FFG announced that Hyperspace will be limited and rotating. I think that's fantastic and important for the health of the game. I know I'm very critical of FFG but they've made some great decisions here. I've got to give credit where credit is due.

FFG Event Stream

On the one hand, I am not a fan of Hyperspace. On the other, I am a casual player and may not really have a dog in this fight. It is an interesting decision that I hope will help prevent power creep.

Oh snap it is rotating? Sweet! The last update to the Hyperspace legal list got me thinking that it might continue to balloon until it just became Extended. This is great though, Hyperspace can be something different forever, thus justifying it's existence. I've been hoping this is how they'd do it since I got over being mad at it's initial roster, and realized this was a possibility. Can't wait to see how it changes in 3-ish months.

I am ok with it, as long as both formats exist.

15 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

I am ok with it, as long as both formats exist.

This.

Scummy, you’re my hero, usually.

3 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

This.

Scummy, you’re my hero, usually.

Well, in fairness I did have my time of rage over Hyperspace taking over. But I got over it, and I helped form an extended group.

That, and I tried a Hyperspace event and still had fun.

So now? I play both, and am just happy to get out to a game.

Well I am not a fan of bans and rotations is basically a time ban.

Personally I don't see a need for rotation what-so-ever as the points are adjustable so if something is dominating the meta too much you can just increase the squadron cost to prohibitive levels and fix that solution. The whole argument is that less ships make it easier to balance is a rather lazy argument. Especially the first iterations of hyperspace put on strangulating restrictions on types of ships making the conversion kits a $50 waste of a purchase. They corrected this but it is too little too late.

There is no credit to be given here. Only skepticism towards OrgPlay and their ineffectiveness to make an enjoyable competitive setting.

Hyperspace will be rotating for 3 of the factions until the other factions catch up, realistically - so at least through what, the end of the year? Maybe later?

Hyperspace seems to be really fun so far, and there are extended events in many areas also. Conversion kits are not a waste of money at all.

3 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Especially the first iterations of hyperspace put on strangulating restrictions on types of ships making the conversion kits a $50 waste of a purchase. They corrected this but it is too little too late.

There is no credit to be given here. Only skepticism towards OrgPlay and their ineffectiveness to make an enjoyable competitive setting.

Or.... just play extended format and enjoy the conversion kit materials. I play mostly extended, so I get to use whatever I want.

Dont have an extended event in your area? Start one! I’ve been working with a game store by me, and not only have we gotten a regular crew going, the game store bought us a seasonal kit for our open play league!

6 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Well I am not a fan of bans and rotations is basically a time ban.

Personally I don't see a need for rotation what-so-ever as the points are adjustable so if something is dominating the meta too much you can just increase the squadron cost to prohibitive levels and fix that solution. The whole argument is that less ships make it easier to balance is a rather lazy argument. Especially the first iterations of hyperspace put on strangulating restrictions on types of ships making the conversion kits a $50 waste of a purchase. They corrected this but it is too little too late.

There is no credit to be given here. Only skepticism towards OrgPlay and their ineffectiveness to make an enjoyable competitive setting.

I fail to see the material difference between rotating something out of being legal and points-nerfing it into oblivion, save the fact that players will complain that their favorite ships are still legal but over costed.

Rotation is the only real way to maintain a healthy meta, 1.0 was a perfect example of what happens when the game becomes bloated with constant power creep to sell ships and the game suffers because of it.

the fact that Extended exists means that Hyperspace is not the format that should matter for you anyway.

33 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

The whole argument is that less ships make it easier to balance is a rather lazy argument.

That was the argument when it was thought that Hyperspace would eventually grow into Extended, just at a slower rate. Is that still the argument with it being a rotation, though? It seems to me that a rotation can make the game much more exciting, as not only does it force meta-changes, but it forces individual players to try new things and approach lists in new ways.

16 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

That was the argument when it was thought that Hyperspace would eventually grow into Extended, just at a slower rate. Is that still the argument with it being a rotation, though? It seems to me that a rotation can make the game much more exciting, as not only does it force meta-changes, but it forces individual players to try new things and approach lists in new ways.

I'd say that if FFG was taking the less ships to balance stance we would probably see a hyperspace worlds instead of an extended worlds, too.

I'm not loving rotation - I'd prefer if hyperspace just expanded over time. I have two reasons:

1 - This dilutes one of the current advantages of Hyperspace, accessibility. The current list of Hyperspace-legal ships is mostly the same as the ships sold for 2.0 (not entirely, but mostly) which helps newer players feel less disadvantaged compared to veterans with more options in Extended. With rotation, older 2.0 expansions will become non-legal for one game mode, which will impact newer players if they impulse-buy, and also players who want to return after time away from the game whose collection might be rotated out.

2 - Unless certain iconic ships are exempted from rotation (like X-Wings and TIE/lns), it's going to sooner or later end up like late 1.0 where the Star Wars feel is compromised because all the ships on the table are obscure ones from 90s videogames and comics.

43 minutes ago, dsul413 said:

I'd say that if FFG was taking the less ships to balance stance we would probably see a hyperspace worlds instead of an extended worlds, too.

Precisely, OrgPlay has only focused on Hyperspace and the rest of Extended is let out in the cold. Worlds will be Hyperspace as Hyperspace is the de-facto completive format. I said this earlier and some said that I was proven wrong when the B-wing point adjustments were made but then B-wings were entered into hyperspace. Hyperspace is just taking away from X-wing and calling it its own format. I don't like it when options are being removed. Hyperspace is not going to be the go between until 2.0 encompasses all of extended, it is the ban/no-ban list for official competitive formats.

