Okay so they have Vindicare Assasins and even Stated Eversor Assasins, does anyone have any thoughts on Callidus and Culexus in terms of rules and abilities?

all i can think of is that you need to be a null for one of those... the other a drug would need to be created and then i guess having a high fellowship to pull off being someone else

you c an make the drug yourself as a GM...having them test Toughness depending on how hard it would be to impersonate the person they are attempting to change into. Also a test to see if the after injection they dont just fall apart into a goo.... it wouldnt be hard to come up with some interesting rules and just use the Vin... as the template class

The Culexus is a null on steroids, massive implants and augmentation to increase both size and potency of the warp void a null causes. A Culexus does not just hinder what a psycher can do, they can shut them down entirely. Now even they have limits a massively powerful psycher could find a way but a class 4 psycher or lower; basically they are powerless in the assassins void zone. I know in lore it is said that if a psycher is to touch a Culexus assassin the pain will render them unconscious and if the psycher is weakened or unprepared the touch can cause death. A null makes psycher very uneasy and almost causes pain being in very close proximity. A null near a normal (or blunt) person just gives causes an air of unease as if something not being right, like a chill down your spine but nothing else really. A Culexus near a normal does not cause pain but the wrongness of a Culexus is enough to cause fear even in blunts.

Callidus as stated before can shape change with the help of the drugs they take. I assume but have no proof that repeated exposure to the drug gives them unatural flexibility. The main thing is that they are fast and chosen for beauty (this is very old lore, after all if you can go from female to male how hard is it to make someone look good), they are also chosen for ruthlessness and brutality some missions involve them being in deep cover for years, it is hammered into their heads to training that all emotion involving kindness is weakness. A Callidus knows no compassion or guilt (granted neither do the others but with her it is even more so). One thing there is there is limits to what a Callidus can do; an example from a book long ago had a Callidus altered to the extreme; so much so she would never be able to shape change into anthing but one form. An inquisitor was investigating a cult that worshiped Tyranids. It seemed they thought that those consumed live in paradise forever within the hive mind. This Callidus was able to take the shape of a genestealer, this was how the inquisitor convinced the cult to follow him as they had yet to make contact with a genestealer cult. There are limits obviously if any other genestealers saw here they would know immediatly she was not one of them as genestealers have a secondary brood hive mind that allows them to exist beyonds the reach of synapsecreatures.

As an old i-told-you-so, please use the search function of the forum. There is an old thread about Culexus Assassins and their gear in the main forum. look it up, and if you want me to make a profile too for the Culexus.

Culexus

Combat monster on the scale of Eversor. They are as highly trained in close- and ranged combat as any temple assassin, but in addition these guys are the most powerfull untouchables ever. Their presence makes people crap their pants and psyker to get a heart attack and die. On the top of that they can actually *drain life* from living creatures by just touching them... and yes, that means by touching them, no technogizmo involved.

As for wargear:

Animus Speculum : Shoots bolts of negative energy which kills stuff. If there are psykers nearby it gains more power and can shoot bigger bolts and faster.

Etherium: A sort of camo-cloak but better. This thing actually makes people forget that the Culxus is even there.

I think the polymorphine (or whatever is written) is already in the rules section of some supplement as a drug. An ol'Callidus can be "patched" into the game as a Death Cult Assassin able to use both a sword and a plasma pistol at the same time, using the same skynsuit as the Vindicare and some similar functions to the Vindicare mask (probably a tracking system instead of the long-range anti camaleonine subsystem). The only problem would be the C'than sword... Which, of course, is made of necron's living metal (without the need of an energy source), monomolecular and I'd say Sanctified (but not by the emperor, but the C'than, to use against Warp-touched beings).

Argus Van Het said:

Why? The described canon effect ( from TT ) is very simple: the sword ignores both armor and Invulnerable saves. In DH terms phrase it something along the lines of: "C`tan phase sword ignores Armor Points and protection form Field effects ( including Psychic Powers )". Give the sword suitable additional traits based on personal preference. "Tearing" and "Balanced" would be my suggestions.

