10 hours ago, svelok said:

It's sort of a boogeyman, but isn't it just strictly worse than UXXYY?

Shhhh, don't tell anyone! Veteran Turret Gunner is cancer! Y-Wings can't do well without it! Leia is fine! Nothing to see here!

Making it more difficult to field generic pilots with upgrades would be really oppressive on Vultures. They are 1/3 of a faction and are good generics. Costed to play. Why limit them point wise? Their stats seem squishy enough with how their costed.

In the case of Y's, maybe VTG needs an extra point but they aren't that scary. They need to be flown smart to work like anything else.

Okay forum, what is it?

Too many aces or too many generics?

Pick a **** side.

2 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Aw, for phuk's sake, this game is going to get stupid fast if every card has 6 costs.

Hard agree.

There are clearly benefits to variable pricing in some cases. Hull/Shield/Stealth Device are all pretty straightforward math based on the value of such an item based on agility. Expert Handling and Engine Upgrade recognize the power of non-small boosts/barrel rolls. Some of the initiative stuff is pretty key, like Supernatural Reflexes. However, too much of it makes the game into a bunch of Spreadsheets (and I only ever got halfway through 3 in Three).

//

Back to the OP's topic.

Generic spam isn't a problem in itself. Either ships are well-priced or they aren't. There's potential 200/N breakpoint issues, but mostly it's pretty simple. Either VTG is fairly priced or it isn't. I kinda think it isn't--just a little, not by a lot. A Y-Wing with Ion and VTG is 41 points for what's probably a 43 point ship. Best place to raise points back up is VTG, since plain Y-Wings or with just turrets are fine. Meanwhile, Veteran Turret Gunner is probably as potent on a Kavil or Norra Wexley as on a Grey Bomber, and doesn't need to be cheaper or more expensive on one or another.

And I say this as a player who doesn't really find generic spam all that much fun. Generic spam isn't an issue we need to fix.

10 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Hard agree.

There are clearly benefits to variable pricing in some cases.

And the other one were it is not beneficial is INIT-based variance.

Fix INIT pricing on the pilots, NOT the upgrades.

16 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

And the other one were it is not beneficial is INIT-based variance.

Fix INIT pricing on the pilots, NOT the upgrades.

But sometimes a pilot without the upgrade wouldn't be worth taking at the higher price, while a pilot with the upgrade would be too good at the lower price. Sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

I don't think they need to go overboard and make everything variable, but there are certainly cases where it seems justified.

Generics don't need to be fixed, it was just crazy to put VTG down in cost. An extra attack is about the best thing you can possibly get in x-wing, sure it'll be put back up again.

It's like every time someone plays against double tap Y-Wings for the first time they have to post about how OP they are.

As I've said elsewhere, double tap Y's is a great jousting list, but can be outflown by aces.

Thanks for all the responses, I'm actually in the boat that y-wings with VTG is just a list you don't joust lol. I just wanted to put out a different approach in hopes to create a different idea instead of just pumping the points cost up and the list no longer works (in example, the triple Upsilon with hyperspace tracking data).

I would like to see hyperspace data tracking to still be a solid alpha strike list building option, just not in it's earlier intensity with the triple Upsilon ships with the ability to attack round one. Same with VTG, just because its good on the y-wings, I would still like it to be an option on say the new republic arcs.

As far as the generic pilot spam, I guess that was my mistake with assuming that a lot of list or forum talks were going towards put as many ships as possible in.

2 minutes ago, PolsVoiceful said:

Same with VTG, just because its good on the y-wings, I would still like it to be an option on say the new republic arcs.

The New Republic is coming to the game?! Wraith Squadron confirmed!!

Well, I meant the new old republic arcs....

6 minutes ago, PolsVoiceful said:

Well, I meant the new old republic arcs....

I know, I know. I was just kidding around.

Love the username, by the way!

50 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

The New Republic is coming to the game?! Wraith Squadron confirmed!!

"He hates my guts because I killed his father and he knows how to make bombs, come on Wedge! You tell me how this ends." -Wes Janson, Wraith Squadron.

I love the old X-Wing novels.

56 minutes ago, PolsVoiceful said:

Thanks for all the responses, I'm actually in the boat that y-wings with VTG is just a list you don't joust lol. I just wanted to put out a different approach in hopes to create a different idea instead of just pumping the points cost up and the list no longer works (in example, the triple Upsilon with hyperspace tracking data).

I would like to see hyperspace data tracking to still be a solid alpha strike list building option, just not in it's earlier intensity with the triple Upsilon ships with the ability to attack round one. Same with VTG, just because its good on the y-wings, I would still like it to be an option on say the new republic arcs.

As far as the generic pilot spam, I guess that was my mistake with assuming that a lot of list or forum talks were going towards put as many ships as possible in.

The problem with Dormitz / HSTD alpha strike was that it was nigh-on impossible to out-fly because of the I6 deployment (had deployment been capped at I5 then the list would still be vulnerable to aces with a bid, but even ace-heavy lists rarely run more than one I6). The list essentially broke the core mechanic of the game, so I'm totally fine with FFG getting rid of it.

I get that it sucks to set down your joust list opposite double-tapping Y-Wings, but the bottom line is that skilled use of the game's core mechanic - flying - will get you past the list.

6 minutes ago, knute said:

I love the old X-Wing novels.

"Show due respect. You speak of the only flight of Dinner Squadron, the one X-wing squadron with an undefeated record and no losses." -Hohass "Runt" Ekwesh, Wraith Squadron

That was the inspiration for three of my squadrons! Supper Squadron for the Rebels, Brunch Squadron for the Republic, and Fourth Meal Squadron for the Resistance!

7 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

That was the inspiration for three of my squadrons! Supper Squadron for the Rebels, Brunch Squadron for the Republic, and Fourth Meal Squadron for the Resistance!

Are your pilot recruits all hobbits or something?

On 3/24/2019 at 12:25 PM, PolsVoiceful said:

So one of the big "meta" lists going around is the 5 y-wing with veteran turret gunner and ion turrets (or I guess 4 of them have vet turret, and ion not the point). What if they had scale up cost for these as well, but in reverse?  

Your post is missing a justification for such a drastic measure.

If you were to look at hyperspace trials data, you'd see that almost no lists are exclusively generic (2.5%). So most lists have a unique pilot.
And even if all ships are counted, most ships played, too, are generic at around 73.5%. For context, yes this is a record low value. I understand that most of us have never seen this, but more ships on the table is probably a good thin.

IS this actually a problem? I considered the bidding war in 1.0 to be a massive annoyance and bad for the game. There is still a bidding war in 2.0, but now it seems that you have the option to abandon the bidding war all together and just run 4-5 generics in ships of good quality and still be able to do well in a competitive setting.

Also, isn't every swarm just a spam of generics?