Ok so I still get my action at range 0 with grappling struts, right?

If I barrel roll off.... I still don’t flip my card tho? Odd...

Not until you execute a maneuver.

I do get actions tho right???

Just now, JBFancourt said:

I do get actions tho right???

If the struts are open yes.

On 3/29/2019 at 5:29 PM, Hiemfire said:

Not until you execute a maneuver.

A straight 2 maneuver to be exact 🙂 (that is the only maneuver that can be executed while struts are open)

5 minutes ago, nitrobenz said:

A straight 2 maneuver to be exact 🙂 (that is the only maneuver that can be executed while struts are open)

After another reading of the card, my initial assertion might not be correct,

"if you reveal a maneuver other than a 2↑ and are at range 0 of an asteroid or debris cloud, skip your Execute Maneuver step and remove 1 stress token"

Does look like it means to say that if you are not at range 0 of Asteroid or debris it doesn't matter what you reveal. This does make an interesting interaction with Clouds though as that will still trigger you flipping the card from closed to open (thereby ignoring the skip action and target obstruction bonuses), but will not fullfil the clause I quoted above and you will leave the cloud regardless of selected maneuver...

21 minutes ago, nitrobenz said:

After another reading of the card, my initial assertion might not be correct,

"if you reveal a maneuver other than a 2↑ and are at range 0 of an asteroid or debris cloud, skip your Execute Maneuver step and remove 1 stress token"

Does look like it means to say that if you are not at range 0 of Asteroid or debris it doesn't matter what you reveal. This does make an interesting interaction with Clouds though as that will still trigger you flipping the card from closed to open (thereby ignoring the skip action and target obstruction bonuses), but will not fullfil the clause I quoted above and you will leave the cloud regardless of selected maneuver...

1. Only Asteroids and Debris trigger the ability to open the struts when landed on.

2. You can barrel roll off astroids and debris during the perform action step if your struts are open (inclusive of the turn they opened).

3. Struts close after full execution of a maneuver so even if you overlapped or moved through an obstacle before they closed you still get your action.

4. Debris fields don't give a stress token to Vultures with open struts since their check is before full execution if a maneuver but after a maneuver is completed. Check Stress is part of executing a maneuver. (just saying to cover that base before it comes up)

@Hiemfire looks like we're in agreement on all 4 of those points. My internal debate was on whether or not a Vulture starting with struts open, but not touching an obstacle, could execute a maneuver other than a 2↑.

The conclusion I came to is yes, all maneuvers are fair game for an open-strut Vulture in open space.

6 minutes ago, nitrobenz said:

@Hiemfire looks like we're in agreement on all 4 of those points. My internal debate was on whether or not a Vulture starting with struts open, but not touching an obstacle, could execute a maneuver other than a 2↑.

The conclusion I came to is yes, all maneuvers are fair game for an open-strut Vulture in open space.

Yep.

I’m still confused by barrel rolling off an asteroid with struts open. The RR specifically states if you barrel roll through an obstacle that the barrel roll fails. However I get that with struts open you ignore effects of obstacles. So if you barrel roll off a rock with struts open you are then floating in space stationary. And can still turn 90 degrees on future turns? Thematically this interpretation doesn’t really make sense to me. I think the barrel roll fails. I am open to being wrong. My understanding is that a barrel roll is a move not a maneuver. And from reading the card a 2 straight maneuver is the only thing that closes the struts. If you can barrel roll of an asteroid it seems to me you could hypothetically float around the board barrel rolling each turn and rotating 90 degrees.

15 minutes ago, Pinto23 said:

I’m still confused by barrel rolling off an asteroid with struts open. The RR specifically states if you barrel roll through an obstacle that the barrel roll fails. However I get that with struts open you ignore effects of obstacles. So if you barrel roll off a rock with struts open you are then floating in space stationary. And can still turn 90 degrees on future turns? Thematically this interpretation doesn’t really make sense to me. I think the barrel roll fails. I am open to being wrong. My understanding is that a barrel roll is a move not a maneuver. And from reading the card a 2 straight maneuver is the only thing that closes the struts. If you can barrel roll of an asteroid it seems to me you could hypothetically float around the board barrel rolling each turn and rotating 90 degrees.

Re: open struts: the rotation effect requires you to be at range 0 of an obstacle. If you are not at range 0 of an asteroid or debris cloud, you execute whatever maneuver you dialed in normally, and then the card will flip to closed. No spinning in space after a barrel roll.

