I really like 4x same(ish) ship builds and pre-ordered 4 Aethersprites. A bit bummed about the costs but still gonna give it a try.

Preference for same Initiative. Plus with all the Initiate scaling, leaning toward all generics, perhaps making exceptions for crowd buff pilot abilities

General ideas:

• Doesn't seems to be a 50pt same-ship build that makes sense
  • With CLT, you'd have to use Heightened Perception + 4pt droid or Predictive Shot + 3pt droid, bleh
  • JK + CLT + SN is 51 unfortunately
  • 4x JK CLT + 4pt droid comes in at 48, leaving 8pts of fill/bid
• Synergies that might be good?
  • Sense / CLT / low-PS blocking (/ regen droids)
  • Sync Console (/R3) - basically a weak TL coordinate, may be good to support 7Bs
• Things to avoid
  • Things that change maneuvering capabilities so some but not all ships (e.g. R4-P17)
  • Any bid?
  • Battle Meditation probably doesn't make sense for the archetype
    • Maybe BM on a non-7B coordinating 2x 7Bs, but not sure I like that setup
  • Highly imbalanced ship target priority
• Not sure about
  • Which (if any) crowd buff Jedi abilities are good (enough to break same-PS)
  • How the various astro options rank
    • Need playtime to see if regen feels good
    • R4 prob unnecessary due to rare stress?

Here are some spitball attempts, but still pretty open

whatever = some mixture of 7B/CLT/Sense/Sync Console/Astros/etc

• Same PS
  • 4x JK/CLT/R5 + 2x Sense - almost-same list with regen + 2x sense
  • 2x JK 7B, 2x JK CLT + 6pts whatever - max beef JKs
  • 2x JK R3 Sync Console / 2x JK 7B Sync Console - TL shenanigans. Delta-7s lock, 7Bs focus. In the case of same target, 7s shoot first and pass TL unless double blanks
  • Ahsoka, 2x JK 7B, 1x JK + 6pts whatever, probably Sense or Sync Console
• Mixed PS (crowd buff)
  • Obi CLT, 3x JK CLT + whatever - focus share
  • Barriss / Luminara / 2x JK + whatever - force share
  • Credit @Maui. Saesee R4 CLT / Luminara R4 CLT / JK Sense R4 CLT / JK R4 CLT
    • Saesee can change up to 2 dials after Sense before activation. R2 makes all speed 1-2 basic maneuvers same difficulty for synergy with Saesee. Optionally drop Luminara for another Sense.

TLDR: How would you run 4x Aethersprite's (with a preference for most/all being JKs)

How about a flexible dial squad:

11 minutes ago, Maui. said:

How about a flexible dial squad

Not feeling too hot on Saesee

• I've been pretty underwhelmed by hera ( with Nien) and Saesee is a weaker version of that
• I'm trying to avoid abilities that unevenly affect maneuvering. Maybe this is a bad approach though?

Also not sure how useful R4 is on a ship that's rarely stressed

All good points. But to contrast with Hera:

1) she can affect other ships

2) you've got a Sense in the squad (or two if you drop the other named jedi) to help even against higher initiative pilots

3) she can use her ability twice in a round (force permitting)

12 minutes ago, Maui. said:

All good points. But to contrast with Hera:

1) she can affect other ships

2) you've got a Sense in the squad (or two if you drop the other named jedi) to help even against higher initiative pilots

3) she can use her ability twice in a round (force permitting)

Hmmm... All good counterpoints. I missed the Sense in there. Will add that to my list of squads to try.

Gave it the [ Saesee R4 CLT / Luminara R4 CLT / JK Sense R4 CLT / JK R4 CLT] list a try. Was pretty unimpressed by Saesee.

With 4x JK/CLT/R5 I literally didn't take a damage the whole game, so no insights about R5.

Think next time I'm gonna retry 4x JK (CLT/R5/2x Sense) as well as Mace/Luminara/JK/JK

I think I'd keep the JK relatively light. I think CLT is worthwhile on higher Init Jedi, but probably not on Init 3s.

