A good day to celebrate the fall of Sauron by reading a chapter or two. Barad-Dur is toppled!

I did. Three is Company, must be my favourite.

I’ve just started a long awaited re-read. I’m up to “In the House of Tom Bombadil”.

Hey dol, merry dol,

time to skip a chapter dol?

😂

Do not skip that one, though. Well, just as with the films, I prefer the Fellowship to the rest, without a doubt. And I really dig the rest, too, but the Fellowship is just magic. I almost never get beyond book iii actually because I then go back to the beginning again... though sometimes I like book v too...

33 minutes ago, lleimmoen said:

Do not skip that one, though. Well, just as with the films, I prefer the Fellowship to the rest, without a doubt. And I really dig the rest, too, but the Fellowship is just magic. I almost never get beyond book iii actually because I then go back to the beginning again... though sometimes I like book v too...

Well, I like the whole book, and The Silmarillion too. And the Hobbit, though not as well as the other two.

But the Fellowship is definitely my favorite, like you say, it's just magic, it has such wonderful atmosphere. You can feel all the green, if that makes sense. They used to say that people who read about Middle Earth would like to go there, and the world in the Fellowship sounds like such a pleasant place. And even though the films give no love to them, my favorite chapters are The Old Forest/In the House of Tom Bombadil/Fog on the Barrow-Downs.

I finally got around to reading the timeline from the appendices. It's interesting and has given me an idea for two decks for the game (which is a bonus).

It is true, the Fellowship, as a movie, is still one of my favourite movies, even though it skips almost all my favourite parts of the book it adapts: the 17 years between departures, the slow wandering, Gildor, Maggot, Crickhollow, Bombadil and Glorfindel (though I would say the book ii is adapted wonderfully, well, I even understand some of the adaptation choices of the first part, but they are my favourite).

PS. Funny that beside that my other favourite parts would be found in the Silmarillion. I most enjoy the homely green of the early Fellowship, and then the tragic heroism of the likes of Fingolfin or Turin.

My favourite book/movie is also The Fellowship, but that is probably, because i love the history of Arnor, Angmar and Moria, and the Fellowship takes place in the same part of the world. And this is also why I like reading the Appendices A I and III. I wish we had more elaborate stories about these times. But maybe the amazon show will fill some gaps, as I do not mind proper made fan-fiction like Star Wars Legends.

I hope we get a lot there, yes, but it needs to be good: writing, production design, music, and perhaps above the actors. At least the budget should not be an issue but otherwise it maybe a task equalling the LotR movies.

When I reread the series a few years back (and maybe it's time again) the thing that caught me most by surprise was a scene early in fellowship where the hobbits camped overnight in the forest and a fox stopped its scampering to take a second and observe them. Then the fox audibly says "What a strange place to find hobbits sleeping" or something to that effect and then continues about its business.

It's such a strange line, but as has been said it is the little things like that which really brought Fellowship to life in your mind.

Movie-wise I'd say Fellowship got enough right that I'm willing to forgive most of what they left out and added. I wanted Boromir to take out Lurtz before he finally fell but even then I think his redemption scene was near perfect and one of the best scenes in the entire trilogy, for my money at least. Missed Tom, the Barrow-Downs, Glorfindel and Anduriel but I guess if you had to cut somewhere most of it makes sense. Would have loved a 6 hour super extended version if it meant putting those scenes in!

I understand the notion that you can't make a movie just like the book; It's a different medium. That said, while I like the movies, I love the books, the books are much closer to my heart.

Probably what disappointed me most about the movies was Aragorn. I don't think they quite captured his character. To me, movie Aragorn and book Aragorn are like two different people. I didn't like the way he was reluctant about his heritage. Plus the fake death they gave him in The Two Towers was unnecessary.

2 hours ago, Vince79 said:

Probably what disappointed me most about the movies was Aragorn. I don't think they quite captured his character. To me, movie Aragorn and book Aragorn are like two different people. I didn't like the way he was reluctant about his heritage. Plus the fake death they gave him in The Two Towers was unnecessary.

Don't get me started. This is easily a 3 hour conversation that starts with Aragorn, branches to my favorite character (Faramir) and ends with me breathing into a paper bag...and that's the short version. In fact I better just go get the bag now that you've got me thinking on it.

7 hours ago, TheSpitfired said:

When I reread the series a few years back (and maybe it's time again) the thing that caught me most by surprise was a scene early in fellowship where the hobbits camped overnight in the forest and a fox stopped its scampering to take a second and observe them. Then the fox audibly says "What a strange place to find hobbits sleeping" or something to that effect and then continues about its business.

