3 hours ago, BlueAce said:

The great thing about capitalism is if it's good enough there will be people who want to buy it. To someone it might be worth 20 bucks but to another person it might look so good they would be willing to spend 50 bucks and there might be someone who loves it so much they would spend 100 bucks for it. No different than painters doing commissions.

You _really_ need to stop confusing capitalism with the free market.

8 minutes ago, OoALEJOoO said:

Buying the limited-edition vulture ship to sell it later for a profit is exactly the same as buying stocks (or any other good) and then selling it later for a profit.

Not really. While stocks are limited, I don't have to drive over to the NYSE to buy them.

1 hour ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

But the extremes to which you are taking your other arguments against the existence of Con-Exclusive Paintjobs makes them neither valid or sound, and you're unlikely to win over any hearts or minds from the rest of the community.

Please don't confuse "my level of passion and condemnation" with the fact that I am trying to stay involved in the thread I created. Nothing annoys me more than someone who drops a steaming pile and then walks away from the conversation he/she started.

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I mean, we all know this post wouldn't exist if you got to go home and play with one of the shiny vultures yesterday.

Maybe? I still think that it's important that people know that these trinkets are not ubiquitously for sale just because you show up.

Sure, I was pissed on Thursday when I started the thread, not just because I didn't get a shiney, but because I wasted time and gas for nothing. Now, like I said above, I'm fine with it all, a little disappointed with the process, and just holding up my end of the conversation.

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That said, the rest of your points are ridiculous, and you're going to rightly get called on how silly they are until you back off of them and admit they are unfair extensions of your beef with this:

• X-Wing is a collectible game now
• The alt-paint Con Exclusives are analogous to "rares" in CCGs
• That this is problematic, while other exclusive swag (mats, templates, cards, dice) are not because it's called a " Miniatures Game"
• People who sell stuff on the secondary market are immoral

I concede that all of the above have mostly become overstatements of my true position that have evolved over the course of the thread. I have even already stated above that reselling isn't the evil--scalping is.

I still laugh at the idea that a scalper who ropes a couple of friends into a car ride to make the whole gig cost-effective to doing the gaming community some sort of Good Deed. Those poor, poor Europeans. . .as if he would tell some American who wanted the thing for a grand, "No, I'm so sorry, Belgium needs one."

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So it's not the exclusivity in general that is provoking this level of condemnation, but the fact that you in particular didn't get one. Like the famous primatologist Frans de Waal has noted: Capuchin monkeys seem to have some proto-sense of 'fairness,' since we see them flip out in protest if they are given a reward that they view to be much less valuable than what their peers got (e.g. a cucumber instead of a grape). But they don't really have a robust sense of moral fairness, since they don't flip out in protest when it's one of their peers who gets the crappier reward, If you truly believed this policy of exclusive shiny models was so awful, you wouldn't have been going to try and get one for yourself, supporting the very practice you are skewering. What you take to be so bad about this policy at the moment is that you didn't get one. And you're mad that some other people who had no chance of getting one due to schedule/geography did get one by buying it from someone else who did get one but preferred the money.

Basically all wrong, because I can live without the toy. But it would be nice if FFG gave all of us monkeys an even shake. Again, I'm pretty sure FFG creeps out here, so if this thread makes FFG rethink this into a more egalitarian system, I'm willing to take a little heat for it.

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And for what it's worth, I'm not trying to be mean, like I genuinely wish you could have gotten one yesterday and it super sucks you did not. It's also really crappy that supplies were so limited at an event as big and popular as Adepticon. Such things have no value to me, and if I manage to grab one at Origins or Gencon (not at Adepticon) I'll sell it you at MSRP+S&H.

That's very kind, but unnecessary.

1 hour ago, OoALEJOoO said:

Buying the limited-edition vulture ship to sell it later for a profit is exactly the same as buying stocks (or any other good) and then selling it later for a profit.

This is, unfortunately, how today's twisted economic system works. The interesting thing is that some people think doing this on a plastic ship is evil, while doing it on a larger economic scale is not.

Obviously you missed my comments about big pharma up-thread.