3x JK with Supernatural Reflexes, Plo Koon with Calibrated Laser Targeting (can't afford Obi-Wan). 200

3x JK with just their robes, Anakin Skywalker with 7B and R4-P17. 200

Best I've come up with so far, no particular synergy, but a lot of force tokens!

Delta-7 Aethersprite - •Mace Windu - 57
•Mace Windu - Harsh Traditionalist (46)
•R4-P17 (5)
Calibrated Laser Targeting (6)

Delta-7 Aethersprite - •Luminara Unduli - 50
•Luminara Unduli - Wise Protector (44)
Calibrated Laser Targeting (6)

Delta-7 Aethersprite - •Saesee Tiin - 50
•Saesee Tiin - Prophetic Pilot (44)
Calibrated Laser Targeting (6)

Delta-7 Aethersprite - Jedi Knight - 43
Jedi Knight - (39)
Calibrated Laser Targeting (4)

Total: 200/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I think I'd keep the JK relatively light. I think CLT is worthwhile on higher Init Jedi, but probably not on Init 3s.

3x JK with Supernatural Reflexes, Plo Koon with Calibrated Laser Targeting (can't afford Obi-Wan). 200

3x JK with just their robes, Anakin Skywalker with 7B and R4-P17. 200

I've had good results with CLT on the JKs. I think people overestimate the synergy between high Ini and bullseye, I feel like leaning on repo for BE is usually a mistake

1 minute ago, prauxim said:

I've had good results with CLT on the JKs. I think people overestimate the synergy between high Ini and bullseye, if you're leaning on repo for BE youre probably making a mistake

Hey, on-table practice beats theory. And I'm sure it'll also come down to the player and how they fly. I haven't had much any success with HLC on generics, for example. But Soontir, S-Foils-Closed T-70 Nien Nunb, and Corran (I was flying an Advanced Sensors/Predator Corran a week ago and it worked out decently) don't have too many issues for me.

//

I missed the R5 thought before, but that kinda makes sense. I love the thought of regen on higher Jedi, and I've got a CLT/R2 Obi-Wan packed for the FLGS tomorrow. So I'm into the concept. I can see R5 working well on a JK.

All the Jedi Ladies

Barriss Offee — Delta-7 Aethersprite43Calibrated Laser Targeting6Ship Total: 49Half Points: 25 Threshold: 2

Luminara Unduli — Delta-7 Aethersprite44Calibrated Laser Targeting6Ship Total: 50Half Points: 25 Threshold: 2

Saesee Tiin — Delta-7 Aethersprite44Calibrated Laser Targeting6Ship Total: 50Half Points: 25 Threshold: 2

Ahsoka Tano — Delta-7 Aethersprite47Calibrated Laser Targeting4Ship Total: 51Half Points: 26 Threshold: 2

22 minutes ago, aswitcher said:

All the Jedi Ladies

Barriss Offee — Delta-7 Aethersprite43Calibrated Laser Targeting6Ship Total: 49Half Points: 25 Threshold: 2

Luminara Unduli — Delta-7 Aethersprite44Calibrated Laser Targeting6Ship Total: 50Half Points: 25 Threshold: 2

Saesee Tiin — Delta-7 Aethersprite44Calibrated Laser Targeting6Ship Total: 50Half Points: 25 Threshold: 2

Ahsoka Tano — Delta-7 Aethersprite47Calibrated Laser Targeting4Ship Total: 51Half Points: 26 Threshold: 2

More like Saesee Tiin's triple date.

18 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

More like Saesee Tiin's triple date.

He looks happy about it too

37 minutes ago, Kijaucey said:

He looks happy about it too

I mean, you try excusing yourself to the restroom each time you need to swap to one of the others girls and not take too much time with one to make the others too suspicious.

On 3/23/2019 at 9:27 PM, theBitterFig said:

Hey, on-table practice beats theory. And I'm sure it'll also come down to the player and how they fly. I haven't had much any success with HLC on generics, for example. But Soontir, S-Foils-Closed T-70 Nien Nunb, and Corran (I was flying an Advanced Sensors/Predator Corran a week ago and it worked out decently) don't have too many issues for me.

