1 minute ago, Rapture said:

You would not consider being involuntarily removed from participating in an event that you paid to play in "harm?" I suggest that you look up the word. I am sure that you are desperate to try to prove a point (for some reason), but try to stay reasonable.

🤨 Hmm... So, following your thread of "reason", if you ignore a warning label on a container of rat poison and consume it, it is the manufacturer's fault that you did so? The rule is there, the onus, aka any "harm" caused, is on you if you want to follow it or not. Does the rule need to be change? Maybe.

2 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

🤨 Hmm... So, following your thread of "reason", if you ignore a warning label on a container of rat poison and consume it, it is the manufacturer's fault that you did so? The rule is there, the onus, aka any "harm" caused, is on you if you want to follow it or not. Does the rule need to be change? Maybe.

In fairness that is the starting point of many a lawsuit.

Just now, JJ48 said:

In fairness that is the starting point of many a lawsuit.

And where most of them fail. Laws and participation in society are not optional, playing X-Wing minis in any form is...

But dat engine glow

Just now, XPav said:

But dat engine glow

Nothing wrong with liking it. If you choose to pick up the re-release Rebel Falcon (Modified YT-1300) sweet. If you choose to run the Scum Falcon (Customized YT-1300) as the Rebel (Modified YT-1300) one in a casual game it is between you and your opponent if it is going to be an issue (most likely it won't). If you choose to do so in a tournament make sure you know ahead of time how the judges are going to handle mini substitution in the specific case of the YT-1300s (Customized, Modified and Scavenged) since the tournament rules that FFG has published are clear that it is not a legal substitution for Tournament play but some TOs have been ignoring it in the case of the YT-1300s (in the spirit of flying casual ). CYAJIC ( C over Y our A rse J ust I n C ase), it can bite you if you don't.

8 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

CYAJIC ( C over Y our A rse J ust I n C ase), it can bite you if you don't.

Exactly. When I'm playing, I really don't care which YT model my opponent uses. But this thread isn't about how I play or how you play; it's about...

Ok, so technically it's about whether the new model is all that much better than the old model, but it sort of turned into a discussion of whether you're allowed to use different YT-1300 models at tournaments. And technically, the official rules are against you, and you're taking a risk if you do it.

17 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

... the tournament rules that FFG has published are clear that it is not a legal substitution for Tournament play but some all TOs have been ignoring it in the case of the YT-1300s (in the spirit of flying casual ). CYAJIC ( C over Y our A rse J ust I n C ase), it can bite you if you don't.

Fixed it for you. To date, there has not been a single anecdotal case of a TO not allowing a Falcon-Swap. While it's true that ALL = SOME, some implies that there have been TOs that have been allowing it, and we simply have no evidence that that's the case.


I'll stir the pot more: I mean, if we want to get techincal , 1.0 Y-Wings and 2.0 Y-Wings have different sculpts, and are therefore different miniatures. They are every bit as different as the YT-1300 models: different dorsal turret, different struts around the engine, slight hull plating differences on the body... exactly the sorts of differences that exist between the Falcon sculpts. They are, also, different types of ships. In 1.0 they were just "Y-Wings" as per their dial cover and designation, but in 2.0 the new sculpts are BTL-SAF Y-Wings. I'd BETTER NOT SEE ANYONE USING CONVERTED 1.0 Y-WING MINIATURES as 2.0 BTL-SAF Y-Wings!!! Shall we talk about the substantial differences in the physical miniatures between the 1.0 "X-Wing" and the 2.0 "T-65 X-Wing" ...?

10 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

I'll stir the pot more: I mean, if we want to get techincal , 1.0 Y-Wings and 2.0 Y-Wings have different sculpts, and are therefore different miniatures. They are every bit as different as the YT-1300 models: different dorsal turret, different struts around the engine, slight hull plating differences on the body... exactly the sorts of differences that exist between the Falcon sculpts. They are, also, different types of ships. In 1.0 they were just "Y-Wings" as per their dial cover and designation, but in 2.0 the new sculpts are BTL-SAF Y-Wings. I'd BETTER NOT SEE ANYONE USING CONVERTED 1.0 Y-WING MINIATURES as 2.0 BTL-SAF Y-Wings!!! Shall we talk about the substantial differences in the physical miniatures between the 1.0 "X-Wing" and the 2.0 "T-65 X-Wing" ...?