Unfortunately, I think you are a victim of a double edged condition here. It wouldnt be exclusive or rare if there were enough for everyone to get one. You probably only barely missed your chance, so keep trying and you will feel that other edge when you succeed.

That said, the second they go the Attack Wing route and start doing con exclusive cards or ships that give exclusive and meaningful list options, they will have lost every penny of my business.

8 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

How, if any, is the alt paint mini any different than the limited game mats for sale at these System Open events?

It isn't, really. I'm not mad about that, either, but it's not a game component at least.

Again, won items at events differ from opportunity items. If they were selling event specific challenge coins like they used to give out in tournament prize packs, that wouldn't raise an issue as they're not components of the game.

7 hours ago, BlueAce said:

It's capitalism at it's best. No one is forcing anyone to buy the stuff. Heck theres no that guy at all, people want them and they're unable to get them so someone has to take one for the team to help supply those who aren't there. In all honesty you're just salty that you didnt get one so you're gonna take out your frustrations on people who have them.

You truly are a martyr. Ensuring someone attending the event doesn't get one so that you can resell it for a profit. You're a great person, really.

7 hours ago, BlueAce said:

Have some empathy for the europeans who have no way of getting it without shelling out a ton of $$$ either way. Way cheaper than a plane ticket to adepticon.

Speaking as a European, none of us expected to get one that weren't already planning on going, and those that did travel may have been prevented from getting one by your faux-altruism. You're not doing us any favours by putting one up for sale for "a ton of $$$". Don't try to justify scalping on our account.

2 hours ago, RebelProfundity said:

Unfortunately, I think you are a victim of a double edged condition here. It wouldnt be exclusive or rare if there were enough for everyone to get one. You probably only barely missed your chance, so keep trying and you will feel that other edge when you succeed.

Well, it really wasn't advertised as exclusive or rare:

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Come See Us at AdeptiCon

We’ll be on hand for all five days of AdeptiCon 2019, and there's plenty for you to see and do. Make your plans to visit the Fantasy Flight Games booth and be the first to demo and purchase all the latest products for our miniatures games—then, be sure that you come to our panel, and our booth to pick up your very own Limited Edition Vulture -class Droid Fighter Expansion Pack , exclusively available at AdeptiCon 2019!

It was advertised as Limited Edition.

Now, my mom has some "Limited Edition" Fenton Art Glass that she bought on QVC that was so mass produced that it has lost value. Sure, it was a limited run, for a year or whatever, to X million units.

So, given that attendance at Adepticon seems to come in at about 4K, FFG could have chosen to:

Make 400, like they did, so that only 1 person in 10 gets one, and they need to ration them day-by-day;

Make 2K, so that most people can get one, since it is unlikely that everyone is there for XWM;

Make 4K, so basically anyone gets one, and they can maybe allow people to have a second copy on the last day;

Make 5K, so there are well more than enough to go around, and a few people can even send multiple copies to Europe to save civilization as we know it over there.

Any one of these numbers makes the miniature Limited Edition (and probably still exclusive and rare}, but the outcomes are vastly different for the folks that went to Adepticon.

40 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Well, it really wasn't advertised as exclusive or rare:

It was advertised as Limited Edition.

Now, my mom has some "Limited Edition" Fenton Art Glass that she bought on QVC that was so mass produced that it has lost value. Sure, it was a limited run, for a year or whatever, to X million units.

So, given that attendance at Adepticon seems to come in at about 4K, FFG could have chosen to:

Make 400, like they did, so that only 1 person in 10 gets one, and they need to ration them day-by-day;

Make 2K, so that most people can get one, since it is unlikely that everyone is there for XWM;

Make 4K, so basically anyone gets one, and they can maybe allow people to have a second copy on the last day;

Make 5K, so there are well more than enough to go around, and a few people can even send multiple copies to Europe to save civilization as we know it over there.

Any one of these numbers makes the miniature Limited Edition (and probably still exclusive and rare}, but the outcomes are vastly different for the folks that went to Adepticon.

Someone just walked up a few hours ago and bought one... quit whining.

