The kimogila is the only scum ship I don't currently own. I've seen a few discussions involving them, but I'd thought I'd centralize a discussion on them. Any thoughts on their effectiveness in 2.0?

20 minutes ago, underling said:

The kimogila is the only scum ship I don't currently own. I've seen a few discussions involving them, but I'd thought I'd centralize a discussion on them. Any thoughts on their effectiveness in 2.0?

They underperform. Bullseye arcs are, in general, difficult to leverage unless you move last, which I3-4 ships usually don't. It's particularly bad that the Kimogila's barrel roll is red.

Man, Kimos are actually just the most interesting ship in the game.

I would play Star Wars: Kimogila: The Miniatures Game.

The bullseye/barrel roll issue is its biggest problem, but it also suffers from that one green dice and most of its HP in hull, so it's a big target that burns down easily and doesn't move well at all. Scum just has better options if you compare points to ships like 4-LOM that have better abilities, a hard stop, etc. It's hard with these ships that are begging for a full load-out of upgrades, but the points add up. I think at some point there will be some combo that works well, maybe as more ordnance comes out.

They’re not bad. At heart, they are the epitome of a gunship. In a somewhat similar position as the ARC-170 for Rebels, especially since they’re allowed an astromech slot. Unlike the ARC however, they lack the gunner, crew, and rear arc, and instead allow for an illicit, and missile and/torpedo with a reload action. The Bullseye arc is a nice perk, but not something to bet on. Dalan and Torani’s abilities are good, but again don’t plan on getting them to work against a squirrely ace. If you’re really going to try for the Bullseye, Expert Handling is worth getting.

Which brings us to what to do with the thing... Slow roll it in, and use it as a beefy tank to fire support for other ships in your squad. By far probably best modification I’ve seen on it is a 3 or 4pt hull/shield upgrade. If you can swing it, taking either one will bump the ship up to a healthy 10 hit points.

Otherwise it’s just a beefy ordnance boat.

I have to force myself to build lists to try and make them work, I think a few points overcosted, and DALANs ability never triggers much for me, I play mostly against Empire so not many sheild to steal.

Torani's ability is great but red barrel roll means it's quite hard to pull off.

Their are better (Higher Initiave/more maneuverable ) P.torpedo carriers without 3 die primaries.

The Scurrg is also close.ein price and stats but with arguably better 3T.rolls than the 4k.turn

4-LOM is a boss, but the Cartel Marauder is better than the Gand Findsman and Torani is better than Zuckuss IMHO.

A few people have hit the nail on the head, it's a beefy brawler, treat as such. Painbot (R5-P8) is a good upgrade. I think hull upgrade is ok on Torani.

Getting bullseye on a medium base is largely a fool's errand, so the ship and pilot abilities are practically worthless.

Their chassis is most comparable to the Arc. They have a slightly better dial and action bar while having a slightly less favorable hull-shield ratio and losing out on the rear arc. The I3 is cheaper than the I3 arc, but still more expensive than I2 arc.

Their biggest obstacle is the lack of interesting upgrade slots, which they simply don't have canonically. Pilot and an astromech, no room.

Having a chassis-specific astromech that makes it easier to get bullseye somehow (similar to Recoil) would help make their abilities relevant.

The reason I brought this up is I've been experimenting with a double scurrg build, supported by Kavil and Torkil.

It's been fun to play, and I believe it has possibilities. The two scurrgs (both with dorsals and VTG) provide a very real threat that has to be dealt with.

So I started looking at the possibility of using a kimo instead of one of the scurrgs.

The following was thrown together, but gives you the idea:

Scurrg w/ Dorsal turret, Vet turret gunner (51 pts)

Guri w/ Predator (65 pts)

Torani w/ Cluster missiles (55 pts)

L3-37 w/ Tactical officer (28 pts)

The idea would be to group Torani, the scurrg and L3 on one side, with L3 coordinating whichever big guy needs the action.

Guri would then flank on the opposite side.

The "theory" is that the scurrg provides a very real threat that probably should be dealt with, which might reduce the threat to Torani.

Guri then becomes more of the threat because the other three can't really be left alone.

That's the "theory" anyway. And we all know what can happen to that.

We need a disgraced Maul as an I5 pilot of a Kimo. That way, we have the high init needed to consistently proc "dead to rights", as well as the force slot to pair predictive shot so nicely with it. But even then, hate is too good to ignore.