First let me define some terms:

• RIB / "repo-into-bulleye" - you do a repo specifically to gain bullseye, e.g. a repo that you would not have done if not trying to get bulleye
• NB / natural bullseye - you gain bullseye via maneuver selection, or via a repo you would have done anyway (e.g. to get out arc)

High Ini is only better at RIB. There is no NB/High-Ini advantage except in the case where (a) would have repo'd anyway and (b) there are multiple equally good repo positions, which is pretty rare. There is also a high-Ini NB disadvantage due to chance of getting blocked.

In general RIB is a mistake. E.g. on HLC, you often sacrifice an action that could have been used for a mod that would have been just as beneficial as the extra dice, and you lose crits (and you paid 4pts for the ability to do so)

However, on ships like Soontir/Corran/Nien, repo into bulls-eye makes sense, because (a) the rewards are double/triple stacked and (b) you don't sacrifice a token for the repo, in fact you usually gain one (Corran somewhat an exception, but then again Corran isn't in a good place atm)

On the other hand, look at HLC Poe. Everybody was hyping it it, and its only in a small minority of top table Poe builds, much less common than PTorp or an empty hard-point.

On the Jedi however, the "high-PS RIB" strategy is even further damped (with respect to random non-BE ability ships like Poe/generics/etc) by:

• CLT is Ini scaled, you're paying HLC price at I3, and double HLC price at I5
• You pay a token to repo
  • On named Jedi, this is a higher price than on generics (the token is worth more due to abilities)
  • Also a CLT shot requires more tokens than an average attack

So I think Hi-Ini RIB strategy is a no-go for Jedi. I think CLT will see play on low PS and 7B or nothing on high PS.

With JKs, the CLT values comes from Natural bullseye. In theory you should get BE ~17% of the time without even trying unless they repo to avoid it (which is still a good thing if there is any opportunity cost to their repo).

And then you add in the BE you get due to blocks (and/or sense).

By a simplistic value calculations (dmg/shot * shots till dead), a CLT JK become better than a T-70 at 15% BE rate.

I saw ~25% BE my first two games. But maybe I got lucky, time will tell I guess.

7 minutes ago, prauxim said:

First let me define some terms:

• RIB / "repo-into-bulleye" - you do a repo specifically to gain bullseye, e.g. a repo that you would not have done if not trying to get bulleye
• NB / natural bullseye - you gain bullseye via maneuver selection, or via a repo you would have done anyway (e.g. to get out arc)

High Ini is only better at RIB. By definition, there is no NB/HighIni advantage except in the case where (a) would have repo'd anyway and (b) there are multiple equally good repo positions, which is pretty rare.

In general RIB is a mistake. E.g. on HLC, you often sacrifice an action that could have been used for a mod that would have been just as beneficial as the extra dice, and you lose crits (and you paid 4pts for the ability to do so)

However, on ships like Soontir/Corran/Nien, repo into bullseye makes sense, because (a) the rewards are double/triple stacked and (b) you don't sacrifice a token for the repo, infact you usually gain one (Corran somewhat an exception, but then again Corran isn't in a good place atm)

On the other hand, look at HLC Poe. Everybody was hyping it it, and its only in a small minority of top table Poe builds, much less common than PTorp or an empty hardpoint.

On the Jedi however, the "high-PS RIB" strategy is even further damped (with respect to random non-BE ability ships like Poe/generics/etc) by:

• CLT is Ini scaled, you're paying HLC price at I3, and double HLC price at I5
• You pay a token to repo
  • On named Jedi, this is a higher price than on generics (the token is worth more due to abilities)
  • Also a CLT shot requires more tokens than an average attack

So I think Hi-Ini RIB strategy is a no-go for Jedi. I think CLT will see play on low PS and 7B or nothing on high PS.

With JKs, the CLT values comes from Natural bullseye. In theory you should get BE ~17% of the time without even trying unless they repo to avoid it (which is still a good thing if there is any opportunity cost to their repo).

