2 hours ago, Zrob314 said:

I've been playing her with the Darksaber.

She's fun, she's killable, she can survive too.

Really, nothing here to sweat over.

as for me she looks strong in survivability but her offensive output is nothing compared to Boba, who for me actually is the single best unit in the game so far!

54 minutes ago, Thalandar said:

Um, what? Han has sharpshooter 1 and peirce 2, surge to crit and 2 red dice at range 2.

Not to mention Han’s reroll’s give him an effective defense better than red dice.

I think some people fall for the Keyword Trap. It's the same with Tauntaun riders. They see a lot of keywords on the card and think its going to be OP, but when you stop and break it down you realize that it's not that scary.

32 minutes ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

I think some people fall for the Keyword Trap. It's the same with Tauntaun riders. They see a lot of keywords on the card and think its going to be OP, but when you stop and break it down you realize that it's not that scary.

Or the helmet...people see the Mandalorian armor and crap their pants!

I think Sabine more than any unit so far that I can think of suffers from action demand.

Typically ranged units get in position and can then focus on aims/dodge and shoot or move around cover and shoot. Rebels typically dodge+shoot, Imps aim+shoot.

Typically melee can charge so aim/dodge, move, attack. Or double move and attack.

Sabine massively suffers from "what to do?" on turns when she doesn't have tokens from command cards. She wants dodge because nimble. She wants to move to get into melee. If not already in melee she needs to move+attack as both actions. No dodge. No aim. No recovering shield if she brought it. She can't double move and attack meaning while she can run further than Luke, she has a smaller attack range than Luke despite the higher speed.

All this on top of courage 2 meaning all it takes is two suppression and she REALLY suffers in terms of actions.

I am not saying she isn't good, but she is starving for tokens and actions. Any turn you don't dodge is wasted points for nimble. Not aiming means 50% chance of hit on her darksaber. Not moving means only using her gun (which is worse than Han's)

40 minutes ago, MajorSmexy said:

I think Sabine more than any unit so far that I can think of suffers from action demand.

Typically ranged units get in position and can then focus on aims/dodge and shoot or move around cover and shoot. Rebels typically dodge+shoot, Imps aim+shoot.

Typically melee can charge so aim/dodge, move, attack. Or double move and attack.

Sabine massively suffers from "what to do?" on turns when she doesn't have tokens from command cards. She wants dodge because nimble. She wants to move to get into melee. If not already in melee she needs to move+attack as both actions. No dodge. No aim. No recovering shield if she brought it. She can't double move and attack meaning while she can run further than Luke, she has a smaller attack range than Luke despite the higher speed.

All this on top of courage 2 meaning all it takes is two suppression and she REALLY suffers in terms of actions.

I am not saying she isn't good, but she is starving for tokens and actions. Any turn you don't dodge is wasted points for nimble. Not aiming means 50% chance of hit on her darksaber. Not moving means only using her gun (which is worse than Han's)

Yeah I see her as a Jack of all trades but master of none. She can fill a lot of roles in a list but she wont outshine a melee specialist like Luke or a ranged skirmisher specialist like Han

The combo of no sharpshooter and no charge will keep her in check from being able to do everything super well. Instead she will be a great toolkit who is decent in lots of situations.

On 4/1/2019 at 2:54 AM, thepopemobile100 said:

Impervious and Immune: Pierce don't stack

Are you sure about that ?

Impervious "trigger" if opponent has Pierce in his pool.

Immune: Pierce only say "Opponent can't cancel your block".

IMO, nothing state that both abilities do not stack.

EDIT : From Rule References

A defender with impervious rolls additional dice equal to the pierce x value in the attack pool, regardless of whether pierce is applied to the defender’s dice or to dice rolled by another unit using the guardian keyword during the attack

1 hour ago, RaevenKS said:

Are you sure about that ?

Impervious "trigger" if opponent has Pierce in his pool.

Immune: Pierce only say "Opponent can't cancel your block".

IMO, nothing state that both abilities do not stack.

EDIT : From Rule References

A defender with impervious rolls additional dice equal to the pierce x value in the attack pool, regardless of whether pierce is applied to the defender’s dice or to dice rolled by another unit using the guardian keyword during the attack

It was one of the questions asked in the Q&A part of the FFG panel at Adepticon. They said that there will be a rules update that says they can't be used at the same time.

Just now, jcmonson said:

It was one of the questions asked in the Q&A part of the FFG panel at Adepticon. They said that there will be a rules update that says they can't be used at the same time.

To add on, he also said there will be an update to the RR.

14 hours ago, Thalandar said:

Um, what? Han has sharpshooter 1 and peirce 2, surge to crit and 2 red dice at range 2.

Exactly

He has the same chance of rolling a blank as he does rolling a crit.

