We found a process flow question. Keyword belongs to a passive ability? or not.

for example: I declared Robb Stark and Shaggydog are attackers in military challenge, and won this challenge. And then we must resolve the challenge's effect. the question is Robb have a response ability and Shaggydog have a Deadly Keywords. we know deadly must be resolved after the challenge's effect. But it should before the Robb's response or after? Because, if Keyword belong to a passive ability, it is step 4 in the frame window, and response is step 5 in the frame window.

If Keyword not belongs to a passive ability, I think the following step is correct.
1. Resolve challenge's effect.
2. Resolve Robb's response.
3. Resolve Deadly.

Rex Tan said:

Some keywords are passives, namely Deadly, Vigilant, and Vengeful (there might be more I'm overlooking but those are the ones that usually are relevant during challenge resolution). Looking over the rules, I don't see a good place to point to where this is stated clearly (in the Core Set rules, you can tell from the phrasing of the Vigilant and Vengeful keyword definitions that they are passives but the wording for Deadly does not follow the usual form). If you look at the flow charts on p. 22 and p. 24 of the FAQ, you will see that the challenge resolution framework action window follows this sequence:

1. Determine winner

2. Implement challenge result

3. Reward for unopposed

4. Renown is awarded

5. Passive abilities are resolved

6. Responses are triggered.

Deadly is handled in #5 while Robb's response can be triggered in #6.

i know if deadly is passive ability, it will be resolved before response. But we have some confuse. where could check deadly or other keywords are passive ability.

FAQ p. 18:

"A passive ability is defined as an ability on a
card already in play that triggers automatically,
without a choice from the player."

FAQ p. 12:

"Passive Abilities: Passive abilities must initi-
ate when applicable. These abilities are identi-
fied by their card text, which indicates when
the ability initiates. "

Core Set rules p. 20:

"During a challenge, if the attacking player con-
trols the most participating characters with the
“Deadly” keyword, the defending player must
choose and kill a defending participating charac-
ter after the challenge resolves ."

In my previous post, the challenge resolution framework action is steps 1-4. Passives are step 5. Passives are identified by the lack of a bold timing word plus semicolon (eg "Response:" or "Any Phase:") and the presence of a timing word (eg "after," "when," "whenever," or "at the beginning").

The only Keyword that is not passive is "Ambush."

All other Keywords happen whether you want them to or not. That is the main distinguishing characteristic of a passive effect - it happens at a particular time or when particular conditions are met whether you want it to or not. (Now, that doesn't mean that passive abilities always resolve successfully. The point is that they try resolve.)

In the current example, look at it this way: You could decide NOT to trigger Robb's Response, but you MUST resolve Shaggydog's Deadly (even if there are no defending characters to kill, you still have to look for them). Robb's ability is therefore a "triggered effect" because the player must choose whether to activate it or not. And Shaggy's Deadly is passive because the player does not choose whether or not it activates.

So all Keywords are passive. Stealth, Renown, Immunity, Stalwart, Intimidate, No Attachments, Limited, etc. You have to deal with all of them when they are there. You have no choice but to resolve them. That makes them passive. Ambush is the exception (because you never HAVE to use Ambush to put the card into play from your hand).

ktom said:

ktom, I agree that all keywords other than Ambush are "passive" in the general English sense of the word, but I don't think they are all passive in terms of AGoT terminology. I would call things like Limited, Immunity, No Attachments, and Intimidate Constant Abilities rather than Passive. I don't know that the distinction has any practical applicability to the game though. What's an example of something that can cancel or otherwise interact with a passive effect?

schrecklich said:

True. Many of the Keywords are "constant" rather than "passive." Immunity, Limited, No Attachments, and Setup are constant. Deadly, Deathbound, Renown, Stealth, Stalwart, Infamy, Intimidate (at the point of counting STR to determine the challenge winner), Vengeful and Vigilant are passive. And I would agree that the practical difference is pretty minimal because you cannot cancel keywords - which is about the only place a constant and a passive effect interact differently in the game.

The main difference between a constant effect and a passive effect is that a passive has a point of initiation (and resolution) while a constant effect is simply "always on."