Reaction before Action?

By Luthor Harkon, in Dark Heresy

Just a minor question whereto I could not find an answer.

Is it possible to Dodge (ie. use a Reaction) in the first 'round' of combat (no surprise happening) before ones turn is? So lets say Joe the Guardsman meets Sarah the Assassin and they want to kill each other. So, they roll for Initiative and Joe rolls a 9 (giving him an Initiative of 12 with his AB of 3) and Sarah rolls a 3 (giving her an Initiative of 9 with her AB of 5). Hence, Joe acts first uses Quick Draw to get hold of his Armageddon Pattern Autogun and lets loose with a full auto burst scoring a single hit. Sarah decides to Dodge with her Ag of 51, but stop....is she really allowed to do that (yet)?

Shure she can. you are given one Reaction each round (and must be used when it's not your turn).

In your exampel each Round starts with Joe, and then Sarah gets her turn.

This means she only can use the reaction on his turn.

It doesnt require Sarah to take anny actions prior to using a reaction.

Yes.

Dodge and Parry are reactions that happen when it's not your turn.

Taking a guess at why the question might have been asked, there is no concept in DH similar to the flatfooted state which in D20 persists until you first act yourself.

so inbetween two of my turns I can dodge/parry twice if the attacks happen in a different round?

Depends on how your GM runs things but in games I play in and run we rest reactions on your initiative. So if a player dodges after their initiative for the round then they cannot dodge again until their turn comes up.

Some might chose to reset at the top of each round which could allow for two dodges before a player goes again.

so basically in your campaign I can dodge before my first turn and then in my turn when I get my new dodge I use it to trigger a mechadendrite attack? (like c)

or is the first turn just an exception and the only situation in which I can do it preemptively but loose the dodge before the second turn?(like b)

or can I use my dodge before my first turn and none in my turn then when my turn is over (but the round still isn't) use the one from the second round (which hasn't started) (??)

and if I don't use a dodge before my first turn trigger a mechadendrite attack then my turn is over can I dodge now? (reaction from the next turn exactly like I could before my first action?) (?? like the one before)

I think it's clear and obvious with the "between each of your turns you can use 1 reaction" but when you suddenly can use reactions in your turn I can see only 3 ways to keep track:

a)global-round-wise but that would apply I can dodge twice between my turns if it happens on different rounds

b) you can't dodge before your first turn and your reaction is replenished at the beginning of every of your turns (exactly like your actions)

c) like b but if you should be attacked before your first turn you have a reaction that virtually comes from a round zero which dosn't really exist

(I opt for c altough rules say a afaik)

abstract methods of splitting time into rounds just is to be taken carefully

(like the 30 people go through a door because movement rate and turns allow it but in reality it would be like30 people in 30 seconds meaning a tenth second for each individual but that's offtopic here)

so basically in your campaign I can dodge before my first turn and then in my turn when I get my new dodge I use it to trigger a mechadendrite attack? (like c)

or is the first turn just an exception and the only situation in which I can do it preemptively but loose the dodge before the second turn?(like b)

or can I use my dodge before my first turn and none in my turn then when my turn is over (but the round still isn't) use the one from the second round (which hasn't started) (??)

and if I don't use a dodge before my first turn trigger a mechadendrite attack then my turn is over can I dodge now? (reaction from the next turn exactly like I could before my first action?) (?? like the one before)

No. You seem to be seriously over thinking this.

As combat starts you have a reaction that is generated by your initiative that round even if your turn has not happened yet. If you use your reaction before your turn on round one you do not get another reaction until your turn in round 2. If you do not use your reaction in round one it is lost when your turn in round 2 comes up and is replaced then.

Sirion said:

I think it's clear and obvious with the " between each of your turns you can use 1 reaction"

I think this might be the confusion. You don't get a reaction "between your turns." You get a reaction each Round .

Round , as I'm reading it (on page 187), is an abstract unit of time within the game (roughly 5 seconds). Within each Round , each acting character gets a Turn . So, during Round 1 , Joe has a Turn and Sarah a Turn ... also during Round 1 , both can take a Reaction . At some abstract moment the end of Sarah's Turn and the start of Joe's Turn , Round 1 ends and Round 2 begins. At the beginning of Round 2 both Joe and Sarah have a Reaction available that they can take during Round 2 . Etc.