2 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Fixed it for you. To date, there has not been a single anecdotal case of a TO not allowing a Falcon-Swap. While it's true that ALL = SOME, some implies that there have been TOs that have been allowing it, and we simply have no evidence that that's the case.


I'll stir the pot more: I mean, if we want to get techincal , 1.0 Y-Wings and 2.0 Y-Wings have different sculpts, and are therefore different miniatures. They are every bit as different as the YT-1300 models: different dorsal turret, different struts around the engine, slight hull plating differences on the body... exactly the sorts of differences that exist between the Falcon sculpts. They are, also, different types of ships. In 1.0 they were just "Y-Wings" as per their dial cover and designation, but in 2.0 the new sculpts are BTL-SAF Y-Wings. I'd BETTER NOT SEE ANYONE USING CONVERTED 1.0 Y-WING MINIATURES as 2.0 BTL-SAF Y-Wings!!!

You didn't "fix" anything. You replaced a reasonable conclusion based on what has been seen in this thread and a few others with a baseless generalization assuming that what we've seen presented here = what is going on everywhere.

Your getting "technical" goes directly against what is written down in the FFG tournament regulations and is penalizing people that actually follow the ******* rules. Here, I'll relink them and requote the pertinent section AGAIN. Please rub some ******* braincells together and actually read them :

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/d1/88/d1884752-34e1-4ad6-a992-824f41694a03/x-wing_20_tournament_regulations_printer_friendly.pdf

P age 3, midway down left column:

" Multiple Faction Ships

All ship cards and ship bases in a player’s squad must belong to the same faction. If a player’s ship has different versions in more than one faction, the player may use any version of the miniature and dial that match the full ship name when assembling a squad. All dials must be from Second Edition. Plastic dial backs from the premium maneuver dial kit may be used.

Multiple Ship Example: Scott is fielding a Scum & Villainy squad that has two BTL-A4 Y-wings. One of his BTL-A4 Y-wing miniatures and one of his BTL-A4 Y-wing dials is from the Second Edition BTL-A4 Y-wing expansion. The other BTL-A4 Y-wing miniature is from the First Edition Most Wanted expansion, and the other dial is from the Second Edition Scum and Villainy Conversion Kit. However, all of his ship cards and ship bases are from the Scum & Villainy faction."

21 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Your getting "technical" goes directly against what is written down in the FFG tournament regulations and is penalizing people that actually follow the ******* rules.

I can't help it if FFG doen't consistently follow their own rules in their own set of regulations. 🤔

If a 1.0 "Y-Wing" and a 2.0 "BTL-A4 Y-Wing" can be used interchangeably, despite having slightly different sculpts and technically different names, then it seems like the same ought apply to a "Customized YT-1300" and a "Salvaged YT-1300," despite having slightly different sculpts and technically different names. I mean, Y-Wings are Y-Wings and YT-1300s are YT-1300s, eh?

23 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

SO, you're planning on being even more of a **** than the ******* who would be raising a stink about the YT-1300's in the first place?

From Pg 3 of the printer friendly version of the Tourney regulations.

"Multiple Faction Ships
All ship cards and ship bases in a player’s squad must belong to the same
faction. If a player’s ship has different versions in more than one faction, the
player may use any version of the miniature and dial that match the full ship
name when assembling a squad. All dials must be from Second Edition. Plastic
dial backs from the premium maneuver dial kit may be used.

Multiple Ship Example: Scott is fielding a Scum & Villainy
squad that has two BTL-A4 Y-wings. One of his BTL-A4 Y-wing
miniatures and one of his BTL-A4 Y-wing dials is from the Second
Edition BTL-A4 Y-wing expansion. The other BTL-A4 Y-wing
miniature is from the First Edition Most Wanted expansion,
and the other dial is from the Second Edition Scum and Villainy
Conversion Kit. However, all of his ship cards and ship bases are
from the Scum & Villainy faction."

Read the bottom of the ******* cards:

So what I am seeing here is that the circle dish is the Resistance YT-1300 and I guess you could use a Square dish as your ORS if looking at the official card art.

