Yeah, so this all seems to be frustration over a:

Sticker that says "exclusive" somewhere on it

+

A paint job that is mediocre, produced in the hundreds, and easily replicated or bested in 2 hours tops by your average painter.

At first I felt bad, but now this is hilarious. It's Beanie Babies! Collectible this, limited edition that, con exlusive; and they all do the exact same thing, which is basically nothing.

I can empathize with you not getting what you wanted, but in this circumstance, the only difference is a sticker and a paint scheme that people like me would probably paint over anyways. I'll give you a free commission if you like (just $ for shipping and the mini) and I bet a lot of your local painters would be happy to oblige as well.

There are just... so many other things in this game more important than this. Collectibles just aren't worth the chase. They're just pieces of plastic, made in a factory, and tinted a slightly different color. And when you do get them, they're either going to sit there and do nothing or perform and look 100% identical to the one, bought off the shelf, that I will paint for my buddy.

If you would not be happy with a 100% identically painted droid fighter, then all of your frustration is over a sticker on a box; aka that thing that ends up in the trash, 5 minutes after purchasing. A sticker.

12 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Seriously? That's like saying a bully who pushes me down and takes my lunch money is then a nice guy for offering to buy me a sandwich.

His tone has mostly come off as the victor with the spoils who deserves his upcharge.

Your analogy doesn't make sense, especailly considering, even metaphorically, he never did that to you in this thread. Elevating oneself doesn't bring one down. If you feel small, it is because you put yourself into that position.

12 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Oh, I've learned a lot of things, alright. Not much of it is pleasant.

The existence of this thread proves not only otherwise, but further proving my point that you remain entitled, and not wanting to rise above your circumstances, but staying in it.

9 minutes ago, ThinkingB said:

Yeah, so this all seems to be frustration over a:

Sticker that says "exclusive" somewhere on it

, the only difference is a sticker and a paint scheme

Well, I'd say the conversation has morphed into a discussion about scalping. And since the ship can command 5x on the secondary market, clearly the issue of a sticker has more value than you place on it.

14 minutes ago, Shadowshand said:

Your analogy doesn't make sense, especailly considering, even metaphorically, he never did that to you in this thread.

I believe Darth Meanie is referring to the act of scalping itself, not merely the posts in the thread.

3 hours ago, Rapture said:

Scalping (although I only know the word to be used with respect to tickets) is the fault of FFG in this case and blaming any individual reseller is unfair. Something that is worth X is being sold for less than X. People are buying it and seeing it for a profit. That is how every store that you have every stepped into works.

There's a massive difference between a retail store buying a non-limited item in bulk quantities from a wholesaler to sell at a recommended price for an agreed upon percentage profit margin, and buying a limited item sold by a producer directly to consumers for a retail price with no other intention but to immediately resell the item for multiples of the original price paid.

It is scalping by definition, and it is always the fault of those willing to exploit people and the situation, not the originator of the product. I've seen that argument used to defend ticket scalping in the past too, and it has never flown. Could FFG have handled it differently to prevent this? Maybe. Could they have stopped it without changing their concept of selling over earning? Doubtful. Would they support this kind of action? I can't imagine so.

12 minutes ago, Shadowshand said:

The existence of this thread proves not only otherwise, but further proving my point that you remain entitled, and not wanting to rise above your circumstances, but staying in it.

For what it's worth, I don't think the OP was annoyed about not getting one so much as making the effort to go and get one but being beaten by those who had zero intentions to ever use them. I doubt they were the only potential genuine purchaser put out by the actions of what - judging by the Ebay listings - was a not insignificant number of people.

I mean, as much as I sympathise with you for not getting what you wanted... I feel like it's really not this big of a deal. Like many have said, just buy a can of mettalic bronze paint and you're done! You can even add a little darth meanie initial somewhere to truly make it ''One-of-a-kind''. You seem focused on the miniatures, yet don't realise that for most other miniatures games, models don't even come painted, and painting them yourself is half the fun of the hobby.

