On 4/26/2019 at 8:35 PM, millertime059 said:

Exactly. Mace is a better offensive piece, Ahsoka and Saeese a better support one. Luminara would be better in a 2-3 ship Ace meta perhaps, but that largely isn’t present, and force aces super don’t care about the hit to focus.

Lumi is stapled to my Republic lists. The hit to Focus is nice for stripping Focuses but the true strength is dropping crits to hits later in the game when shields are gone..

I have had great success with her. I keep track and she generally prevents 4-6 damage per game for me, plus drops 3 or 4 crits to hits. That’s significant.

30 minutes ago, Darth Wrath said:

Lumi is stapled to my Republic lists. The hit to Focus is nice for stripping Focuses but the true strength is dropping crits to hits later in the game when shields are gone..

I have had great success with her. I keep track and she generally prevents 4-6 damage per game for me, plus drops 3 or 4 crits to hits. That’s significant.

You’re really seeing 7-10 times per game where she’s using her ability AND it is saving damage (not just forcing a focus token to be spent)? Forgive me for doubting, but that just seems really high.

FWIW, I think she can be very good against the right list(s), but I think there are lists where her ability just doesn’t work and some of them are currently meta staples.

In addition, there’s a trade off for her ability that is that she’s not as hard hitting as another option. Mace’s extra force can help keep him alive and he’s more likely to prevent damage by just removing another ship from the board sooner.

What if run both Mace and Luminara in a list

That's what I've been doing. Luminara can flex between torrent support or offense as needed. Mace is just a hammer that keeps stuff honest. Torrents just take up space, block, soak damage and punch in red dice on stuff that is probably out of mods. In my experience she's usually changing crits to hits which is very valuable. I'm perfectly fine with a torrent eating two hits. But one hit and one crit gets really dicey. Hull breach, loose stabilizer, direct hits, panicked pilot, ect...all are just horrible on them. They are already dial limited and if you restrict it even more they are very hard to be effective.

5 hours ago, Estarriol said:

He has a girl’s name

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Saesee_Tiin

1 hour ago, AlexW said:

You’re really seeing 7-10 times per game where she’s using her ability AND it is saving damage (not just forcing a focus token to be spent)? Forgive me for doubting, but that just seems really high.

FWIW, I think she can be very good against the right list(s), but I think there are lists where her ability just doesn’t work and some of them are currently meta staples.

In addition, there’s a trade off for her ability that is that she’s not as hard hitting as another option. Mace’s extra force can help keep him alive and he’s more likely to prevent damage by just removing another ship from the board sooner.

Yes, I’m seeing it. I played a tournament yesterday running three ARCs with Lumi. 2 games against Rebel Beef, one against Dooku, Maul, Grievous.

In the Seperatists list she didn’t see a lot of use, flipped three crits to hits and managed to negate 2 damage from Grievous. One time he didn’t have a focus token and one he had to save it for defense. That’s 5 successful uses of her ability.

Against the Rebel Beef she was a lot more useful than that. I kept them in a place they needed to reposition or use their Focus for defense. Lumi was affecting attacks on almost every round of shooting.

It’s about how you use her and conserving her force for her ability except on rare times I just have to double reposition. I run 7B and R4, lmost always focus so my force can go to assisting and keep her out of the fray as much as possible. I use her as a blocker especially against flankers leaving them without a focus when they shoot. This was especially effective yesterday against Jake taking away his Focus shenanigans.

She takes some practice but if you get it right she’s a beast.

On 3/25/2019 at 2:52 PM, theBitterFig said:

I mean, it'll still have to skip it's action, and actions tend to be good.

//

Anyhow, here's a list I've got packed, I call it the Three Master Shuffle. Kinda similar to @rhetor 's list, but I wanted all Init 4. Synced Console instead of bid, since I want to see how it feels. There could easily be someone who's in a good position to Lock, and maybe they don't need it and can pass it along. Everyone's droid is picked to try to leverage their pilot ability, or at least allow more options for it. Mace has the Pattern Analyzer droid, to take an action after a red move. Luminara protects others, so I gave her the regen, if she's the first target. Saesee Tiin can adjust people's dials somewhat, so I gave him the option to use the hard turns on his own. Obvious downside to the list is only being mid-tier Initiative.