29 minutes ago, Pinto23 said:

I’m still confused by barrel rolling off an asteroid with struts open. The RR specifically states if you barrel roll through an obstacle that the barrel roll fails. However I get that with struts open you ignore effects of obstacles. So if you barrel roll off a rock with struts open you are then floating in space stationary. And can still turn 90 degrees on future turns? Thematically this interpretation doesn’t really make sense to me. I think the barrel roll fails. I am open to being wrong. My understanding is that a barrel roll is a move not a maneuver. And from reading the card a 2 straight maneuver is the only thing that closes the struts. If you can barrel roll of an asteroid it seems to me you could hypothetically float around the board barrel rolling each turn and rotating 90 degrees.

With struts open the barrel roll does not fail. Card abilities override the Rules Reference when there is a conflict.

" Golden Rules

If a rule in this guide contradicts the Rulebook, the rule in this guide takes precedence.

If the ability of a card conflicts with the rules in this guide, the card ability takes precedence.

If a card ability uses the word "cannot," that effect is absolute and cannot be overridden by other effects.

During an attack or while otherwise resolving an effect involving dice, each die cannot be rerolled more than once."

@Maui. is correct about having to be at range 0 (on top of) the obstacle (asteroid or debris in this case since struts only open when a Vulture equipped with them lands on those) for the rotation to happen.

Sorry. I'm still confused on the last responses.

If my vulture, stuts open, is on an obstacle and would like to rotate 90 degrees I dail in a maneuver that allows me to rotate. Once I'm rotated I can take my action, i.e. barrel roll off the obstacle for instance. Right?

1 hour ago, Slade said:

Sorry. I'm still confused on the last responses.

If my vulture, stuts open, is on an obstacle and would like to rotate 90 degrees I dail in a maneuver that allows me to rotate. Once I'm rotated I can take my action, i.e. barrel roll off the obstacle for instance. Right?

Yes.

11 hours ago, Slade said:

Sorry. I'm still confused on the last responses.

If my vulture, stuts open, is on an obstacle and would like to rotate 90 degrees I dail in a maneuver that allows me to rotate. Once I'm rotated I can take my action, i.e. barrel roll off the obstacle for instance. Right?

Follow-up question: say I barrel roll off of the obstacle, but my struts are still open (landing mode). Next turn, I perform a NEW maneuver and land on a NEW obstacle. By my reading of the card, I'd land safely (I ignore obstacles while I move), but then flip my card to Closed (flight mode), and have to deal with any effects of overlapping that obstacle (no shot for an asteroid, etc), and I'd have to move the subsequent turn...?

Correct. Rolling off a rock and keeping the struts open is almost never worth doing.

17 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Correct. Rolling off a rock and keeping the struts open is almost never worth doing.

Almost never? Debris Field and Gas Cloud effects are fully canceled by that sequence and you could still roll off the Asteroid to get your attack. It also opens up maneuver options the turn after you rotate and then roll since you're not stuck with a 2 straight.

I have two questions for you

1.) So is overlapping only when you stop on the rock or also when your template crosses over the obstacle? I ask because it says while you execute an maneuver not when you complete a maneuver.

2.) Can you barrel roll onto a rock and open the grappling struts, or is it only prior to the perform action step?

19 minutes ago, SILENT FURY said:

I have two questions for you

1.) So is overlapping only when you stop on the rock or also when your template crosses over the obstacle? I ask because it says while you execute an maneuver not when you complete a maneuver.

2.) Can you barrel roll onto a rock and open the grappling struts, or is it only prior to the perform action step?

1. overlapping is not the same as moving through, no. you can only flip the struts if you overlap, as in ending up on top of the obstacle.

2. the perform action step comes after executing a maneuver, so you cannot barrel roll onto a rock and open the struts, no. barrel rolling is not a maneuver, it's a movement.

Overlapping normally includes moving over but not ending on, but struts specify that you have to end at r0 or the obstacle.

2 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Overlapping normally includes moving over but not ending on, but struts specify that you have to end at r0 or the obstacle.

nope. overlap is on page 14 of the RR.

"While a ship executes a maneuver or otherwise moves, it overlaps an object if the ship’s final position would physically be on top of an object."

moving through and overlapping are very different. struts don't specify you have to end at range 0 of an obstacle either, other than the fact that you have to overlap (and overlapping an obstacle is effectively being at range 0 of that obstacle). it does say no more than one or fewer other friendly ships can be at range 0 of the obstacle for you to have the option to flip the card, though.

Ugh. Sorry.