Not sure if this is where to post this or if someone else has already asked this,

Do ESC give disarm tokens? The card's wording seems as if the action is to reload the card, instead of taking a reload action to reload the card.

-DD

I just emailed FFG this morning. I got into it with my buddy last night when recording our podcast. Overall, it's not clear.

The Vulture blister comes with a Disabled token.

The FFG team did a reload and Disabled token on their demo game live stream.

The rules are not clear in my humble opinion.

If they used a little reload icon it would be clear and you would. They don't, though. So, is it a full blown Reload action? If so, then you get the Disarm token per rules for fill blown Reload action. Since they didn't use the little symbol, it puts it in a vague area.

I am thinking due to the first 2 points that it does. I am going to change how I play to get the Disarm until I hear otherwise.

I really hope it doesn't.

10 minutes ago, Darth Drago said:

Do ESC give disarm tokens?

Yes.

For those who are as confused as I was: ESC is "Energy Shell Charges".

It's the Vulture Separatist only missile type.

4 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

I just emailed FFG this morning. I got into it with my buddy last night when recording our podcast. Overall, it's not clear.

The Vulture blister comes with a Disabled token.

The FFG team did a reload and Disabled token on their demo game live stream.

The rules are not clear in my humble opinion.

If they used a little reload icon it would be clear and you would. They don't, though. So, is it a full blown Reload action? If so, then you get the Disarm token per rules for fill blown Reload action. Since they didn't use the little symbol, it puts it in a vague area.

I am thinking due to the first 2 points that it does. I am going to change how I play to get the Disarm until I hear otherwise.

I really hope it doesn't.

There is single passage in the rulebook that provides for "reloading" and that passage instructs you to gain a disarm token, therefore, the rulebook provides zero ways to reload without gaining one.

It could be clearer, but it's not exactly opaque.

Yes it does. Reloading gives you a disarm token, whether or not it's a normal action or a "free" action, using 1.0 terms.

Yes you do gain a weapons disabled token.

I think they would have worded it as "recover a charge" instead of reload if they didn't intend for the player to receive a WDT

Yes it absolutely does. WHilst the reload process isn't drafted perfectly in the RR it's clear enough, and they said so on stream, and there is language available which would work to let it regain the charge without using the term 'reload'

Why it didn't just give a white reload action I'm not sure. Possibly just to avoid giving the Hyena a white reload.

To all the people saying yes: this is your opinion, please get used to describe it in an appropriate way.

My opinion is also that it should give a disarm token, but since the card does not say so, there is a small chance its intended different.

It would have helped if they used the reload symbol on the card or added that you also get a disarm token.

So hopefully there will be a clearification by FFG soon, until then, TOs could rule both ways.

1 minute ago, Rangor said:

To all the people saying yes: this is your opinion, please get used to describe it in an appropriate way.

No it's not. The third point of "reload" is to gain a disarm token.

What other rule is anyone using if not that one?

If “reloading” does not follow the same steps as the “reload” action, then it would literally do nothing.

Recovering one charge is a step in the reloading process, but it is not referred to on its own as “reloading” in the rules. Assuming you can get the positive step (recover one charge) without the negative step (gain a disarm token) doesn’t really make sense to me.

20 minutes ago, Punning Pundit said:

For those who are as confused as I was: ESC is "Energy Shell Charges".

It's the Vulture Separatist only missile type.

Hyena's and any other Separatist missile carrier with the Calculate action will be able to take it as well.

Back to the center of the OP:

=reload. Not reload action.

Reload and the symbol used for it ( ) are indicators of a specific procedure to follow in the rules.

Reload ( )

Pilots can reload to rearm ordnance tubes by moving around ammo on their ship. When a ship performs the action, it reloads by performing the following steps:

1. Choose one of the ship's equipped , , or upgrade cards that has fewer active than its charge limit.
2. That card recovers one .
3. The ship gains one disarm token.

Additionally:

• If an ability instructs a player to reload, this is different than performing a action. A ship that reloads without performing the action can still perform the action this round.

"Reload", regardless of it being from the action on the action bar or being instructed to "reload" by a card ability incurs a disarm token. Now if it had used the term "recover" as in "Recover the charge on this card" instead no disarm token would have been applied.

As @player3010587 so helpfully provided, the Rules Reference for "Reload" does describe how to Reload when it's not an action. Just like any other action, performing a Reload is different than performing a Reload Action, so for example Hyenas might be able to reload their ESC and get a Reload Action coordinated to them for a different piece of ordnance.

The more important thing in this thread is that a card telling you to Reload is effectively telling you to perform a Reload Action that doesn't count as an action.

Woah lots of ninjas.

6 minutes ago, Rangor said:

there is a small chance its intended different.

Yeah but there's not though.

1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

No it's not. The third point of "reload" is to gain a disarm token.

What other rule is anyone using if not that one?