It's such a strange line, but as has been said it is the little things like that which really brought Fellowship to life in your mind.

Movie-wise I'd say Fellowship got enough right that I'm willing to forgive most of what they left out and added. I wanted Boromir to take out Lurtz before he finally fell but even then I think his redemption scene was near perfect and one of the best scenes in the entire trilogy, for my money at least. Missed Tom, the Barrow-Downs, Glorfindel and Anduriel but I guess if you had to cut somewhere most of it makes sense. Would have loved a 6 hour super extended version if it meant putting those scenes in!

You know, I feel almost the same. Boromir is my favourite in the book but some of his adaptation actually makes the character even more rich, and I really liked the extended scene in the Two Towers where you get to see the brothers together, that was special which you did not get in the books.

And ever since the films went out I was thinking you know one day they can make maybe six movies or a series, and then when the tv hit the golden era, I really started thinking, and then the Amazon announcement came. But I am super happy they do the Second Age. However, if they do that right, they can then do the Third Age, you know Angmar and the second rising of Sauron, and perhaps the whole War of the Ring, including the Battles in the North. It could be grand, the five seasons just a start if things go right but I can see fourteen or twenty with all of this material before we ever get to the Silmarillion.

On 3/27/2019 at 1:53 AM, TheSpitfired said:

Don't get me started. This is easily a 3 hour conversation that starts with Aragorn, branches to my favorite character (Faramir) and ends with me breathing into a paper bag...and that's the short version. In fact I better just go get the bag now that you've got me thinking on it.

I hear you. You can arguably say that Faramir made the right decision in the end regarding Frodo, but you're right, he doesn't come off as well either. And dragging Frodo all the way back to Osgiliath, and then the Nazgul clearly seeing him with the Ring there, it all gets messy. That whole bit was clearly done to fill out the movie, and leaves a bad taste. But I'll let you get back to your bag now.

To me Faramir’s plotline made sense, and it was some of the better writing addition, especially the way he sees the interaction between Frodo and Gollum. It made more sense that he was tempted, and it made his final decision all the more colourful.

The funny thing with Aragorn. I do like Viggo as an Actor, he is excellent in Eastern Promises or History of Violence. And he was was still great in the Fellowship, but there was something lacking in his performance in the latter movies. So as much as I liked him as Strider I did not totally approve of him as the Heir. Also, I agree about the writing here, in the book the character makes more sense, though he is not my favourite, either. Not on par with Turin or Boromir.

On 3/29/2019 at 3:11 AM, lleimmoen said:

To me Faramir’s plotline made sense, and it was some of the better writing addition, especially the way he sees the interaction between Frodo and Gollum. It made more sense that he was tempted, and it made his final decision all the more colourful.

The funny thing with Aragorn. I do like Viggo as an Actor, he is excellent in Eastern Promises or History of Violence. And he was was still great in the Fellowship, but there was something lacking in his performance in the latter movies. So as much as I liked him as Strider I did not totally approve of him as the Heir.

I agree that Viggo came off better as Strider than as the Heir. Probably my favorite scene of his was when he addressed the Dead in Dunharrow, he was owning his heritage there. And at the end of Return of the King, when told the hobbits "My friends, you bow to no one". But that aside, I don't know if I should blame him or the writing. I remember him saying he had never read the LOTR before the job came up, so I don't know if he really had a good feel for the character. Or maybe it was just the writing, I don't know.

As for Faramir, let's say he was tempted all the way back to Osgiliath. Was Sam, Merry, or Pippin ever tempted by the ring? Was Gandalf or Aragorn? They all seemed to come to an immediate decision "I don't want it". That seems to have a better result than letting it gnaw at you over time, like Boromir did. Or in this case, Faramir, all the way back to Osgiliath. He comes off much better in the books: "I would not take this thing, if it lay by the highway. Not were Minas Tirith falling in ruin and I alone could save her, so, using the weapon of the Dark Lord for her good and my glory."

Faramir's response to the ring shows how his nature is different than Boromir. In the movie his nature is worse, he falls quicker and takes longer to repent than Boromir. Faramir is tempted, as Galadriel is, but struggles no longer.

But as appalled as I was by Faramir, I think the hack job on Denethor was just as bad. Denethor was corrupted by the palantir and lost control after (as he thought) losing both his sons, but he was far-sighted and much stronger in the face of Sauron's influence than Saruman. The incompetent hack feasting while his men are slaughtered bears no resemblance to Denethor in the books.

4 hours ago, dalestephenson said:

Faramir's response to the ring shows how his nature is different than Boromir. In the movie his nature is worse, he falls quicker and takes longer to repent than Boromir. Faramir is tempted, as Galadriel is, but struggles no longer.