Seriously why FFG decided to make 3 different YT-1300s yet keep Z-95s, Y-wings the same is beyond me. All I know is that it seems like FFG is under a lot of pressure for 2nd edition that it is being pushed out the door at a pace that FFG seems to be struggling to keep up. You need to look no further than the Guardians of the Republic pack. They misprinted the Torrent dials leaving out a hard 2 turn so they had to get the correct dials in there before they shipped. Good on them for catching it in the middle of production but it shows there is a lot rushing to get things done.

As for the model as long as it is a YT-1300 I don't care about the prefix. That restriction is just for the cards so you don't put Rey's title on the Scum one. Heck you could put Sabrine's TIE as Howlrunner as far as I care. As long as the base tiles, dials and cards are the correct ones, I don't see a problem substituting one model with a similar one just because the paint or detail is different. I draw the line at putting a B-wing down and calling it a TIE Interceptor. You might as well just use an empty base tile. But I am not going to tell someone that they can't use a Red TIE Defender for Rexlar Brath because that model is clearly for Countess Ryad .

8 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Heck you could put Sabrine's TIE as Howlrunner as far as I care.

I am a fairly tolerant man, but how dare you even suggest that someone take something as beautiful and pure and innocent as an Imperial TIE/ln Fighter, and replace it with that hideous abomination?!

58 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

I am a fairly tolerant man, but how dare you even suggest that someone take something as beautiful and pure and innocent as an Imperial TIE/ln Fighter, and replace it with that hideous abomination?!

I use it for Howlrunner all the time. "Here's the one you really want to shoot. Stop asking which one is Howlrunner"

1 hour ago, JJ48 said:

I am a fairly tolerant man, but how dare you even suggest that someone take something as beautiful and pure and innocent as an Imperial TIE/ln Fighter, and replace it with that hideous abomination?!

Bottom of the pilot cards. At least it ain't fuchsia... 😋

On 3/24/2019 at 12:14 PM, XPav said:

So I have Lando's Falcon, and a Rebel Conversion kit.

I understand it's.... in the grey area whether I can fly Lando's Falcon with the Rebel dials and bases. So I really should get another model. Plenty of dirty, round-dished models available.

However, it's being re-released in Wave 4. With... " with a striking engine glow". Is this new model going to be so much superior to the old one that I should spend the more than 2x for it?

DON'T BUY IT.

If you absolutely have to use your Rebel Falcon at a tourney, borrow it from someone....anyone .

Everyone keeps talking about Y-Wings and Z-95s. What about Arcs, Tie/LN Fighters, and Hwk-290s?

Seriously though, if you're coming to one of my tournaments I don't care which YT-1300 model you have as long as you have the right dial, base, and cards. Also, feel free to use TIE/FO models as extra TIE/LNs and interchange T-65s with T-70s. I. JUST. DON'T. CARE.

8 minutes ago, imrandy85 said:

Everyone keeps talking about Y-Wings and Z-95s. What about Arcs, Tie/LN Fighters, and Hwk-290s?

Seriously though, if you're coming to one of my tournaments I don't care which YT-1300 model you have as long as you have the right dial, base, and cards. Also, feel free to use TIE/FO models as extra TIE/LNs and interchange T-65s with T-70s. I. JUST. DON'T. CARE.

You’re good people.

Also re: sharing. I may have to reconsider my stance as at the Saturday wave tourney I went to I loaned someone my E-wing model and dial so they could run Gavin, Rogue, Wedge. And he won, so clearly the right thing to do was say no at the start of the day 😂

2 hours ago, JJ48 said:

I am a fairly tolerant man, but how dare you even suggest that someone take something as beautiful and pure and innocent as an Imperial TIE/ln Fighter, and replace it with that hideous abomination?!

Then you'll really hate when I flew Anything But Black Squadron at the battle of the Death Star trench:

But it made it really easy to tell which TIE/lns were mine and which were my teammates!

8 hours ago, Marinealver said:

So what I am seeing here is that the circle dish is the Resistance YT-1300 and I guess you could use a Square dish as your ORS if looking at the official card art.

Seriously why FFG decided to make 3 different YT-1300s yet keep Z-95s, Y-wings the same is beyond me.

They gave the YT-1300s different names so they could have different dials. That way, you have to match the full name on the dial to the full name on the card. Which is what the rule is trying to say - you have to match the dial to the pilot. Unfortunately, that also ends up with people deciding to interpret it to also mean that the full name of the miniature matters so that you supposedly can't use a YT-1300 as a YT-1300, because one is "modified" and the other is "scavenged" (or "customized").