Sometimes the opponent moves his stormtroopers abd only gives you royal guard and Palpatine to shoot at. I don't know that you're guaranteed anything.

27 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

Exactly

He has the same chance of rolling a blank as he does rolling a crit.

Sometimes the opponent moves his stormtroopers abd only gives you royal guard and Palpatine to shoot at. I don't know that you're guaranteed anything.

He has a higher chance of rolling a crit than a blank. Red dice with surge of any kind only have one blank side.

21 hours ago, arnoldrew said:

How in the world is she possibly better than Vader in melee? He's objectively better in every way except that she can get more crits, which rarely matters in melee (Armor, but then he has Impact 3). What am I missing?

Because Vader has Pierce, which (before the answer from the Q&A), could activate Impervious, and she'd have Immune: Pierce, so she'd have extra defensive die that Vader couldn't pierce, surge to block and surge to hit, with 5 black die. With the Q&A answer/errata, we know that doesn't work, but the questioner's concern was certainly valid. Even with the Q&A, she's still better at blocking than Vader, so it'll all depend on rolls.

The irony of changing the rules in regards to Impervious/Immune:Pierce stacking is that it proved the guy asking the question right; they once again made Sabine so powerful they had to errata it to make it balanced.

1 hour ago, buckero0 said:

Exactly

He has the same chance of rolling a blank as he does rolling a crit.

Sometimes the opponent moves his stormtroopers abd only gives you royal guard and Palpatine to shoot at. I don't know that you're guaranteed anything.

Never had a problem with Han not getting kills. Oh darn, Royal guards instead of stormtroopers? That 1 guaranteed kill. Emporer? Really? Hes a soft target, usually wounds himself with "and now you shall die" to little effect.

2 minutes ago, Thalandar said:

Never had a problem with Han not getting kills. Oh darn, Royal guards instead of stormtroopers? That 1 guaranteed kill. Emporer? Really? Hes a soft target, usually wounds himself with "and now you shall die" to little effect.

The reason Palp isn't a super good target for Han is because he's immune to Pierce and rolls a red with surge for defense. I mean, I'd still take it as you have a good chance of getting 1 damage through, but he's not as good of a target as Stormtroopers for sure.

3 minutes ago, arnoldrew said:

The reason Palp isn't a super good target for Han is because he's immune to Pierce and rolls a red with surge for defense. I mean, I'd still take it as you have a good chance of getting 1 damage through, but he's not as good of a target as Stormtroopers for sure.

True but if he guardians away the damage to a royal guard, you can kill half the unit in one activation

34 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

Because Vader has Pierce, which (before the answer from the Q&A), could activate Impervious, and she'd have Immune: Pierce, so she'd have extra defensive die that Vader couldn't pierce, surge to block and surge to hit, with 5 black die. With the Q&A answer/errata, we know that doesn't work, but the questioner's concern was certainly valid. Even with the Q&A, she's still better at blocking than Vader, so it'll all depend on rolls.

The irony of changing the rules in regards to Impervious/Immune:Pierce stacking is that it proved the guy asking the question right; they once again made Sabine so powerful they had to errata it to make it balanced.

She's pre-release. Remember card texts are reminders. The RRG is the rules.

Alex has said before in interviews that they try and re-use keywords as much as possible. When they put out new ones or new interactions, sometimes the rules get updated or clarified. They almost never release rules before units use them (Bobba's blast & sharpshooter, and vehicle bases as cover for tracked vehicles are the only two I can think of).

Look at the stream and see Alex's reaction. His facial expression was not like "ohgosh darn we goofed cause we love Sabeen so much (he's fan boy'd over Jynn in contrast before), and we would have gotten away with it if not for you meddling kids!"

He was clearly, "golly you are soooo smart, except your not, can you please wait until we actually release all the rules *before* you start complaining about game breaking stuff maky thanks?" only he said nice-ish things instead.

To be fair, they could make these updates at the same time as a model preview is released in order to avoid any "hey it looks broken, but we're fixing it, promise"

They could.....

They won't....

Just now, crx3800 said:

To be fair, they could make these updates at the same time as a model preview is released in order to avoid any "hey it looks broken, but we're fixing it, promise"

They could.....

They won't....

They're may be additional rules or interactions that are necessary for the models that haven't been previewed yet. But to do a small number of complete updates than a large number of partial ones especially for models that people won't actually be playing yet.

Adding a paragraph to a pdf isn't hard. It's just a matter of if they want to do constant updates or not. Kinda obvious they don't.

Doesn't really bother me, it's just the way it is.

They've posted rules before previews before. Not really sure why it would be taboo now.

1 hour ago, crx3800 said:

Adding a paragraph to a pdf isn't hard. It's just a matter of if they want to do constant updates or not. Kinda obvious they don't.