• Mace Windu (7B, R4-P19, Synced Console) 69
• Luminara Unduli (7B, R2 Astromech, Synced Console) 66
• Saesee Tiin (7B, R4 Astromech, Synced Console) 64

//

I also put in two games with Obi-Wan with R2 Astromech and Calibrated Laser Targeting, along with beefy generics. Feels like he doesn't have too hard a time getting bullseye on folks, and could serve as a pretty decent stand-alone ace.

Hey @theBitterFig did you ever try this list? Was Sync Console do any good?

A quick and dirty Aethersprite Meta Analysis, top 16 results from previous 7 40+ person Hyperspace Trails

• 16/112 lists have at least 1 Delta, so 14%
• 89% 7B
• 69% R2 (giggity giggity)
• 55%/47%/12% Single Double Triple
  • Single is mostly Ani or Obi
  • Double is Ani + [Obi/Soka/Mace]
  • Trip has a small sample size
    • 3 total, 1 being mine 1 being the list I copied, lol
    • but given that you want to run trip 7B, there's only a few viable options anyway
      • choose between R2 or higher-PS

Full Results and Lists

Went 8:1 in SOS Hannover this weekend with Anakin 7B R2, Mace 7B R4P17 and 2 gold turrents.

Had to give in to Han / Jake in a really close game.

Won the game before by LTL (last turn luck), so i really deserved to finally lose. 😁

In most games, R4P17 was really good. Just against Han/Jake it wasnt used at all.

2 hours ago, Rangor said:

Went 8:1 in SOS Hannover this weekend with Anakin 7B R2, Mace 7B R4P17 and 2 gold turrents.

Had to give in to Han / Jake in a really close game.

Won the game before by LTL (last turn luck), so i really deserved to finally lose. 😁

In most games, R4P17 was really good. Just against Han/Jake it wasnt used at all.

Hit me. Why 7B over Calibrated? The Delta-7 has a very easy time getting into the bullseye so I'm very curious as to why one would pick 7B instead- given its ludicrous cost.

1 minute ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Hit me. Why 7B over Calibrated? The Delta-7 has a very easy time getting into the bullseye so I'm very curious as to why one would pick 7B instead- given its ludicrous cost.

Guaranteed extra red die, more hp and still having the option to take a modification.

3 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Hit me. Why 7B over Calibrated? The Delta-7 has a very easy time getting into the bullseye so I'm very curious as to why one would pick 7B instead- given its ludicrous cost.

Shields, *ALWAYS* on 3 dice attack, you aren't burning force charges or bad moves to force bullseye and then you aren't burning force or needing a focus to enable that focus result to be flipped to a hit.

There are so many downsides to CLT that's it's largely unusable IMHO. It's only an option if you have a jedi in there for no other reason that support and you have the points for it on a low init ship. Otherwise, just delta and be done with it.

Most jedi should be using 1 force (if necessary) to get position via fine tuned controls, and then target locking. Saving their force for offense/defense as required. You don't want an extra eyeball out there. You want that TL almost always over a focus.

5 minutes ago, viedit said:

Shields, *ALWAYS* on 3 dice attack, you aren't burning force charges or bad moves to force bullseye and then you aren't burning force or needing a focus to enable that focus result to be flipped to a hit.

There are so many downsides to CLT that's it's largely unusable IMHO. It's only an option if you have a jedi in there for no other reason that support and you have the points for it on a low init ship. Otherwise, just delta and be done with it.

Pretty much what you said.

The Jedi Dancers are, for the points they cost, pretty fragile. So they want to get shots while doding arcs most of the time. With CLT, you would have spent 10 Point on Anakin that you either hardly ever use OR makes you fly to risky.

Also Target Lock + Force more consistent then Focus + Force, and CLT want to go Focus, while 7B can go TL. Especially when the TL sticks to the target, which happens quite a few times.

Oh, and on a minor scale, you get more crits with 7B then with CLT.

And after my Top 16 game today, i can tell you ashamed that one lucky crit can change the course of a whole game.

Since karma is real, i got hit by the one crit that would make me lose the game in Top 8, which is only fair as i should not have been in it by any normal means.

5 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Guaranteed extra red die, more hp and still having the option to take a modification.