I mean, if we're going full rules lawyer on this one, no miniature has a "full name" since none of the miniatures have names on them. So we end up back to the must be recognizable as the ship represented by the card rule.

I dont think it matters outside of official tournaments. I would never require an opponant to buy more than one unless they ran more than one in a lit. I would also never care what model of it they used (go with the one they like the look of) so long as I know/they had the correct dials/cards for me to see and go by. I honestly think it would be better to have new ships than 500 versions of an old one that are just cosmetic.

1 hour ago, Freeptop said:

They gave the YT-1300s different names so they could have different dials. That way, you have to match the full name on the dial to the full name on the card. Which is what the rule is trying to say - you have to match the dial to the pilot. Unfortunately, that also ends up with people deciding to interpret it to also mean that the full name of the miniature matters so that you supposedly can't use a YT-1300 as a YT-1300, because one is "modified" and the other is "scavenged" (or "customized").

I mean, if we're going full rules lawyer on this one, no miniature has a "full name" since none of the miniatures have names on them. So we end up back to the must be recognizable as the ship represented by the card rule.

The dials too but again it baffles me as why FFG made the YT-1300 different throughout the eras. However I think maybe we should discuss the real culprit behind model switches. A-wings. So if YT-1300s could have their models switched around then would it be okay to put a RZ1 A-wing model on a RZ-2 A-wing tile in a resistance list?

15 hours ago, Marinealver said:

The dials too but again it baffles me as why FFG made the YT-1300 different throughout the eras. However I think maybe we should discuss the real culprit behind model switches. A-wings. So if YT-1300s could have their models switched around then would it be okay to put a RZ1 A-wing model on a RZ-2 A-wing tile in a resistance list?

As far as I'm concerned? Sure. It would have been different if they hadn't split the Resistance into a separate faction, but since they did, it ought to be obvious what ship it really is by virtue of what faction you're playing.

It could be confusing if you were running all RZ-2s, but using all RZ-1 miniatures, though.

Bear in mind, however, that I'm not even a competitive player, much less a TO, so my opinion pretty much counts for zilch!

15 hours ago, Marinealver said:

So if YT-1300s could have their models switched around then would it be okay to put a RZ1 A-wing model on a RZ-2 A-wing tile in a resistance list?

I use the RZ2 A-Wing model in my Rebel lists, because the sculpt detail and scale are vastly superior. Besides, the RZ2 A-Wing sculpt the Resistance has is incredibly similar to some of the A-Wings we see the Rebels use, most notably in Rebels (note: the Rebels had at least variants of the "A-Wing" in the classic lore that were all basically just A-Wings). Of course, I bring my official RZ1 A-Wing models with me and ask my opponent if they would like me to switch, but no has had an issue with it yet. It probably helps that I've painted RZ2 A-Wings with the more traditional Rebel Scheme.

Back in the day, people used to paint their TIEs to have the First Order color scheme, even when FO was in the faction. It never bothered me, as the squad sheets and cards and bases and ID Tokens do all the differentiation anyways. Heck, realistically speaking, it's not harder than telling Ello Asty apart from Poe if the opponent is running both... and you need to be aware of who is who given how differently the two maneuver based on their pilot abilities (and potential upgrades).

On 3/24/2019 at 1:14 PM, XPav said:

So I have Lando's Falcon, and a Rebel Conversion kit.

I understand it's.... in the grey area whether I can fly Lando's Falcon with the Rebel dials and bases. So I really should get another model. Plenty of dirty, round-dished models available.

However, it's being re-released in Wave 4. With... " with a striking engine glow". Is this new model going to be so much superior to the old one that I should spend the more than 2x for it?

Just fly the Lando model. The cardboard and dial is all that matters. People paint, LED light, and modify their ships. The plastic on the leg doesn’t matter.

16 hours ago, Marinealver said:

The dials too but again it baffles me as why FFG made the YT-1300 different throughout the eras. However I think maybe we should discuss the real culprit behind model switches. A-wings. So if YT-1300s could have their models switched around then would it be okay to put a RZ1 A-wing model on a RZ-2 A-wing tile in a resistance list?

Yes