Agree with OP. Exclusive limited non promo ships are BS. It's almost like they want to go the way of WizKids Attack wing. Heck, anymore I'm super sad it's so hard to get promo cards and tokens. I work as an Aircraft Mechanic on weekend nights, when I pretty much have to, and I get ever so a rare a chance to acquire them despite a serious vested interest. And no, I WILL NOT pay scalper price online for a free item.

I've repeatedly posted this on the forums: I wish promo cards and tokens were sold retail at end of year in premium packs. Other companies do this successfully, like Stoneblade Entertainment. I'll elaborate if anyone wants to discuss the idea, but I've topped or or so many times I'll probably just copy paste it from somewhere.

2 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:

Agree with OP. Exclusive limited non promo ships are BS. It's almost like they want to go the way of WizKids Attack wing. Heck, anymore I'm super sad it's so hard to get promo cards and tokens. I work as an Aircraft Mechanic on weekend nights, when I pretty much have to, and I get ever so a rare a chance to acquire them despite a serious vested interest. And no, I WILL NOT pay scalper price online for a free item.

I've repeatedly posted this on the forums: I wish promo cards and tokens were sold retail at end of year in premium packs. Other companies do this successfully, like Stoneblade Entertainment. I'll elaborate if anyone wants to discuss the idea, but I've topped or or so many times I'll probably just copy paste it from somewhere.

I'm in a similar boat. I used to be powerplant avionics, now working in manufacturing automation. Between my work pattern and that of my better half, I might get one weekend in a month to myself, and even then the game fights for time with photocalls and family events. I've given up on the idea of having promo cards in 2e, because I won't be there to earn them in tournaments. If I'm super lucky, I might get enough games in through the new OP casual game support to pick up something (assuming my LGS partakes) but I'm not holding my breath.

12 hours ago, BlueAce said:

Have some empathy for the europeans who have no way of getting it without shelling out a ton of $$$ either way. Way cheaper than a plane ticket to adepticon.

Ah fair enough, I didn't realise you were vetting your buyers to make sure you were helping out the less fortunate.

DP!

9 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

• People who sell stuff on the secondary market are immoral

There's a difference between "selling on the secondary market" and scalping.

2 hours ago, powersink said:

Someone just walked up a few hours ago and bought one... quit whining.

Really...? 🤨

4 hours ago, powersink said:

Someone just walked up a few hours ago and bought one... quit whining.

1 hour ago, SpiderMana said:

Really...? 🤨

Right. Cuz like 100 people bought one the day I was there, too. It does not mean the distribution is equal.

The funniest thing in the world is seeing people upset at those making money. It's sad really. I could never imagine being upset at anybody for going out there and getting the money. Things are worth what people are willing to pay for them. Whether I sell it for 22 dollars or 100 dollars it shouldn't matter between two consenting adults. I get it, its highly concentrated levels of salt. Please continue to hold the moral high ground and look down up me from your ivory tower as I get my 4th vulture droid tomorrow.

You keep justifying scalping all you want. It won't change what you're doing. There's a difference between what you can do and what you should do. Something can be immoral without being illegal.

33 minutes ago, NakedDex said:

You keep justifying scalping all you want. It won't change what you're doing. There's a difference between what you can do and what you should do. Something can be immoral without being illegal.

I've read through this. Looks like someone just being mad because someone beat them to the punch. Just get to the next event that has an limited edition item earlier and maybe this person will be the one who gets to buy them up to horde and sell for huge profits.

Of course.... could always just get a job and work for money.

I mean, you can keep calling it other things and trying to rationalise it to make yourself feel better, but buying something of limited quantity with the sole reason to resell it immediately for a much higher price is literally the definition of scalping.

7 hours ago, NakedDex said:

I mean, you can keep calling it other things and trying to rationalise it to make yourself feel better, but buying something of limited quantity with the sole reason to resell it immediately for a much higher price is literally the definition of scalping.

Scalping (although I only know the word to be used with respect to tickets) is the fault of FFG in this case and blaming any individual reseller is unfair. Something that is worth X is being sold for less than X. People are buying it and seeing it for a profit. That is how every store that you have every stepped into works.

Look I think we can all understand why people will do things for easy money.