But also guaranteed less defensive die. Same dial but you'll still get picked off at a disadvantage... But noted on the mod.

1 minute ago, Rangor said:

Pretty much what you said.

The Jedi Dancers are, for the points they cost, pretty fragile. So they want to get shots while doding arcs most of the time. With CLT, you would have spent 10 Point on Anakin that you either hardly ever use OR makes you fly to risky.

Also Target Lock + Force more consistent then Focus + Force, and CLT want to go Focus, while 7B can go TL. Especially when the TL sticks to the target, which happens quite a few times.

4 minutes ago, viedit said:

Shields, *ALWAYS* on 3 dice attack, you aren't burning force charges or bad moves to force bullseye and then you aren't burning force or needing a focus to enable that focus result to be flipped to a hit.

There are so many downsides to CLT that's it's largely unusable IMHO. It's only an option if you have a jedi in there for no other reason that support and you have the points for it on a low init ship. Otherwise, just delta and be done with it.

Most jedi should be using 1 force (if necessary) to get position via fine tuned controls, and then target locking. Saving their force for offense/defense as required. You don't want an extra eyeball out there. You want that TL almost always over a focus.

Okay, those are very fair points I'll be totally honest. Though in my experience, I've found a lot of success with CLT. Granted, I also like to run Jedi Knights instead of named Jedi- maybe I'm just stupid and weird, but I've had a good time running four calibrated knights.

1 minute ago, Captain Lackwit said:

But also guaranteed less defensive die. Same dial but you'll still get picked off at a disadvantage... But noted on the mod.

Okay, those are very fair points I'll be totally honest. Though in my experience, I've found a lot of success with CLT. Granted, I also like to run Jedi Knights instead of named Jedi- maybe I'm just stupid and weird, but I've had a good time running four calibrated knights.

If it works for you it works for you, 7B is just preferred by people that like more durable and efficient ships to a CLT Delta 7.

With 7b I just tend to vaporize anything that threatens me so the extra defense dice aren't as important. Give me 3-4 attack dice, a target lock and 2-3 force charges. Stuff dies.

For example, if you are engaging in an off angle joust, depending on how things are closing, the 7B allows you either: to dial a bank away and boost in or bank in and barrel roll out, while maintaining firepower.

CLT margins are so much tighter that it makes you choose either arc dodging or damage most of the time.

CLT should have just been the ship ability, tbh, along with FTC. It's not worth anywhere near as many points as it costs.

4 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

CLT should have just been the ship ability, tbh, along with FTC. It's not worth anywhere near as many points as it costs.

Or the opportunity cost of a mod.

10 hours ago, prauxim said:

Hey @theBitterFig did you ever try this list? Was Sync Console do any good?

Funny you should mention it, I was just thinking about bringing up Synced Console on the forums.

So I didn't fly it myself, but handed it off to a friend while I flew separatists, since he didn't have any of the new stuff. But SynCon seemed good that game. He was able to shuffle around locks decently often, with safer ships grabbing one and shooting first. A positive first impression. I'd also note that R2 seemed like by far the most useful of the droids in the list. I'm not sure the list has great legs, though, with mid-tier initiative and low-to-no bid, but SynCon seemed OK.

I went on a mini-vacation (I can telecommute from where I live, or from where my brother lives, which is much sunnier than where I live), and some other stuff intervened (early April snowstorm 😡 ), so I haven't had too much of a chance to play over the past month.

However, I was flying another Republic SynCon list today. I was going to fly with Afterburners, but swapped to SynCon at the last minute, just to give it more table time.

• Anakin Skywalker (Delta 7B, R2 Astromech, SynCon) 84
• Jag (SynCon) 51
• Sinker (SynCon) 56
• Total 191, bid 9

First game was against Fenn, Old T, Guri, all with Predator at 193 points, so Anakin had the hammer. The ARCs worked really well to control space against aces, and Ani could do his job. SynCon felt really good here. Sinker rerolls meant folks had a decent chance to keep a lock. Ani has high initiative, and Jag can sometimes get locks from his ability.

