I'm coming back to Armada after a bit of a hiatus, I can't decide what list I want to settle on. I want to try something new, and I'm realizing my ARQ battery list doesn't work well on the attack. I keep coming up with components of a good list that I want to try, but not a cohesive whole. So, here I am to ask for opinions.

Part I: Twin Gladiators (175 / 189)

GSD-I/II // - Demolisher / Brunsen / Engine Techs / Assault Concussion Missiles / Ordnance Experts

GSD-I/II // - Insidious / Montferrat / Engine Techs / Assault Concussion Missiles / Ordnance Experts

Could be Is or IIs, depending on how much I wanted to give to AA screens. I like the rush offensive power and I want to give ACMs a go again with repeated damage heaped on a target. But Its been a while since I've run a non-demo Gladiator that faced opposition and I don't know how well these will die if a Cymoon, or similar, out-maneuvers me. Ozzel or Screed as commander.

Part II: The Wizard (107)

Interdictor Combat // Heavy Ion Emplacements / Disposable Capacitors / Grav-Shift Reroute

The tank. Could switch to a suppressor and have Targeting Scramblers if one of the other parts (See below) are keeping formation with the Interdictor. Purpose is to contest objectives or setup a safe run for Brunsen. D-Caps with HIEs allows me to reach out and strip shields on a target as they approach. Otherwise, it's there to blunt large ship attacks and sneak in some strikes. It's cheaper than Part IV and more resilient than Part III.

Part III: The Victory (126 max)

VSD-II // Dominator / Minister Tua / Redundant Shields / HIEs (or SW-7s) / Gunnery Teams

Every time I want to make a VSD-centric list, problems keep arising. I saw RedDogRed mentioning Tua with Redundant shields to fuel Dominator and I wondered if it was worth a try. I keep a turbolaser off because 1. points and 2. QBTs often fail me when I need them as the target is often matching my speed by the time my VSDs fire. Ultimately this may lack the staying power necessary to anchor the Gladiators, but it's a VSD combo I want to try.

Part IV: The Imperial (146)

ISD-K // Devestator / Hardened Bulkheads / ECMs / ACMs? / SW7s?

Here it is, the assault heavy that every list needs to succeed in the modern meta. Designed to be scary and gets stronger the more punishment it takes. If I strip out the officers and titles from Part I, Montferrat is going here up until I start ramming something to death.

Thoughts with these combinations;

Part I + II : I debated adding a RDR-II with Dcaps and HIEs to escort the Interdictor, but then I'm left with a 23ish point hole I don't know what to fill with other than a Gozanti. But will I get comfortable enough of a bid? Should I have a stronger anti-fighter element? Going to a RDR-I means it's too close range dependent, even though I'd be using it properly as a screen.

Part I + III: Will the VSD be the weakness of my list, such that someone could plow through the VSD and blow by the GSDs? Of II, III, and IV, this appears to be the weakest. Even the Interdictor could fling rocks in the way of any hostile flight path and spam engineering while the rest of the list works.

Part I + IV : The close-range rush assault list. Get in the enemy's face and destroy them. Won't work against the traditional Rieekan aceholes list, which apart from Demolisher just waits for everyone to enter the killzone before deleting a ship.

Obviously with whatever core I chose I'd be tweaking and trimming upgrades to make it work, or trying to fill in any points gaps with good fighter mixes plus seeing what carrier options I'd have (Thrawn with a handful of fighters to have fighter commands, at least).

None of those go together. Add flotillas, squads and objectives before making decisions.

1 hour ago, Norsehound said:

R  edundant  Shields  

Has this card ever been good? 😂

Also you need to pick a commander first. Let me know who you are picking. follow what @Ginkapo has said unless you do not plan on using fighters

1 hour ago, Ginkapo said:

None of those go together. Add flotillas, squads and objectives before making decisions.

I was going to add those things after I picked which core elements I wanted to put into the list. What I want to decide now is what I want the core of the list to be.

Taking only one part leaves so much room to fit any of the other parts into it.

58 minutes ago, Cleto0 said:

Has this card ever been good? 😂

Also you need to pick a commander first. Let me know who you are picking. follow what @Ginkapo has said unless you do not plan on using fighters

I don't know, that's why I wanted to try the combination. ECM is the fallback if I decide against it, since it's cheaper and the VSD does need that brace.