For example, if I were to show you this :


this is a currently limited run of one-of-a-kind vulture! The stocks are super limited, and there will never be more. You have no way of knowing if underneath there is a bronze paintjob or a gray camo paintjob. How much is that worth now? Would you make the same effort of moving and buying one just to have one?

16 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Well, I'd say the conversation has morphed into a discussion about scalping. And since the ship can command 5x on the secondary market, clearly the issue of a sticker has more value than you place on it.

I think a lot of people can be fooled into making poorly informed decision. A fool and his money are quickly parted, as always.

I pity the people who are able to care this much over a sticker. If people didn't place any value on the sticker, there would be no reason to resell.

Like, who cares about the sticker scalpers? If I bought something like this, I absolutely would put it up on ebay because why would I not want a fool to give me money at their discretion?

I really just cannot fathom the mentality of placing value on this particular item. Literally just support your LGS and paint the ships people.

5 hours ago, Rapture said:

Scalping (although I only know the word to be used with respect to tickets) is the fault of FFG in this case and blaming any individual reseller is unfair. Something that is worth X is being sold for less than X. People are buying it and seeing it for a profit. That is how every store that you have every stepped into works.

The difference is stores provide a necessary service. It's simply not practical for every customer to go to the manufacture directly and acquire their own item, that's why various layers of intermediary exist. In many situations if there wasn't a store selling the item than the customer wouldn't be able to get said item.

That is not the case when it comes to scalping. If FFG are giving away 100 items it's perfectly practical for 100 customers to travel there and pick them up. The scalper does nothing but extract money from the system for themselves. They do also alter which people end up getting the item, but that's just a change in which customer is satisfied and which isn't, it's no net benefit to the customer group.

BlueAce is right - scalpers occupy the moral low ground and I for one look down on them with disgust.

Oh, ninjad

1 hour ago, ThinkingB said:

If I bought something like this, I absolutely would put it up on ebay because why would I not want a fool to give me money at their discretion?

The point is why would you buy it in the first place if you didn't want it? If it's because you knew it was a) rare and b) highly desired amongst certain "fools" and that if you could get it before them then you could extract money from them they you're behaving extremely selfishly.

Also, it's not very nice to call people fools simply for valuing things you don't value.

2 hours ago, DarthSempai said:

I mean, as much as I sympathise with you for not getting what you wanted... I feel like it's really not this big of a deal. Like many have said, just buy a can of mettalic bronze paint and you're done! You can even add a little darth meanie initial somewhere to truly make it ''One-of-a-kind''. You seem focused on the miniatures, yet don't realise that for most other miniatures games, models don't even come painted, and painting them yourself is half the fun of the hobby.

For example, if I were to show you this :


this is a currently limited run of one-of-a-kind vulture! The stocks are super limited, and there will never be more. You have no way of knowing if underneath there is a bronze paintjob or a gray camo paintjob. How much is that worth now? Would you make the same effort of moving and buying one just to have one?

Well, I've got one with a special sticker on it:

We'll start the bidding at $75. . .

Unique in that it's the only anxious fighter droid in the fleet. Can be used for panic attack builds only insofar as it is literally having a panic attack.

3 hours ago, NakedDex said:

For what it's worth, I don't think the OP was annoyed about not getting one so much as making the effort to go and get one but being beaten by those who had zero intentions to ever use them. I doubt they were the only potential genuine purchaser put out by the actions of what - judging by the Ebay listings - was a not insignificant number of people.

Thank you.

And really, that's the rub:

If this had been a merit-based prize, and the winners decided it was lame enough that they wanted to sell it, or wanted to used the money to off-set their trip, then that's fine. I can't have one because I won't play tournaments, and I won't buy one for $$$ because I don't care that much.