Reload is a specific action marked by the reload symbol as described in the rules. ESC does not use this reload action. It has a unique action just to reload ESC. While it seems its intended to work the same as the reload action, it is not the same action and thus its your and my interpretation / opinion that a ship using this specific action should gain a disarm token.

Just now, Rangor said:

Reload is a specific action marked by the reload symbol as described in the rules. ESC does not use this reload action. It has a unique action just to reload ESC. While it seems its intended to work the same as the reload action, it is not the same action and thus its your and my interpretation / opinion that a ship using this specific action should gain a disarm token.

Read the Rules Reference.

What do you do when a card instructs you to perform a barrel roll on a ship that doesn't have a Barrel Roll Action? 😧

2 minutes ago, Rangor said:

Reload is a specific action marked by the reload symbol as described in the rules. ESC does not use this reload action. It has a unique action just to reload ESC. While it seems its intended to work the same as the reload action, it is not the same action and thus its your and my interpretation / opinion that a ship using this specific action should gain a disarm token.

Where else does your idea of a reload come from if not the passage that's quoted several times in this thread? That part is the ONLY place for a reload, action or not. You can't just do parts of it because you'd like to.

7 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Hyena's and any other Separatist missile carrier with the Calculate action will be able to take it as well.

Back to the center of the OP:

=reload. Not reload action.

Reload and the symbol used for it ( ) are indicators of a specific procedure to follow in the rules.

Reload ( )

Pilots can reload to rearm ordnance tubes by moving around ammo on their ship. When a ship performs the action, it reloads by performing the following steps:

1. Choose one of the ship's equipped , , or upgrade cards that has fewer active than its charge limit.
2. That card recovers one .
3. The ship gains one disarm token.

Additionally:

• If an ability instructs a player to reload, this is different than performing a action. A ship that reloads without performing the action can still perform the action this round.

"Reload", regardless of it being from the action on the action bar or being instructed to "reload" by a card ability incurs a disarm token. Now if it had used the term "recover" as in "Recover the charge on this card" instead no disarm token would have been applied.

I read all the lines. Did all of you too?

The latter part described exactly what i say: If a card tells you to reload, its not telling you to do reload action. So the ESC is in fact, as i said, different from a reload action.

The points 1 to 3 describe, if read correctly, what happens when you do a reload action. Nothing in the text says that if a card instructs you to reload you do the same steps. Not one word about it.

So all you people saying its secured that you gain a disarm: If you dont have any other reference document, you are simply wrong. At this state of rules and card text on ESC, its not clearified.

As a TO i would rule you get a disarm and tell my players so before the tournemant.

But the state is not as clear as you believe.

It's as easy as 1, 2, 3! Except...we have upped the difficulty of this reading session to Valve game developers!

17 minutes ago, Rangor said:

Reload is a specific action marked by the reload symbol as described in the rules. ESC does not use this reload action. It has a unique action just to reload ESC. While it seems its intended to work the same as the reload action, it is not the same action and thus its your and my interpretation / opinion that a ship using this specific action should gain a disarm token.

Ok so if you are not following the reload process... what ARE you doing? It doesn't tell you to recover a charge anywhere on the card so I hope you're not doing that...

You keep away from my keyboard... YOU HEAR ME?

13 minutes ago, Rangor said:

The  latter part described exactly what i say: If a card tells you to reload, its not telling you to do reload action. So  the ESC is in fact, as i said, different from a reload action.  

“W  hen  a ship performs the action, it  rel  o  ads by performing the following ste  p  s ”

So when you perform a Reload Action, you reload , and it tells you how to do so.

20 minutes ago, Rangor said:

Nothing in the text says that if a card instructs you to reload you do the same steps. Not one word about it.

So what are you going to do? Nothing, right?

Because if you recover a charge, you also have to gain a disarm

1 hour ago, FatherTurin said:

If “reloading” does not follow the same steps as the “reload” action, then it would literally do nothing.

Recovering one charge is a step in the reloading process, but it is not referred to on its own as “reloading” in the rules. Assuming you can get the positive step (recover one charge) without the negative step (gain a disarm token) doesn’t really make sense to me.

This is the crux of the argument in favor of gaining a Disarm token when using the ESC reload. If this hypothetical person who believes the "reload" on ESC does not include gaining a Disarm token (yes, @Rangor I read that you would rule it does, and you are making the argument for the sake of improved clarity) where are they finding what "reload" means? If they are not using the passage on page 15, then how do they know to recover a charge?

43 minutes ago, Rangor said:

43 minutes ago, Rangor said:

...

If   an ability instructs a player to reload, this is different than performing  a action. A ship that reloads without performing the action can still perform the action this round.

...

The  latter part described exactly what i say: If a card tells you to reload, its not telling you to do reload action. So the ESC is in fact, as i said  , different from a reload action.

...

That line is attached to every action in the Rules Reference as a provision that allows these effects to be achieved more than once in the same round as that action was taken. That line is only different from the actual action in that it does not consume your single-use opportunity of the associated action, but those non-action-trigger-words still include all the same standard steps and limitations as their [icon] action counterparts.