LuciusT said:

Sirion said:

I think it's clear and obvious with the " between each of your turns you can use 1 reaction"

I think this might be the confusion. You don't get a reaction "between your turns." You get a reaction each Round .

Round , as I'm reading it (on page 187), is an abstract unit of time within the game (roughly 5 seconds). Within each Round , each acting character gets a Turn . So, during Round 1 , Joe has a Turn and Sarah a Turn ... also during Round 1 , both can take a Reaction . At some abstract moment the end of Sarah's Turn and the start of Joe's Turn , Round 1 ends and Round 2 begins. At the beginning of Round 2 both Joe and Sarah have a Reaction available that they can take during Round 2 . Etc.

This here!

I think too much thought on such an abstract chunk of time as well as making that chunk of time dependant on individuals instead of on all involved as a whole is starting to confuse folks and make things break down.

Combat Rounds are set up to be all inclusive for all involved. So, to expound on Lucious' explanation:

There are 4 combatants squaring off, named, conveniently enough, C1, C2, C3, and C4. Also, conveniently enough, after all initiatives were rolled, initiative order corresponded to the number part of their names, so they would act in the fallowing order: C1, C2, C3, then C4.

Round 1 begins.

  • All combatants have a full action and reactions available to them (i1 in most cases, but C3 has Step Aside giving him 2).
  • C1's turn: moves to cover and shoots a single shot at C3.
  • Reaction: C3 dodges the shot.
  • C2's turn: charges C4 and hits.
  • Reaction: C4 parries.
  • C3's turn: duel wields autopistols and returns fire at C1 and fires on C4.
  • Reaction: C1 dodges.
  • C4 is out of reactions and gets hit.
  • C4's turn: Attacks C2 (he would have all-out attacked, but he used his reaction preventing him from doing such).
  • Reaction: C2 parries.
  • All combatants have acted thus ending round 1.

Round 2 begins.

  • All combatants have a full action and all reactions available
  • C1's turn: Duel Wilds his pistols from cover and fires both at C3.
  • Reaction: C3 dodges shot 1.
  • Reaction: C3 dodges shot 2.
  • C2's turn: Lighting Attacks C4.
  • Reaction: C4 parries.
  • C4 gets hit twice because he is out of reactions (and C2 rolled well ;-) )
  • C3's turn: Duel wields autopistols firing at C1 and C4.
  • Reaction: C1 dodges.
  • C4 is still out of reactions and quite dead now.
  • C4's turn: dies.
  • All combatants have used their full action, round ends.

Round 3 begins.

  • All combatants (that aren't dead) get a full action and all reactions available to them.
  • C1's turn: duel wields pistols from cover, firing both at C3.
  • Reaction: C3 dodges.
  • Reaction: C3 dodges.
  • C2's turn: charges C3.
  • C3 is out of reactions and gets hit.
  • C3's turn: fires both pistols at C2.
  • Reaction: C2 dodges.
  • C2 is out of reactions and takes a hit.
  • All combatants that are still alive have used their full action, the round ends.

Round 4 begins

  • ... and so it goes.

Granted, the above combat is incredibly boring and devoid on interesting descriptions and situations, but you get the idea on how Combat Rounds are intended to work. They are an abstract segment of time, a chunk of crazy omg-everythings-happening-at-once-and-is-pure-chaos-fight-for-your-life time and should be applied universally to all combatants. If you try to give each combatant their own time segments and their own "rounds", then things will, of course, break down. With a combat round, all your doing is lifting this chunk of time, defining when it begins and ends, and stating that, during that chunk of time, everybody has enough time to preform 1 (or more, depending on talents) reactions and one full action. Once that chunk of time is done with, you look at another chunk of time in which everyone has enough time to preform 1 full action and 1 or more reactions, etc.

that was I meant with my (a) and it definitely says between to of my turns but inside of two different rounds I can dodge twice (or parry)