But by putting it up for sale, FFG made this for the community at large. And what we are getting is some of the community screwing the rest of the community only because they were able to get in line early and often.

Surprisingly (to me} some people see that as saavy entrepreneurship, while others view it as a **** move.

If FFG wants to keep doing this, why don't they just do it the old-fashioned way: mail in your proof-of-purchases and $5 for shipping, and get your alt-mini. Everyone can have one that wants one, and if you don't care, you save an envelope.

54 minutes ago, mazz0 said:

The difference is stores provide a necessary service. It's simply not practical for every customer to go to the manufacture directly and acquire their own item, that's why various layers of intermediary exist. In many situations if there wasn't a store selling the item than the customer wouldn't be able to get said item.

That is not the case when it comes to scalping. If FFG are giving away 100 items it's perfectly practical for 100 customers to travel there and pick them up. The scalper does nothing but extract money from the system for themselves. They do also alter which people end up getting the item, but that's just a change in which customer is satisfied and which isn't, it's no net benefit to the customer group.

BlueAce is right - scalpers occupy the moral low ground and I for one look down on them with disgust.

Yes I do alter which customers get them. It has changed from 3 people who were at adepticon to an italian, a Californian, and a dude from Utah. They all play x wing and i guess get cool bragging rights for being one of the few if not only people in there playgroup with the shiny collectible vulture. While you may look at me with disgust I get to smile on. I made 3 people really happy, they knew what they were buying and what the price would be. Nothing about it was sneaky, shady, exploitative, or immoral. They got happy for having he ship they otherwise couldn't get and I got some extra hobby money to buy stuff with like more x wing ships, or paints, or infinity figures. So all in all I'd say it's a win win.

5 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Thank you.

And really, that's the rub:

If this had been a merit-based prize, and the winners decided it was lame enough that they wanted to sell it, or wanted to used the money to off-set their trip, then that's fine. I can't have one because I won't play tournaments, and I won't buy one for $$$ because I don't care that much.

But FFG made this for the community at large. And what we are getting is some of the community screwing the rest of the community only because they were able to get in line early and often.

If FFG wants to keep doing this, why don't they just do it the old-fashioned way: mail in your proof-of-purchases and $5 for shipping, and get your alt-mini. Everyone can have one that wants one, and if you don't care, you save an envelope.

I think the statement saying ffg made this for the community at large is where we disagree and may have been the source for being upset. I dont remember anywhere in the article them saying this was for the community at large. I don't think they even said it was gonna be for all of the adepticon attendees. A couple years ago I did exactly what you did I drove up the day of and got there at around noon. I went up there because I wanted to get an early release of the new book by corvus belli (human sphere) instead of waiting a few months for the preorder. I got there at noon went in line and the person who was 5 people in front of me had the last 3 books in his hand. He made his purchase and they announced they were sold out. They didnt have a 1 per customer limit which was disappointing and so some people buying a bunch for other people made it so I didnt get one. Of course I was disappointed and upset but I realized at the end of the day I overestimated how many they had and how early I had to get up there.

So I learned that alright next year I won't let that happen again and so when they released the next thing a adepticon early I was able to get one because I showed up early for the lines. I learned that popular stuff was gonna go fast and these companies aren't gonna bring a huge amount. They don't want to ship anything back ideally so it's better to under supply than over supply. When ffg announced the vulture droids I knew the same thing was gonna happen if not faster since x wing is a hugely popular game and I figured anything starwars is always gonna have people going after it. I also counted on the ticket vouchers because they've done that at gencon for the past couple of years.