See above, I was going to pick my commander based on which ship combos I wanted to star with. I with II? Screed , so I can trigger the ACMs and D-Cap HIEs. II with III? I could try Konstantine and flip the interdictor to a suppressor variant to mount Targeting Scramblers. Ozzel could be a contender with parts I and IV, so that I could get some good speed control on a dime and free up the points. Motti gives me protection for whatever I choose in a list and Vader amps up the offensive power, likely on another I and IV combination.

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I don't feel like I can just build around Part I with flotillas, Raiders, and fighters- this list needs an anchor that can take a heavy ship to the face if necessary. Ideally it has to be some kind of threat that can't be ignored (either part IV as a heavy bruiser, or Part II for some objective movement).

I like the raw power out of an ISD, but I also don't want to run something too run of the mill. Problem is, a heavy ship in a list is pretty vogue, and you need to have an answer to one.

It's hard to build a list without a specific direction. If you want crzy black dice, then I would say vader or screed. If you were looking at 2 large ships, I would point you at Thrawn or motti. If you don't care which direction, I can give you a little sample, but its just harder.

If you like ISDs, but don't want something that is META, aka BTA or a Vader Cymoon or something, I would try out Seventh Fleet Title. This title isn't used much in competitive play and it can be a lot of fun paired up with a whole bunch of defensive additions. The only reason I do not recommend trying out Redundant Shields is because they give you a max of 6 points of damage back. you prob won't be able to use it turn one, so it is down to 5. Then on round 6, you are dead or not, so it is down to 4... 4 shields isn't worth 8 points (RBD is 3 hull for 5). If you want, EWS is a very good title that does much of the same thing, but can reduce a lot more damage. I would put it almost on par with ECMs.

Try this for giggles: Motti + 7th Fleet+ RBD+ Repair Crews+ brunson/ Needa. and watch those scum who bring BTA as their crazy damage goes down the drain and how you didn't even spend your tokens, but you have no hull damage. They will be red by the end of the match.

I did try to use VSD, Dominator, Tua and Redundant Shields once. Part of a fun, but not competitive list. Only used it the once, enjoyed the list and want to use it again (time is an issue for me) but the one time I used it, I did lose (to my son who had a much better grasp on this game than I did - We are more equal now). However that combination was something I got from someone else on here, so can't claim any credit (if that's the right word). I just thought it was a fun combination I hadn't figured out before.

The point of RS in that build was to recover the shields spent gaining extra dice from Dominator, not be a damage mitigator to save the ship. I had DCaps so I had blue dice at long range and the potential for extra blues at medium to close. No crit users though.

Personally I like the bumbling old VSD, and love just putting things on it to see what happens if I do. So many lists, not enough time to play them all!

5 hours ago, RedDogReb said:

R  edundant  Shields  

Literally everything else is fine except for redundant shields. I love vsds and also like to use dominator. It is a lot of fun I think, I just would use a smarter upgrade than redundant shields

@Cleto0 I agree there are better upgrades, but it was "interesting" LOL!

Ultimately I ran I + II and did okay, winning the first game (Ion Cannons as first) and losing the second (Opening Salvo as First) vs a sato MC75 + 2x MC80s and about 8 A-Wings with Tycho. I'd say it was satisfying to play with.

Thing is, I'm dubious about any tournament potential out of this setup because it doesn't have that high-power large ship that I'm thinking is essential for tournament play. I don't like it, but thinking critically about list composition all that needs to happen is one well-placed heavy diving in and crushing my ships. Ultimately that's how I lost the second game, Insideous dying as it curved around behind the MC-75 into the far side arc and the 75 double-arced my Interdictor to kill it.

Why I wanted to run 2x GSDs is because it seemed fun and it's an archetype I take isn't out there a lot. *shrug*

On 3/25/2019 at 7:40 AM, RedDogReb said:

Personally I like the bumbling old VSD, and love just putting things on it to see what happens if I do. So many lists, not enough time to play them all!

I really wish there were better list setups that used at least two of them... I don't see it happening in a universe where better protected heavies can walk up and eat them for breakfast unless you take Tua, never being able to use your officer slot 😕

I usually use the II + III combination and add an arquitens or a gozanti ... In the VSD, however, i prefer ECs over RS because the shields that i lose with the title, i prefer to repair them with a dial. Having brace always available exponentially increases the survival of the "vic", in my opinion!
And if you want an even more badass interdictor, use Targeting Scrambler! In the last match i save my heavy damaged "diktor" against a "Liberty" fire at medium range.

