good for it's points, but if you're short on points it's not nessesary. Lone Wolf, Shield, Hull, Afterburners and other upgrades are nice, but what kind of squadron do you fly him in (in Hyperspace)? You're probably approaching a 3-ship list?

Right, he doesn't need any of those options but he can be run with them, depending on what you need to do.

As far as what squads, at 52 points, he can fit in a lot of places. and is definitely not limited to three ship squads unless you are running him with Vader and putting points into both of them.

I'm of the predator thinking on Fel, its way too good of a 2 point upgrade to not be running it. I think Fel fits in perfectly with the Ace+miniswarm. The current powerhouse I think is Vader/Howl/Iden/2x Academy, whereas I prefer Fel/Iden/Howl/Hask/Seyn and some choice upgrades. The lists fly similarly but the miniswarm with Fel is a LOT more potent!

On 4/4/2019 at 6:21 AM, Yearfire said:

In my opinion Soontir doesn't really need any upgrades at all. Predator is really good for it's points, but if you're short on points it's not nessesary. Lone Wolf, Shield, Hull, Afterburners and other upgrades are nice, but what kind of squadron do you fly him in (in Hyperspace)? You're probably approaching a 3-ship list?

Spicy TIE Salad is what Im working on:

Darth Vader (65)
Fire-Control System (2)

Soontir Fel (52)
Predator (2)

Major Vermeil (49)

Gideon Hask (30)
Total: 200

Soontir takes over the flanker roll from Vader. Vader takes the Countdown spot as a hard to kill, shoot first ship to strip tokens for Vermeil. FCS on Vader or a 2pt bid is what Im contemplating. Or maybe just naked Soontir and keep FCS on Vader.

Dunno if i'm crazy but i like Daredevil on Soontir Fel. Extra hard 1 turn is surprisingly handy, though naturally risky.

40 minutes ago, Woorloog said:

Dunno if i'm crazy but i like Daredevil on Soontir Fel. Extra hard 1 turn is surprisingly handy, though naturally risky.

Plays havoc with the action economy though, as that'll be your only action for the turn.

Just now, AceDogbert said:

Plays havoc with the action economy though, as that'll be your only action for the turn.

True, and and the stress is an issue as well. But if it does give you perfect firing line from good location and bullseye arc... As noted, Soontir Fel works fine without upgrades, and slapping Daredevil on him just gives him an extra option..

Maybe not worth 3 points... but i'm not a competitive player so it works for me just fine.