The best thing to do is to learn from it. Granted I understand it's a sucky way to learn it but I bet next year if there is a limited ship you really want you're gonna get it because this time you'll show up at 9 and be one of the first ones in line. If you need vilify me or anyone else who is selling the stuff then fine I guess but that doesnt change anything. Holding on to that anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to get sick. It's easy to take potshots on people who are making money especially if its in a way you or others doing agree with but if you really want a vulture droid your best bet is to talk to someone on the facebook group and make them a good offer. These aren't gonna stay at 100 bucks and people will sell them for way less. I think you can easily get them for 40-50 dollars shipped. That or wait for gencon because o have a suspicion they're gonna use the vulture droids again for a con exclusive ship again. Either way I'm not trying to rub your face in anything or act like I'm better or superior to you, I generally hope you get what makes ya happy which I presume would be a vulture droid.

17 minutes ago, BlueAce said:

Yes I do alter which customers get them. It has changed from 3 people who were at adepticon to an italian, a Californian, and a dude from Utah. They all play x wing and i guess get cool bragging rights for being one of the few if not only people in there playgroup with the shiny collectible vulture. While you may look at me with disgust I get to smile on. I made 3 people really happy, they knew what they were buying and what the price would be. Nothing about it was sneaky, shady, exploitative, or immoral. They got happy for having he ship they otherwise couldn't get and I got some extra hobby money to buy stuff with like more x wing ships, or paints, or infinity figures. So all in all I'd say it's a win win.

Your maths is wrong.

Thanks to you three people got Shiny Vultures. If you hadn't scalped three different people would have got Shiny Vultures. So there's no net benefit to others from your action - some won, some lost. The difference is thanks to you the people who got Shiny Vultures had to pay more. So there's a net loss, for the people who aren't you. Not win win. You win, everyone else loses, on average.

7 minutes ago, mazz0 said:

Your maths is wrong.

Thanks to you three people got Shiny Vultures. If you hadn't scalped three different people would have got Shiny Vultures. So there's no net benefit to others from your action - some won, some lost. The difference is thanks to you the people who got Shiny Vultures had to pay more. So there's a net loss, for the people who aren't you. Not win win. You win, everyone else loses, on average.

These people wanted one but didn't want to incur the extra cost of travel expenses to get one. So I think overall they still won. Again they all were incredibly happy and two of them asked me if I was going to celebration and could get the vader's for them.

Think about this. Say you are only interested in the vulture droid. You dont want to play any tournaments or anything at adepticon. That $20 ship is now gonna cost you way more than $20 to get. Luckily adepticon doesnt require you to buy a badge for the vendor hall so you're good there. But let me use the Californian for example. The cost to getting to Chicago is way higher than $20. Let's say you're gonna forgo a hotel and only be there for 1 day. You're either driving and spending a ton on gas and putting a bunch of miles on your vehicle or your buying a plane ticket that costs what atleast 300 dollars? If you only wanted the vulture droid there was no way of getting it for 20 dollars or close to it unless you lived near by.

Well, @BlueAce , I'll agree that everything you said is true, from a certain point of view. But as @mazz0 said, your maths are wrong, since I was a loser to negate one of your derived winners, and your happy deed is a for-profit enterprise, making you happier than any of us.

I suppose that in the long run, it is what it is. Three people are happy at a premium, I really don't need a golden vulture, and no one was irreparably harmed.

Maybe next year I'll be at Adepticon all weekend and have a better chance of success than just one try. Or maybe I now know the effort to score a Limited Edition isn't worth the loss of a morning and the cost of a jar of Testors Gold.

In any event, I think we have said all there is to say, and this thread should be given the opportunity to slide off the front page.

14 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Well, @BlueAce , I'll agree that everything you said is true, from a certain point of view. But as @mazz0 said, your maths are wrong, since I was a loser to negate one of your derived winners, and your happy deed is a for-profit enterprise, making you happier than any of us.

I suppose that in the long run, it is what it is. Three people are happy at a premium, I really don't need a golden vulture, and no one was irreparably harmed.

Maybe next year I'll be at Adepticon all weekend and have a better chance of success than just one try. Or maybe I now know the effort to score a Limited Edition isn't worth the loss of a morning and the cost of a jar of Testors Gold.

