I don’t care if they get nerfed, but if I see them across from me again, I will probably just concede. They are not fun to play against.

Only 5 points for juke. That is ridiculous.

Ok. I get it, to fly in formation with that ship, it takes a lot of skill, but they, because of the cloak action, are super maneuverable and as a result likely to be unpredictable. Plus they have ridiculous action economy. Take away juke and it is a very potent ship. It has essentially permanent double mods. Remove juke and you will still see a lot of 4 sigma builds. Juke just makes it an NPE for your opponent. Why even roll the dice on a single agility ship?

52 minutes ago, Wolfmanhays said:

Only 5 points for juke. That is ridiculous.

Again - Juke is not the problem. It's a problem on a chassis that has the evade for free, as well as a focus and the cloak/decloak.

I agree that Phantoms are probably OP, but it's not because Juke is 5pts. How many other ships take it?

Defenders. N1s when they drop. Sabine.

Juke is not the problem. Phantoms are too cheap. They are the best generic in the game by quite some margin.

The question I have, is what is the right way to balance the Phantom? Is it drop the EPT slot from the Sigma? Or price them all up 5-6 points?

1 minute ago, FatherTurin said:

The question I have, is what is the right way to balance the Phantom? Is it drop the EPT slot from the Sigma? Or price them all up 5-6 points?

Putting the sigma up to the point where you only get 2 jukes is probably enough but honestly it probably ought to be priced so you can only get 3 at all so 51 points.

Even without any jukes you still get four double action pseudo double reposition focus evade defence 5 health ships. That's absurd.

Resistance 5s is worse but that's another story.

Just now, thespaceinvader said:

Putting the sigma up to the point where you only get 2 jukes is probably enough but honestly it probably ought to be priced so you can only get 3 at all so 51 points.

You know, I haven’t played against this particular list since I just got back into the game after a break and I’m trying to revitalize the local scene, but I anticipate a lot of rage from folks who bought 4 phantoms to play the favor of the month list. And I will have the same reaction as I did to the people who bought 3 jump masters back in the day: a rueful chuckle.

And as for the As, that’s why I’m not going crazy. They are going to get a price increase, I’m sure of it, and I try not to do the flavor of the month thing even if I love A-Wings. 3 is plenty for me.

1 hour ago, Wolfmanhays said:

Ok. I get     it, to fly in formation with that ship, it takes a lot of  ski     l   l  

Explain your thought process on this. How is it any harder to fly a box formation with decloaks when they generally decloaks the same way and the box formation is easy to reshape?

22 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Even without any jukes you still get four double action pseudo double reposition focus evade defence 5 health ships. That's absurd.

Resistance 5s is worse but that's another story.

Resistance 5s won't survive the next points increase. Which is a shame, because 2 A-Wings is the only thing that seems to work with Rey, so unless she gets a points decrease, there's nothing out there to fly her with when the As inevitably go up!

29 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Even without any jukes you still get four double action pseudo double reposition focus evade defence 5 health ships. That's absurd.

Resistance 5s is worse but that's another story.

Wait, I think I misunderstood something. Is “Resistance 5s” 5 A-Wings, or running both PS5 pilots from both the T-70 and the A-Wing, because if it’s the later I feel bad, because I was definitely planning on running that.

Personally, it may not be as NPE as the above lists, but after playing against a Drea & trip scurgg list tonight not once but twice resulting in very unfun matches...I personally hope it dies in a fire.

49 minutes ago, FatherTurin said:

The question I have, is what is the right way to balance the Phantom? Is it drop the EPT slot from the Sigma? Or price them all up 5-6 points?

Would anyone be terribly offended if decloaking happened at the start of the planning phase?

48 on the Sigma will sit things fine I feel. Juke gets exponentially better with more copies, 1 is hardly worth the points. 4 focused 3 die attacks, even from tricky to pin I4s, wouldn't be list crushingly good. Trick Shot would be a nice flavour but is appreciably hit and miss with just focus.

Resistance 5s, whether 5 RZ-2's or the 4 I5s, hinge massively on L'ulo. He needs a decent bump. He's a terror.

VTG fuels other things. Seems like it should be 8 on a 3 die ship. Possibly not too bad at 6 on a 2 die but I'd be happy to see it at 40pt

Things are not so bad.

7 minutes ago, hargleblarg said:

Would anyone be terribly offended if decloaking happened at the start of the planning phase?

I use Echo, I would be horrified.

5 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

48 on the Sigma will sit things fine I feel.

This! 48 means you have space for 1 Juke if Juke stays at 5pt. That is not a problem anymore.

6 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

Resistance 5s, whether 5 RZ-2's or the 4 I5s, hinge massively on L'ulo. He needs a decent bump. He's a terror.

Also this. Lulo has to go up, there's no way to ignore how dominating he is in resistance list building.

The generics don't have to go up but can 1pt. Tallie was too cheap from the start. Greer and Zari... it remains to be seen how good they are without two i5s in the squad next to them.

46 minutes ago, drjkel said:

Explain your thought process on this. How is it any harder to fly a box formation with decloaks when they generally decloaks the same way and the box formation is easy to reshape?

I was trying to defuse the it takes skill to fly them argument, before it started.

Juke should cost 9 on phantoms and defenders.

24 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

I use Echo, I would be horrified.

As someone who loves to fly Echo, I concur.

Phantoms will likely go up 2 points across the board in July, FFG have been willing to step in so far I think that’ll continue and for the better

2 minutes ago, FriendofYoda said:

Phantoms will likely go up 2 points across the board in July, FFG have been willing to step in so far I think that’ll continue and for the better

That should be sufficient to reign them in a bit.

I am kinda sick of hearing how OP TIE Phantoms are. No one en mass paid attention to them until they had a couple of System Opens under their belt. It all just feels like fake outrage to me by people who probably never gone up against it. Is the Empire not allowed to have a good generic that is in the same vein as 5 Y-Wings or 5 Resistance A-Wings?

PS

Instead of reacting with dumb laughing emojis you could just respond directly to me in a coherent manner.

3 minutes ago, AgentoftheEmpire said:

I am kinda sick of hearing how OP TIE Phantoms are. No one en mass paid attention to them until they had a couple of System Opens under their belt. It all just feels like fake outrage to me by people who probably never gone up against it. Is the Empire not allowed to have a good generic that is in the same vein as 5 Y-Wings or 5 Resistance A-Wings?

The efficiency of Phantoms has been known about and in the conversation cycle since 2.0 dropped.

Just now, AgentoftheEmpire said:

PS

Instead of reacting with dumb laughing emojis you could just respond directly to me in a coherent manner.

I just did.

1 minute ago, Hiemfire said:

I just did.

I see that. But more to my point. Again, a majority of players did not care about the Sigma Aces with Juke until a few System Opens had happened.