Plain awful. 2.0 also broke niches for many ships.

Take the G1-A instead.

Played with and enjoyed the generic with R5-P8 for 48 points when 2.0 first hit, on the testimony of @ficklegreendice . I moved on to other lists, but have been considering picking that build back up. Though, I wonder if for a generic brawler, a Vet Turret Gunner Y-Wing can’t full fill the same function for cheaper.

3 hours ago, underling said:

The kimogila is the only scum ship I don't currently own. I've seen a few discussions involving them, but I'd thought I'd centralize a discussion on them. Any thoughts on their effectiveness in 2.0?

Me too

2 hours ago, hargleblarg said:

Getting bullseye on a medium base is largely a fool's errand, so the ship and pilot abilities are practically worthless.

Their chassis is most comparable to the Arc. They have a slightly better dial and action bar while having a slightly less favorable hull-shield ratio and losing out on the rear arc. The I3 is cheaper than the I3 arc, but still more expensive than I2 arc.

Their biggest obstacle is the lack of interesting upgrade slots, which they simply don't have canonically. Pilot and an astromech, no room.

Having a chassis-specific astromech that makes it easier to get bullseye somehow (similar to Recoil) would help make their abilities relevant.

The generics are better, agreed. I2 Arc is not a good comparison, because it is clearly undercosted.

Your last 2 sentences, so much yes. Or the chassis having boost, as you often want to bank for a bullseye, barrel roll just shifts sideways.

1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

Plain awful. 2.0 also broke niches for many ships.

Take the G1-A instead.

Do not be so negative, have you even tried it?

A learn-to-fly-medium-base ship . Their dial is actually good now (much better than 1st ed)(G1A dial is actually abysmal in comparison, unless you are named 4Lom! And even then, better not have enemy BT1 near you!). Of course the Killergorilla would like a second turn-around- option, but as medium bases they are fast, this helps.

The problem with reload is that the M12L has already 3dice primary plus Dead to rights, so not much improvement by most ordnance. Most ordnance also has enough charges to fire, so no reload necessary until game is already decided or the M12L carrying it destroyed. I'd rather prefer them being cheaper by not having reload. So only thing actually improving hit capacity for points invested and able to use reload efecctively is Prockets (range 1, but slightly wider area as medium base). Have not tested the combo myself, but there are threads about it here on the forums.

I currently use Sol Sixxa (Seismic, ProxMines, Skilled Bombardier, Qu'ra, Turret)+ naked Jostero and as the second group double M12L. Experience from this: Dalan is a trap, he is just so difficult to proc. You can get a bullseye early in game, but then he often has full shields and is not allowed to proc his ability. Next time he has bullseye his target is already shield-less. Also, shields are generally rare in 2.0, he is useless vs most Empire, stuff like Vultures, Torrents, Fangs, Quadjumpers etc. In a large base meta, though, he would have more opportunity for his ability. Torani's ability and Dead to rights actually cancel each other out more or less, when she achieves bullseye. For a whole 6pts more you just get +1 Ini (and 4 is not much of an improvement) and a potential token stripping (which you would really like being at a higher ini as 4 as well). So I prefer 2 Executioners with Markmansship only (alt take crackshot against aces, my acekiller is Sixxa, thus Markmansship (crits hurt in 2nd ed) for me). Helps also that both are same ini - practise a bit, and you can get some nice bullseye combos. As medium bases they often not get tractor moved in 1 shot and also ionising them needs 3 hits through. Having the fat ar***es they have they also quite effective block out play-area, and move fast. Also 3 turns, seldom in Scum.

35 minutes ago, Managarmr said:

Do not be so negative, have you even tried it?

I tried it for 5 games, then tried the G1-A for 5 games, then tried 2 quadhumpers for about 5 games.

Have you tried it?

I mean come on. What a negative first assumption about people.

Not sure if it is still pertinent since it was pre first points change, but @unfassbarnathan took 3x Executioners, Outer Rim Pioneer and Drea with Dorsal to the NZ Nats back in Jan. Might be some useable insight in his batrep here: https://nathanxwing.home.blog/2019/02/14/execute-order-66-nz-nats-2019-report/

Edit: List is 4 points over now. Can fit a Binayre or a Sentry for blocking instead of the ORP. You loose the coordinate though.