But as appalled as I was by Faramir, I think the hack job on Denethor was just as bad. Denethor was corrupted by the palantir and lost control after (as he thought) losing both his sons, but he was far-sighted and much stronger in the face of Sauron's influence than Saruman. The incompetent hack feasting while his men are slaughtered bears no resemblance to Denethor in the books.

Completely agree about Denethor. That was for me the worst writing in the whole trilogy. I really like him in the books, but in the movies he is just a bad guy.

I do not see that at all with Faramir. He has got his loyalty, he still breaks in in the end to help the Quest, even though he is tempted by the Ring, so he wins a double moral victory there, as I see it. But that shows people see things differently, and agree elsewhere.

6 hours ago, Vince79 said:

I agree that Viggo came off better as Strider than as the Heir. Probably my favorite scene of his was when he addressed the Dead in Dunharrow, he was owning his heritage there. And at the end of Return of the King, when told the hobbits "My friends, you bow to no one". But that aside, I don't know if I should blame him or the writing. I remember him saying he had never read the LOTR before the job came up, so I don't know if he really had a good feel for the character. Or maybe it was just the writing, I don't know.

As for Faramir, let's say he was tempted all the way back to Osgiliath. Was Sam, Merry, or Pippin ever tempted by the ring? Was Gandalf or Aragorn? They all seemed to come to an immediate decision "I don't want it". That seems to have a better result than letting it gnaw at you over time, like Boromir did. Or in this case, Faramir, all the way back to Osgiliath. He comes off much better in the books: "I would not take this thing, if it lay by the highway. Not were Minas Tirith falling in ruin and I alone could save her, so, using the weapon of the Dark Lord for her good and my glory."

As I say, here it is explained that he was meant to bring the Ring, according to the extended version of the Two Towers. Pippin or Gandalf had no such orders from their ruler.

2 hours ago, lleimmoen said:

As I say, here it is explained that he was meant to bring the Ring, according to the extended version of the Two Towers. Pippin or Gandalf had no such orders from their ruler.

Didn't "Book Faramir" have the same orders? Or if not, wasn't it his duty to bring it back to Gondor?

In any case, I'm not saying Faramir's tale didn't make any sense, I'm saying I like the book version better. And the book version quickly dismissed the idea of taking the ring, which is similar to other characters who showed that the ring had no hold over them.

I felt in the movie that Boromir gets a bad rap too. In the book, he doesn't fall until the reach the Falls. In the movie, he's trying to get the ring to Minas Tirith anyway he can. Aragorn never tries to take the ring either. Also, It is understood that Boromir, and at first Aragorn, are following the Fellowship so long as they can with the understanding that they are going to the White Tower. It's even considered a possibility that they will go to Mordor via Minas Tirith, so Boromir isn't just scheming the entire time.

8 hours ago, Vince79 said:

Didn't "Book Faramir" have the same orders? Or if not, wasn't it his duty to bring it back to Gondor?

In any case, I'm not saying Faramir's tale didn't make any sense, I'm saying I like the book version better. And the book version quickly dismissed the idea of taking the ring, which is similar to other characters who showed that the ring had no hold over them.

And I hear you. And I like the Faramir version in the book. He is not my favourite but I like him. He is not my favourite in the movies but his plot does not bother me. As for the orders, I think Denethor’s knowledge about ‘mighty weapon’ or whichever way he puts it is something extra in the movies, I believe. Basically, the movies throw a better light on Boromir (though his redemption happens in the books) and a much, much worse light on Denethor, which I find a shame. I really like those passages in the book v with him and Faramir and Gandalf. He is still cruel but not mad. He only turns mad after looking into the Palantír when he loses all hope; but until then he tries to do his job, not ruin Gondor.

16 hours ago, Vince79 said:

I agree that Viggo came off better as Strider than as the Heir. Probably my favorite scene of his was when he addressed the Dead in Dunharrow, he was owning his heritage there. And at the end of Return of the King, when told the hobbits "My friends, you bow to no one". But that aside, I don't know if I should blame him or the writing. I remember him saying he had never read the LOTR before the job came up, so I don't know if he really had a good feel for the character. Or maybe it was just the writing, I don't know.

Funny you give these examples, I too find them his best of the latter movies. Also after the Dead Men refuse as Aragorn looks at the Corsair ships, his failing hope is very convincing. In a similar way he is very good with both Boromir and Haldir passing away. And though Jackson usually does a very good job with actors, I do not think he got the best out of Viggo. Sean Bean had much less screen time to play with and he achieved much more for Boromir’s character. So did the likes of Ian Holm but that could have been expected of such an accomplished actor.