In any event, I think we have said all there is to say, and this thread should be given the opportunity to slide off the front page.

For sure and I don't deny at all that I may have come out ahead happier or more of a winner or what have you. Definitely in life all the wins won't always be equal, in my experience it's usually not that way. The unfortunate side of it is where people arent able to get one which as we both know is one of the sucky parts of life sometimes. It is the unfortunate math of it much like if you were the guy who got the last one of the day the people behind you would all be seen as those who lost in the equation against your win.

All I can say is, this is what you get under the decentralized anarchy that the Rebellion supports. You'd never see this sort of grifting under the Emperor's New Order!

1 hour ago, BlueAce said:

These people wanted one but didn't want to incur the extra cost of travel expenses to get one. So I think overall they still won. Again they all were incredibly happy and two of them asked me if I was going to celebration and could get the vader's for them.

Think about this. Say you are only interested in the vulture droid. You dont want to play any tournaments or anything at adepticon. That $20 ship is now gonna cost you way more than $20 to get. Luckily adepticon doesnt require you to buy a badge for the vendor hall so you're good there. But let me use the Californian for example. The cost to getting to Chicago is way higher than $20. Let's say you're gonna forgo a hotel and only be there for 1 day. You're either driving and spending a ton on gas and putting a bunch of miles on your vehicle or your buying a plane ticket that costs what atleast 300 dollars? If you only wanted the vulture droid there was no way of getting it for 20 dollars or close to it unless you lived near by.

I never said those three people didn't win, I said three other people lost to make up for it, plus those three paid over the odds, so it was a net loss for everyone who isn't you, as a group.

I totally understand the problem faced by people who don't have easy access to the special editions due to lack of proximity or desire to enter tournaments, I face both those problems myself, and I wish all special edition stuff was available to everyone, but scalping is not a solution, cos... maths.

11 minutes ago, mazz0 said:

I never said those three people didn't win, I said three other people lost to make up for it, plus those three paid over the odds, so it was a net loss for everyone who isn't you, as a group.

I totally understand the problem faced by people who don't have easy access to the special editions due to lack of proximity or desire to enter tournaments, I face both those problems myself, and I wish all special edition stuff was available to everyone, but scalping is not a solution, cos... maths.

It obviously wasn't. None of them were for ced to buy the ship.

12 minutes ago, powersink said:

It obviously wasn't. None of them were for ced to buy the ship.

They weren't the ones who lost, but their win is cancelled out by the loss of the ones who didn't get the ships.

I'll try explaining slightly differently:

Let's say we have ten Items available. We also have a group of people who desire Items, we'll call them The Group. We also have The Scalper.

I'll describe two situations:

Situation 1 - The Scalper Does Nothing

• The Group receives 10 Items between them

Situation 2 - The Scalper Scalps

• The Group receives 10 Items between them
• Money is transferred from The Group to The Scalper

The individual members of The Group who get Items cancel each other out, but The Group as a whole receives no more Items, it just loses money in Situation 2.

2 minutes ago, mazz0 said:

They weren't the ones who lost, but their win is cancelled out by the loss of the ones who didn't get the ships.

I'll try explaining slightly differently:

Let's say we have ten Items available. We also have a group of people who desire Items, we'll call them The Group. We also have The Scalper.

I'll describe two situations:

Situation 1 - The Scalper Does Nothing

• The Group receives 10 Items between them

Situation 2 - The Scalper Scalps

• The Group receives 10 Items between them
• Money is transferred from The Group to The Scalper

The individual members of The Group who get Items cancel each other out, but The Group as a whole receives no more Items, it just loses money in Situation 2.

What about how much each group values those items? The group in situation 2 potentially gains more value.

Just now, powersink said:

What about how much each group values those items? The group in situation 2 potentially gains more value.

Yeah, or they might get less, or one group might be child molesters who don't deserve happiness. Not really any point speculating about who might feel a certain way though is there?