I've played a bunch of Torani with Fearless and R5-P8. He was always a pretty solid pilot, and if you ever got R1 of enemies, he'd just wreck face. He will die to concentrated fire, but he's not too expensive, so it's not the biggest loss.

His ability was always just icing on the cake. I'd usually trigger it once or twice a game without really trying.

Thoughts? I love them and I wish they were better. Played them at the end of 1.0 with some success (regional top 8 ) and I would love to see them get a points adjustment boost or an I5 pilot in the upcoming card packs. What I really want is Torani to be an I5.

Cartel executioner with r5-p8 is an efficient heavy hitter and is a staple in many of my scum lists.

For those complaining about not triggering "dead to rights", you should be treating it as an area denial ability, not as an ace hunting tool. Force your opponent to make hard choices by putting the bullseye in an annoying spot.

5 hours ago, gadwag said:

Cartel executioner with r5-p8 is an efficient heavy hitter and is a staple in many of my scum lists.

For those complaining about not triggering "dead to rights", you should be treating it as an area denial ability, not as an ace hunting tool. Force your opponent to make hard choices by putting the bullseye in an annoying spot.

This. If you force your opponent to roll or boost off your bullseye, you've generally robbed them of an action which near enough does the same thing.

You can turn the Killergorilla into a pretty brutal heavy fighter - I've seen them do some pretty impressive work with 4 Executioners each with Crack Shot, Hull Upgrade and R4 Astromech - Speed 1 white turns makes them surprisingly manouvrable, and anything caught in the bullseye will regret it - but with 4 bullseye arcs in a crossfire, finding a 'safe spot' is a lot harder than it looks.

9 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

You can turn the Killergorilla into a pretty brutal heavy fighter - I've seen them do some pretty impressive work with 4 Executioners each with Crack Shot, Hull Upgrade and R4 Astromech - Speed 1 white turns makes them surprisingly manouvrable , and anything caught in the bullseye will regret it - but with 4 bullseye arcs in a crossfire, finding a 'safe spot' is a lot harder than it looks.

Recently I've seen Outmanuever Moralo - also did pretty well. Problem is Outmanuever Moralo and R4 Kimogila are illegal

17 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

This. If you force your opponent to roll or boost off your bullseye, you've generally robbed them of an action which near enough does the same thing.

You can turn the Killergorilla into a pretty brutal heavy fighter - I've seen them do some pretty impressive work with 4 Executioners each with Crack Shot, Hull Upgrade and R4 Astromech - Speed 1 white turns makes them surprisingly manouvrable, and anything caught in the bullseye will regret it - but with 4 bullseye arcs in a crossfire, finding a 'safe spot' is a lot harder than it looks.

Alas, they can't take R4 Astromech, if they could th ey would be seeing the table a heck of a lot more.

Due to their tankyness an R3 isn't the wort idea and due to their mass of Hull, especially with a possible hull upgrade, R5 isn't that stupid either.

But then they seem overpriced.

I 3 with r5p8 providing full mods for 48 points really isn't bad, but you definitely want someone like Mux to get max value out of it

My only other insight is just NEVER fly more than one Kim in a list. Medium bases are REALLY fluffin clunky, especially without aux arcs

21 hours ago, dadocollin said:

It's hard with these ships that are begging for a full load-out of upgrades, but the points add up.

This is the main problem I see which just compounds everything else.

I love the Kimo but they get very expensive very quickly because they are begging to be loaded up, and they aren't exactly cheap to begin with. Maybe I haven't found the right use for them yet as I still want to use them as a hammer. They are already a target because they have a good ship ability, then add on the fact that they are low initiative, then add on the fact that they are on medium bases.

A quick comparison with the Y-Wing showed this: Double-tap Ion I2 Y-Wing is 1 point less than a naked I3 Kimo. Heck, a Kavil with Dorsal Turret and VTG is only 1 point more than a naked Torani, and shoots 3 red from his turret, and is I5 compared to I4, and is small base compared to medium base.

Thanks for all of the posts, all. Great discussion.

I think remember reading about the guy in NZ, also.

I think I might pick up one just to have one, but I'll also look at the G1-A to augment my build.

1 minute ago, underling said:

Thanks for all of the posts, all. Great discussion.

I think remember reading about the guy in NZ, also.

I think I might pick up one just to have one, but I'll also look at the G1-A to augment my build.

If nothing else, it's a fun ship to fly around the living room.
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