And then you add in the BE you get due to blocks (and/or sense).

By a simplistic value calculations (dmg/shot * shots till dead), a CLT JK become better than a T-70 at 15% BE rate.

I saw ~25% BE my first two games. But maybe I got lucky, time will tell I guess.

I dunno about the "bad on high Init Jedi" line you're taking. I was flying a CLT Obi-Wan the other day, I think I got CLT 60% in one game, probably around 50% in the other game (I can't remember the turn sequences well enough). Meanwhile, I think I only felt like I needed to use Obi-Wan's ability like 2 or 3 times over 2 games.

Meanwhile, using a Force Fine Tuned Controls to get BE for CLT and taking a Focus action leads to higher expected damage than a 2-red ship taking a Lock and using force to convert eye results. And if you use a force to get a hit when attacking, you're still spending the same amount of force as using the ship ability (and not necessarily doing more damage).

I'm willing to believe that low-init CLT is better than I might have first though, but CLT Obi-Wan has felt good to me.

23 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I dunno about the "bad on high Init Jedi" line you're taking. I was flying a CLT Obi-Wan the other day, I think I got CLT 60% in one game, probably around 50% in the other game (I can't remember the turn sequences well enough). Meanwhile, I think I only felt like I needed to use Obi-Wan's ability like 2 or 3 times over 2 games.

Meanwhile, using a Force Fine Tuned Controls to get BE for CLT and taking a Focus action leads to higher expected damage than a 2-red ship taking a Lock and using force to convert eye results. And if you use a force to get a hit when attacking, you're still spending the same amount of force as using the ship ability (and not necessarily doing more damage).

I'm willing to believe that low-init CLT is better than I might have first though, but CLT Obi-Wan has felt good to me.

Yeah not saying CLT on High-Ini is bad per se, I'm just saying the High-Ini/BE synergy/efficiency is a weaker than other cases, and that the playing field is close to even or maybe even tilted in the favor of JK.

Consider that a JK would only need half the BE rate to pay for the upgrade. I personally like spread offence a lot better than concentrated offence, so I'm probably somewhat biased.

In the case of double modding, consider that with 7B, the Force/TL expected damage is a bit higher than BE/CLT/Focus (and way more when you don't have BE) and since your defense is more in the form of shields instead of green dice, the opportunity cost of not having double eye-ball mods is lower. Unlike JKs who pay 375% more for 7B over CLT, Obi only pays 80% more.

However 60% BE is really high. If you are really paying little/no opportunity cost to achieve that, then its hard to argue with that performance.

33 minutes ago, prauxim said:

In the case of double modding, consider that with 7B, the Force/TL expected damage is a bit higher than BE/CLT/Focus (and way more when you don't have BE) and since your defense is more in the form of shields instead of green dice, the opportunity cost of not having double eye-ball mods is lower. Unlike JKs who pay 375% more for 7B over CLT, Obi only pays 80% more.

It's not much of an increase with 7B.

• 2 red, lock, 1 force: 1.809 hits
• 2 red, bulleye, focus (1 force spent on Fine Tuned Controls): 2.5 hits
  • ~0.7 more than no configuration
• 3 red, lock, 1 force: 2.645 hits
  • ~0.15 more than CLT

But clearly there's going to be a benefit to not having to get a bullseye.

43 minutes ago, prauxim said:

However 60% BE is really high. If you are really paying little/no opportunity cost to achieve that, then its hard to argue with that performance.

I mean, I was using Fine Tuned Controls and had the last move.

I mean yeah agreed on 7B attack but
(slight advantage * 0.6 + significant advantage * 0.4) + reduced dependency on a token for defense + reduced chance of needing to spend token on attack = a significant power increase, worth the 9pts I think

22 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

[ However 60% BE is really high. If you are really paying little/no opportunity cost to achieve that, then its hard to argue with that performance. ]

I mean, I was using Fine Tuned Controls and had the last move.

Yeah but that doesn't mean there wasn't opportunity cost. 1.5 opportunity's/per game to use his ability per game seems low, did you fly him with multiple ships that usually focus?