7 minutes ago, OberMatthew said:

In the last match i save my heavy damaged "diktor" against a "Liberty" fire at medium range

I hope not. It only works at close. 😉 Still good though.

😅 my playmate won't be happy with this misunderstanding of the TS... 🤣 🤣

@Norsehound I've tried three VSD2s with a Gozanti, and Ree/Rudor/Black Squadron. Each Vic has DCaps, QBTs Leading Shots and Gunnery Teams. Admiral is Jerjerrod. A lot of fun (if you like Vics!).

And then theres one with Tua, ECM on one and Brunson on another, but a smaller fighter screen.

Might try a couple of Vics (not sure which flavour) as carriers, and see what I can come up with.

If you are looking for a devastator build this is a favorite of mine. You could swap upgrades out as you see fit but I can say that I have never had more fun than throwing 13 dice (5 red and 8 blue) out of an ISD with Vader that with HTT will spit out a massive amount of damage to either hull or strip all important shields from a ship .

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Darth Vader ( 36 points)
- Devastator ( 10 points)
- Strategic Adviser ( 4 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- Heavy Turbolaser Turrets ( 6 points)
= 190 total ship cost

2 hours ago, RedDogReb said:

@Norsehound I've tried three VSD2s with a Gozanti, and Ree/Rudor/Black Squadron. Each Vic has DCaps, QBTs Leading Shots and Gunnery Teams. Admiral is Jerjerrod. A lot of fun (if you like Vics!).

And then theres one with Tua, ECM on one and Brunson on another, but a smaller fighter screen.

Might try a couple of Vics (not sure which flavour) as carriers, and see what I can come up with.

I can't start thinking about multi VSD builds without answering the inevitable question of: There's a Cymoon (or Raddus MC75) across the table- so I don't feel like I can control which VSD is going to be targeted. It's likely the one that can't withstand large battery hits, so I can't count on that.

I also lament feeling hemmed into specific commanders. I'd like to run VSDs with the freedom of Vader but, Jerjerrod (like Tua) is one of those *Needed* cards that lock down your flexibility. Ugh.

8 hours ago, OberMatthew said:

I usually use the II + III combination and add an arquitens or a gozanti ... In the VSD, however, i prefer ECs over RS because the shields that i lose with the title, i prefer to repair them with a dial. Having brace always available exponentially increases the survival of the "vic", in my opinion!
And if you want an even more badass interdictor, use Targeting Scrambler! In the last match i save my heavy damaged "diktor" against a "Liberty" fire at medium range. 

Yeah the option was there to switch to a suppressor refit for that targeting scrambler, but in this case I wanted to go with fewer upgrade cards on the table (though as I look at it, it's only a two point increase). Another reason to take the combat refit is to have more ships with two dice for better AA shots... though I feel like relying on ships for AA action is not ideal.

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I think my next challenge for these archetypes (say I + II) is making sure I have strategies to counter the following:

1. Raddus bombs
2. Rieekan aces as second player camping their objectives
3. A monster heavy that hangs on their side of the board.

Taking two small ships (even GSDs) is a bit of a risk.

17 hours ago, Norsehound said:

Yeah the option was there to switch to a suppressor refit for that targeting scrambler, but in this case I wanted to go with fewer upgrade cards on the table (though as I look at it, it's only a two point increase). Another reason to take the combat refit is to have more ships with two dice for better AA shots... though I feel like relying on ships for AA action is not ideal.

You can use a victory (-I- if you want to use ordnance pods) with Warlord, rhutless strategist and H9, or kallus as officer... (cit. Eric Taylor from cannotgetyourshipout. blogspot. com )

The combat refit interdictor have a good anti artillery and the title interdicotr and targeting scrambler can help you against strong bomber strike (not medium or long range indeed)!

That warlord combination is linked to an almost 100 point speed 2 medium that will go >crunch< when a heavy ship decides to kill it. Interdictors have engineering 5 at least, and GSDs have their flexible movement so they can dodge.

Though I do wonder what that combo can do with Flichette Torps... still to get that 2 damage you need a fighter component that can tank it. And you need some response to that speed-3 ISD-K that deploys last.

I prioritize Grav Shift Reroute over Targeting Scramblers for a couple of reasons:

1. It allows my Gladiators off the leash so they can flank and do what they need to. With TS I'd have to keep them close to the interdictor, limiting mobility.

2. With GSR I can contest some objectives like Contested Outpost by yanking the station back my way. I can also set up terrain that's ideal for brunsen.