Otherwise in simple math

Hyperspace format < X-wing Miniatures

27 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Precisely, OrgPlay has only focused on Hyperspace and the rest of Extended is let out in the cold. Worlds will be Hyperspace as Hyperspace is the de-facto completive format. I said this earlier and some said that I was proven wrong when the B-wing point adjustments were made but then B-wings were entered into hyperspace. Hyperspace is just taking away from X-wing and calling it its own format. I don't like it when options are being removed. Hyperspace is not going to be the go between until 2.0 encompasses all of extended, it is the ban/no-ban list for official competitive formats.

Otherwise in simple math

 Hyperspace format < X-wing Miniatures

No.

They've already said Worlds is extended, which is my point. They are not focusing on hyperspace only.

I just want post one defense of balance via hyperspace rotation. Rotation requires certain ships that are always available to be on the hyperspace roster. In other words, a core set. We've seen that roster get big, so there could be a radical shift in what's available, while keeping wave 1's non-kit stuff legal all the time. That means everything is balanced against X-wings and Tie swarms over time. It's possible that they could screw it up, but that could happen anyway. This seems like a decent way to go, but like, that's just my opinion man.

Edit: others have already said it but extended isn't dead and got adjustments too. Hyperspace could help spot certain issues faster through a rotating limited format.

2 hours ago, Marinealver said:

Personally I don't see a need for rotation what-so-ever as the points are adjustable so if something is dominating the meta too much you can just increase the squadron cost to prohibitive levels and fix that solution.

Ah yes, the old points adjustment rotation: "I don't want a second format which bans some ships alongside the more inclusive format, I want a single format where most of the ships are nerfed into the ground and will never be played". Go play 1.0.

3 hours ago, AceWing said:

I think that's fantastic and important for the health of the game.

100% agreed. The one thing more important than balance is change. If the game doesn't change, even a really fun meta eventually becomes stale.

1 hour ago, Dasharr said:

Unless certain iconic ships are exempted from rotation (like X-Wings and TIE/lns)

If I'm recalling correctly during the Q&A that was answered as they'll try their best to keep those 2 chassis in since they are the ships from the Core set. If you're interested, this is GSP's recording of the FFG panel from Adepticon today. Sorry I don't have a timestamp, but it was asked about during the Q&A section:

Epic is back ? Now this is cool ! Can't wait !

Turns out, I actually wrote on article on exactly why partitioning your game across formats is healthy and frequently necessary!

5 hours ago, Hippie Moosen said:

Oh snap it is rotating? Sweet! The last update to the Hyperspace legal list got me thinking that it might continue to balloon until it just became Extended. This is great though, Hyperspace can be something different forever, thus justifying it's existence. I've been hoping this is how they'd do it since I got over being mad at it's initial roster, and realized this was a possibility. Can't wait to see how it changes in 3-ish months.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Tie advanced was phased out (cause of Tie interceptor) and Y-Wing (cause of B-wing). Pilot Luke would also have to be retired though, for balance, and I don’t think that’s going to happen so... who knows?

9 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Tie advanced was phased out (cause of Tie interceptor) and Y-Wing (cause of B-wing). Pilot Luke would also have to be retired though, for balance, and I don’t think that’s going to happen so... who knows?

I'd say striker instead of advanced. Vader won't get left out.

2 hours ago, Arkanta974 said:

Epic is back ? Now this is cool ! Can't wait !

Indeed, but that topic is here

4 hours ago, Dasharr said:

2 - Unless certain iconic ships are exempted from rotation (like X-Wings and TIE/lns), it's going to sooner or later end up like late 1.0 where the Star Wars feel is compromised because all the ships on the table are obscure ones from 90s videogames and comics.

That's a fair observation - I'd like to think that the iconic ships for each faction - T-65, T-70, TIE/ln, TIE/fo, Delta, Vulture Droid and.....Firespray or Fang, I guess? (probably Fang to avoid being the only consistant larger ship) - would be left in regardless of rotation.

5 hours ago, Dasharr said:

1 - This dilutes one of the current advantages of Hyperspace, accessibility. The current list of Hyperspace-legal ships is mostly the same as the ships sold for 2.0 (not entirely, but mostly) which helps newer players feel less disadvantaged compared to veterans with more options in Extended. With rotation, older 2.0 expansions will become non-legal for one game mode, which will impact newer players if they impulse-buy, and also players who want to return after time away from the game whose collection might be rotated out.

Hyperspace will remain the currently sold ships, and as such will always remain the beginner friendly format. We don't know yet how quickly the 'old' 2.0 ships are rotated out, that's true. But we can guess that the scenario you're describing will be very rare: a player has to join xwing, buy for a wave or two, and then quit for likely few years. And even then he still has a format where he can play his things.

[e: nevermind the part in brackets, I completely misread your point initially! Hyperspace always had roughly third of ships that were not newly on the shelves. With rotations confirmed and the inclusion of extended ships confirmed, I expect that to remain roughly stable. So if you liked Hyperspace so far, you'll like it as much in the future.]

5 hours ago, Dasharr said:

2 - Unless certain iconic ships are exempted from rotation (like X-Wings and TIE/lns), it's going to sooner or later end up like late 1.0 where the Star Wars feel is compromised because all the ships on the table are obscure ones from 90s videogames and comics.

They confirmed in the panel that Xwings and TIE /LNs will be included in most if not all rotations.

Does that change your opinion a bit?