Second game was against Vennie, Tallie, Bastian. Hard slog. I messed up starting position, was too spread out, and Jag went down too quickly. Anakin fought his way back in, Vennie was ground down, and it actually came down to time, with 1 Hull Anakin having a R1 potential kill shot for the win and my opponent needed double paint on Bastian and to not pull a Direct Hit. I lost, but I'd kind of figured I'd lost the game on Round 2. Anakin can fight his way back into a game. Here, I don't know that I used SynCon more than once or twice. Wasn't too bad, but I don't know whether I would have gotten much use out of Afterburners.

One other thing to note: Purple Evade on Anakin got used like 2 or 3 times, and felt strong when I used it. It wasn't often, but sometimes I'd be at range 2 against Vennie's 2-dice turret, and the safety provided by the Evade felt really nice. Doesn't feel like an every-turn action, but a really nice tool to pull out of the pocket now and again.

5 hours ago, viedit said:

Shields, *ALWAYS* on 3 dice attack, you aren't burning force charges or bad moves to force bullseye and then you aren't burning force or needing a focus to enable that focus result to be flipped to a hit.

There are so many downsides to CLT that's it's largely unusable IMHO. It's only an option if you have a jedi in there for no other reason that support and you have the points for it on a low init ship. Otherwise, just delta and be done with it.

Most jedi should be using 1 force (if necessary) to get position via fine tuned controls, and then target locking. Saving their force for offense/defense as required. You don't want an extra eyeball out there. You want that TL almost always over a focus.

With how nice the Purple Evade felt to me in the oh-so-relevant small sample size of 1 game, that feels like another strike against CLT.

CLT is going to do best with Focus, and skipping Focus for an Evade is really going to hurt offense. I do want to feel out a few more games with CLT (I might pack Anakin with CLT and R2, Sinker and Jag with 7th Fleet Gunner for my next games), mostly in sense that it's often good to see for oneself, but it doesn't seem too promising.

However, it's worth noting that the CLT focus result can be rerolled with a lock. Probably still not worth it.

Flying some with SynCon, it really strikes me how much the loss of the Mod slot hurts CLT. Shield Upgrade and R2 would be scary on a CLT. Afterburners would be handy for saving force. I wouldn't yet call SynCon underrated, but I certainly feel like it's worth a few more games to feel it out.

48 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Or the opportunity cost of a mod.

Yep.

5 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Okay, those are very fair points I'll be totally honest. Though in my experience, I've found a lot of success with CLT. Granted, I also like to run Jedi Knights instead of named Jedi- maybe I'm just stupid and weird, but I've had a good time running four calibrated knights.

It's entirely possible CLT is a lot better on low-Init (thus cheap) Knights. 43 vs 54 points is a pretty major break-point in terms of list building.

And now since so many of the Republic lists I'm thinking about start with the combo of Jag and Sinker, I'm thinking about 2x Jedi Knights with CLT and R2, along with naked Jag, and Sinker with Clone Commander Cody...

12 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

early April snowstorm 😡

Ha, I just had a late April snow storm. Yeah, that’s a thing apparently.

Yeah on paper I convinced myself I like CLT more and flew quad CLT about 10 games (4x i3 and 4x i4 variants). Culminated with me getting 1-3 in a small tourney and a similar record overall. Switched to trip 7B and went 4-1 at a 40 person HT.

BE not interfering with positioning goals, being able to TL much more often, dealing more crits, taking less crits, and better with synergy with R2. Difference was night and day.

While not conclusive, 89% of top-table deltas running 7B is another pretty decent indicator.

I run two (Mace/Saesinn) with 7b. Anakin with CLT. Mainly, I didnt have points for a third 7b. Hands down, Mace delivers more damage than anakin.

9 hours ago, martini74 said:

I run two (Mace/Saesinn) with 7b. Anakin with CLT. Mainly, I didnt have points for a third 7b. Hands down, Mace delivers more damage than anakin.

You mean with those configs, or in general?

I flew Anakin/7B/R2/Spart Parts with 2 104th/7th Fleet/R2 yesterday.

It didn't go well, the ARCs just didn't pay for themselves.

I'm taking Ani/7B/R2 + Mace?/7B/R2 + 2 Gold Torrents next time.

Yeah not sure I'd be comfortable flying Ani and just two arcs. I'd probably rather have Ani + 4 torrents instead. It's about area of control, absorbing fire, and keeping meaningful shots on target each turn. Not sure two i2 arcs are able to provide that for him.