This may have been answered somewhere already, but I'm gonna ask anyway since I can't find the answer.

When you use Dooku's pilot ability, spend a force and remove a cloak token, do you preform the decloak barrel roll or not?

4 minutes ago, Seraphimtoaster375 said:

This may have been answered somewhere already, but I'm gonna ask anyway since I can't find the answer.

When you use Dooku's pilot ability, spend a force and remove a cloak token, do you preform the decloak barrel roll or not?

No. Removing the cloak token =/= decloaking. Note that the illicit cloaking device specifically gives you either/or option:

Also, the Rules Reference (1.0.2) on page 8 says, "...cloaked ship may spend its cloak token to Decloak . When a small ship decloaks, it must..."

On page 18 Spend and Remove are covered as distinct effects on tokens.

As a reminder, the ship is only cloaked while it has a cloak token, which means that when the token is discarded, the ship is no longer disarmed and no longer has its agility value increased by 2.

1 hour ago, nitrobenz said:

On page 18 Spend and Remove are covered as distinct effects on tokens.

🤨 Not really. More like 2 names for the same process...

When a ship is instructed to SPEND a token or there is an instruction to REMOVE a token from a ship, a token of that type is returned from that ship to the supply.

1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:

🤨 Not really. More like 2 names for the same process...

When a ship is instructed to SPEND a token or there is an instruction to REMOVE a token from a ship, a token of that type is returned from that ship to the supply.

But they are different in terms of what they trigger and what they don't.

1 minute ago, InterceptorMad said:

But they are different in terms of what they trigger and what they don't.

Wasn't what I was responding to. They are not covered as distinct effects on the page that was cited, they are presented as 2 different names for the same exact effect there... Have a citation for where Spend and Remove are defined? That would be useful.

4 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

🤨 Not really. More like 2 names for the same process...

When a ship is instructed to SPEND a token or there is an instruction to REMOVE a token from a ship, a token of that type is returned from that ship to the supply.

Spend is taking something as a cost for a effect, while Remove is an effect in and of itself. Both are physically accomplished using the same method (returning the token to the supply) but are not interchangeable in terms of game mechanics.

Quotes from the reference on p.18:

" Some abilities cause ships to gain, spend, or remove tokens."

"• When a ship is instructed to Spend a token or there is an instruction to Remove a token from a ship, a token of that type is returned from that ship to the supply."

Indicates that spend and remove are distinct game effects: one ( Spend ) is something a ship does, the other ( Remove ) happens to a ship.

Unfortunately FFG neglected to include definitions for all of their keywords (insert frustrated diatribe here) so we have to use inference and extrapolation to understand what each specifically means.

Spend is used in the format of "spend [this token] to accomplish [X effect]" as seen in the directions for default use of various tokens including Calculate (p7), Force Charges (p7), Cloak (p8), Evade (p10), Focus (p11), and Lock (p12). The Spend keyword is also found on many cards which instruct you to spend some kind of token as a cost to activate a designated effect.

Remove appears as a description of what you do as a result of doing something else, sometimes the result of spending a token, but usually because of some other effect such as the last step of an Ionized ship's activation (p11) and executing a blue maneuver while stressed (p13&18). Of course, Remove also appears as an effect on a few pilot and upgrade cards where it generally maintains this format of "do [X instruction], then remove [this token]."

An additional question- if you use Dooku's ability to remove a blue cloak token, does it count as decloaking to trigger the Scimitar Jam effect?

5 minutes ago, Ikka said:

An additional question- if you use Dooku's ability to remove a blue cloak token, does it count as decloaking to trigger the Scimitar Jam effect?

No.

12 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

No.

Perfect. That was what I though, just wanted it confirmed.