But try to consider how you’d feel if you actually wanted something rare, and showed up at the correct time and place, and it was gone because people who didn’t give a **** had already cleared it out for profit.

Its an understandable **** move, but it’s still a **** move.

1 hour ago, Rapture said:

That is how every store that you have every stepped into works.

Not true. That's what MSRP is for. So you can walk into a store and tell which vendor is trying to be a ****.

Also, scalpers are exactly why one-per-customer and vouchers exist. Otherwise, That Guy would have already walked off with the entire lot, as soon as he was the next guy at the till. Don't make the parasite the misunderstood victim here.

2 hours ago, SpiderMana said:

Look I think we can all understand why people will do things for easy money.

But try to consider how you’d feel if you actually wanted something rare, and showed up at the correct time and place, and it was gone because people who didn’t give a **** had already cleared it out for profit.

Its an understandable **** move, but it’s still a **** move.

I've been in that situation before as well. Yeah it sucks but at that point it's out of my control, I cant turn back time to get one. I only have two choices, I can either buy one on the secondary market, or move on and live without it. I would never expect someone to sell it to me at 0 profit. Doing so is just being completely unrealistic and unreasonable. Also if you didn't get one you didn't show up at the correct time. Yeah the vendor hall opens at 10 but if you aren't there at 9 then you're risking not getting one.

1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

Not true. That's what MSRP is for. So you can walk into a store and tell which vendor is trying to be a ****.

Also, scalpers are exactly why one-per-customer and vouchers exist. Otherwise, That Guy would have already walked off with the entire lot, as soon as he was the next guy at the till. Don't make the parasite the misunderstood victim here.

Yes trust me, despite the name calling which I find childish and funny I am in no way a victim here. I got my vulture droids and am good to go.

2 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Don't make the parasite the misunderstood victim here.

I may not have posted on these forums as much for both X-Wing and Legion, so my opinion will probably not matter much, but I sympathized with you up until this particular sentence. He hadn't belittled you at all, and honestly, you just seem angry, and it is very childish. He went out of his way with the experience he had learned from other conventions, as well as others to begin with on how to operate on the matter. This is niether illegal, or "immoral" as some of you on this thread had put. He understood how to handle this situation, and turned it into his favor with the oppurtunity that was given to him.

****, he even offered to give you one, to YOU personally, of course for profit, which honestly, would be a good advantage as on ebay it can go to any seller. He then DID become the victim of many attempting to call him out for what they naively believe.

Instead of giving in to your frustrations, learn from this experience and prepare for other oppurtunities that will be upcoming in the future from FFG. Don't be the victim of your circumstances, rise above it.

39 minutes ago, Shadowshand said:

I may not have posted on these forums as much for both X-Wing and Legion, so my opinion will probably not matter much, but I sympathized with you up until this particular sentence. He hadn't belittled you at all, and honestly, you just seem angry, and it is very childish. He went out of his way with the experience he had learned from other conventions, as well as others to begin with on how to operate on the matter. This is niether illegal, or "immoral" as some of you on this thread had put. He understood how to handle this situation, and turned it into his favor with the oppurtunity that was given to him.

In truth, I was trying to be generic about it, and talk about avoiding scalping in general, but I can see how you would link my statement directly to Blue Ace.

On the other hand, his own hubris about his success in this instance is what has landed him in the cross-hairs. He could have quietly done what he was doing, but he has, in multiple posts, flaunted how many of these ships he is going to scalp.

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****, he even offered to give you one, to YOU personally, of course for profit, which honestly, would be a good advantage as on ebay it can go to any seller. He then DID become the victim of many attempting to call him out for what they naively believe.

Seriously? That's like saying a bully who pushes me down and takes my lunch money is then a nice guy for offering to buy me a sandwich.

His tone has mostly come off as the victor with the spoils who deserves his upcharge. That's not the kind of "small business" I want to patronize.

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Instead of giving in to your frustrations, learn from this experience and prepare for other oppurtunities that will be upcoming in the future from FFG. Don't be the victim of your circumstances, rise above it.

Oh, I've learned a lot of things, alright. Not much of it is pleasant.