I have never worked with a gaming company that does things that way. An update to an official rulebook is not a short or simple process because a lot of things have to be considered/reviewed. For that reason, updates to core rules are usually shopped around to a bunch of different people both to double check text, formatting, consistency and also correctness for interactions with other rules based on language. For this reason, most companies prefer smaller number of updates on a set time table especially in a situation like this where the models aren't released or legal in any format.

2 hours ago, Thalandar said:

Never had a problem with Han not getting kills. Oh darn, Royal guards instead of stormtroopers? That 1 guaranteed kill. Emporer? Really? Hes a soft target, usually wounds himself with "and now you shall die" to little effect.

The Emperor is a hard counter to Han. Han cannot pierce Palpy but Palpy can pierce Han and his "luck" with no effort. I have killed both Han and Chewie in the same round with "Now you will die".

Even without "Now you will die", Palpy deals 1.5 crits and 2.25 hits to Han per Round. That means 2 wounds per round if Han is in Heavy Cover or 3-4 wounds if he is not. In return, Han has 2 red dice for 0.5 crits and 1.25 hits. With no cover the Emperor suffers 0.58 wounds. With heavy cover, the Emperor gets only 0.25 wounds. And that is without aim (which benefits the Emperor a lot but Han not so much).

As always, the major problem with Han is his short range. When you shoot at range 2, you are too close to the enemy. Even the IRG can shoot you down with their blasters (8 black dice...) or shoot you twice thanks to Palpy (16 black dice).

I like Han too, he is my 3rd favourite rebel commander but he is not ready to face the Emperor in any way.

2 hours ago, Thalandar said:

Never had a problem with Han not getting kills. Oh darn, Royal guards instead of stormtroopers? That 1 guaranteed kill. Emporer? Really? Hes a soft target, usually wounds himself with "and now you shall die" to little effect.

I guess my dice are different than yours. Mine guarantee me nothing and roll however they want.

My opponents don't always lay out in the open or stand still for me to shoot at. If I run to the front to be within range 2 of more than one target, usually Han will get slaughtered or take serious wounds because you can't always get line of sight to an enemy or stay in cover to get LOS on the gameboards we play on. Han (even with his rerolls) can roll blanks on white dice and he can (and frequently does) roll blanks on his red attack dice. You keep saying that Han is guaranteed 10 wounds in 5 turns, I would counter that and say he doesn't always get that, even Luke doesn't get that and he rolls way more dice.

One word; Gunslinger. 10 wounds a game is a very conservative. He has the potential for killing 4 stormtroopers a round. Round 1 and 2 are usually move into range, although i have made kills in round 2 before. Under the right circumstances, Han can kill 20+ stormtroopers a game, ghough i ve never gotten higher than 14....yet

1 hour ago, Senjius said:

The Emperor is a hard counter to Han. Han cannot pierce Palpy but Palpy can pierce Han and his "luck" with no effort. I have killed both Han and Chewie in the same round with "Now you will die".

Even without "Now you will die", Palpy deals 1.5 crits and 2.25 hits to Han per Round. That means 2 wounds per round if Han is in Heavy Cover or 3-4 wounds if he is not. In return, Han has 2 red dice for 0.5 crits and 1.25 hits. With no cover the Emperor suffers 0.58 wounds. With heavy cover, the Emperor gets only 0.25 wounds. And that is without aim (which benefits the Emperor a lot but Han not so much).

As always, the major problem with Han is his short range. When you shoot at range 2, you are too close to the enemy. Even the IRG can shoot you down with their blasters (8 black dice...) or shoot you twice thanks to Palpy (16 black dice).

I like Han too, he is my 3rd favourite rebel commander but he is not ready to face the Emperor in any way.

You're not wrong, but there is a couple of flaws in what you've stated.

This most minor, and it really doesn't matter, but the Emperor cannot have heavy cover from Han's attack due to sharpshooter. I'm not arguing against the result, but rather the process.

Saying the Emperor hard counters a trooper unit isn't surprising in the least though. He's 210 points unupgraded and 90 points more than Han; he should win almost every fight he's directly involved with. The real trick is actually getting a good hit off with him, which requires another 100 points minimum onto him to do so reliably.

Any opponent who lets you get "Now you will die" off on multiple targets is either new, or just bad frankly. It's an obvious play that isn't hard to get around, especially with Han. One of my favorite ways to deal with it is to bait it out with Han actually with "Sorry about the mess". It can also be negated with Han's three pip, which allows you to stall out and potentially have it never do damage to a unit. The IRG shooting Han, who should have Duck and Cover stapled to him, isn't particularly effective when he has permanent heavy cover and can reroll defense dice which averages better results than red without surge.

Han is short ranged, but so is every commander except Veers. That's clearly not stopping people from using commanders in the fight to great effect.