Greetings,

The rules state out that, with the " assist" action, a helping character give one black die to keep to the performing character (or a white die should he have the correponding skill) and, the number of characters who can help depends basically on the narrative, moreover, Conflict can be spread out between everyone. The most difficult task becomes therefore a walk in the park.

I find that a little too easy and, besides overruling, I don't know what to do what do you think ?

Assist is good, true. But as you rightly stated, the number of possible simultaneous assists depends on what makes narrative sense. I never found there was more need for "overruling" than that. It's up the the character providing the assist to come up with a good reason why this might be beneficial, and the GM has the final say in that. Besides, in structured time, the person assisting does nothing else in their turn, so it has to be a good trade-off.

It's also a good tool in the hands of the GM to break through the defenses of superior characters (or min maxers): use a squad of 4-6 goons and have all but one assist the last one. The Hida in lacquered armor will feel less safe, all of a sudden

Otherwise, it depends on the task: breaking through a reinforced door? No more than two people; others will get in the way. Smooth talking the provincial governor? Maybe one or two, if they have some good supporting argument, but if every PC speaks at the same time, it could be counter-productive.

3 hours ago, Franwax said:

Assist is good, true. But as you rightly stated, the number of possible simultaneous assists depends on what makes narrative sense. I never found there was more need for "overruling" than that. It's up the the character providing the assist to come up with a good reason why this might be beneficial, and the GM has the final say in that. Besides, in structured time, the person assisting does nothing else in their turn, so it has to be a good trade-off.

It's also a good tool in the hands of the GM to break through the defenses of superior characters (or min maxers): use a squad of 4-6 goons and have all but one assist the last one. The Hida in lacquered armor will feel less safe, all of a sudden

Otherwise, it depends on the task: breaking through a reinforced door? No more than two people; others will get in the way. Smooth talking the provincial governor? Maybe one or two, if they have some good supporting argument, but if every PC speaks at the same time, it could be counter-productive.

Thing is, you should at least be consistent as the GM. It's a bit off to rarely allow more than two PCs to assist but whenever it suits you to take a power PC down a peg you're fine with mobbing him with half a dozen helping hands.

The good thing about the rule being so open ended is that when appropriate it does at least allow a large collaboration, which a hard cap wouldn't. The maybe not so good thing is that with some player ingenuity this can be appropriate very often - especially with opportunities allowing for some narrative control of the players over the situation.

12 hours ago, nameless ronin said:

Thing  is, you should at least be consistent as the GM. It's a bit off to rarely allow more than tw  o PCs to assist but whenever it suits you to take a power PC down a peg you're fine with m  obbing him with half a dozen helping hand  s  .

Absolutely! And ganging up on someone is a perfectly reasonable use of assist. Now, PC parties rarely top 6 members and there are at least a couple of divas in any group who will not be reduced to playing sidekick!! There’s your natural cap 😛

For group attacks, the minion limit is pretty reasonable ... Minions are suggested to be limited to 6:1... which makes Bushi Skeletons in groups rather frightful.. 4b + 6w k9... and 42 Fatigue to elimination. Really gave me players a bit of a "clench"...

19 hours ago, nameless ronin said:

Thing is, you should at least be consistent as the GM. It's a bit off to rarely allow more than two PCs to assist but whenever it suits you to take a power PC down a peg you're fine with mobbing him with half a dozen helping hands.

The good thing about the rule being so open ended is that when appropriate it does at least allow a large collaboration, which a hard cap wouldn't. The maybe not so good thing is that with some player ingenuity this can be appropriate very often - especially with opportunities allowing for some narrative control of the players over the situation.

This. I'm fine with massed assistance if you can explain how you're assisting . As noted, it's not likely more than two people could get at a normal-sized door without getting in one another's way. Lifting a small iron chest? 2 people, tops

Lifting a small iron chest slung on two logs? yeah, 4 people can assist.

Coming up with non-stupid ways to assist narratively is rewarded by getting more assists mechanically, much like creative ways to use a given approach is rewarded by letting you use your best ring for a task.

On 3/31/2019 at 4:49 AM, Franwax said:

Assist is good, true. But as you rightly stated, the number of possible simultaneous assists depends on what makes narrative sense. I never found there was more need for "overruling" than that. It's up the the character providing the assist to come up with a good reason why this might be beneficial, and the GM has the final say in that. Besides, in structured time, the person assisting does nothing else in their turn, so it has to be a good trade-off.

It's also a good tool in the hands of the GM to break through the defenses of superior characters (or min maxers): use a squad of 4-6 goons and have all but one assist the last one. The Hida in lacquered armor will feel less safe, all of a sudden

Otherwise, it depends on the task: breaking through a reinforced door? No more than two people; others will get in the way. Smooth talking the provincial governor? Maybe one or two, if they have some good supporting argument, but if every PC speaks at the same time, it could be counter-productive.

Giving assistance uses an action. Not being able to roll means not getting opportunity to use with shuji or those invaluable strifing opportunity. For this reason, I’d almost always allow my PCs to give assistance in social situations.

It does also let you 'drain' a certain amount of strife off the assistee (very useful if they're using fire stance) and 'loan' the use of a relevant advantage, which can be very powerful.