Aajav-Khan said:

Personally, I'd not give it balanced. I'd actually give it Unwieldy (can't be used to parry) and Flexible (can't be parried) instead - this is a weapon which phases in and out of reality such that it ignores all forms of personal defence...so how can you guarantee that it'll be corporeal when you parry with it or when someone goes to parry it?

I'd start withe the Moritat Reaper background and build from there. IIRC Moritats treat all edged weapons as tearing, then build on the Fellowship and trick out with polymorphine and other goodies.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Good idea .

Four words:

Best Quality Warp Weapon

"Flexable" is not a bad idea either. Because it is a C'tan weapon I would certainly NOT consider it to be Holy!

Since you are probably using the Moritat "kill stuff with sharp stuff" rules for the Calidus that should more or less cover it. A top quality relic weapon that ignores armour and most shields, cannot be parried and uses the tearing rule in the hands of an Officio Assasinorum operative trained especially for deceptive warfare and close-in work. Dodge or DIE!

For the Neural Shredder I would start with a "compact" flamer with the pistol-grip modification to use one-handed, but instead of testing Agility to avoid the damage the target tests Willpower! Ignore all armour and toughness, but reduce incoming damage by WP bonus instead. Replace "on fire" with "stun". Surviving this weapon is probably worth a Fear 1 or 2 test...

I was pointing to some narrative stuff in one of the Codex Necrons about the C'Than sword... when a Callidus tries to stab the Deceiver (thinking he is a corrupt governor), and he lols. And eats her...

Argus Van Het said:

this is true, and is very funny seeing as he says that the polymorphine makes them taste better than normal human life force

I'd be more interested in Vanus and Venemum temples! Actually so FFG can do something new!

The threads on 'em over on Warseer link back to '07 when Gav Thorpe suggest Vanus is a more 'blow things up' and 'complete destruction' assassin than the others. Not just 'kill you', but 'kill you and everything nearby', i.e. planting nuclear devices, being the sanctioned bearer of void grenades etc. E.g. someone when you want to hit someone and everything around them. Or a whole big group of someones.

Venemum, as I recall, are the poisoners. I can't help think that they might be bearers of not only the super-poisons and ways to apply them, but also bearers of things such as the Life Eater virus. They might have teensy wee capsules of it. fight from within completely sealed bodygloves, that sort of thing.

Plenty of opportunity, of course, but they strike me as a bit more 'viable' than super-sniper/kept-in-a-box. Polymorphine user and inimical to all life seem much more...gameworthy. (At least insofar as Primaris Psykers are permitted, why not develop on the old Untouchable front?)

But that might be just me. It's certainly not fully fledged and established stuff, but I imagine it'd be much more interesting than 'he's a super-good sniper'. :/

My opinion is that making a Vindicare Temple Assassin ascended class was one of the FFGs stupidiest things. Considering that Ascension is more about the "big picture", intrigue, resources and inquisitorial behind-the-scenes politics the Vindicare just doesn't fit there in any sensible way. Actually the only good thing about the class is that you can use it completely well with Deathwing marines...

Now Callidus, on the other hand.... They would make great ascended characters.

As for other temples, Eversor are not playable as they are even more "one-trick-pony-in-a-tightly-sealed-box". Culexus viability depends a hell of a lot on how a particular GM sees them. The official, fluff-canon bits are that they all untouchables of high power and are specialized in assassinating psykers. There is also the bit about Animus Speculum telling that one part of that instrument is actually keep their powers in check so they are not harmfull to people around them. There is a lot of room even inside the canon. You can equally well portray them as Eversor-like mindwashed psychopaths, life-draining vampires or more similar to "common" untouchables with training and gear to match OA operator.

Venenum temple is a bit of a mystery. We know they value subtlety and poisoning and we know the story of Urhua:

"Urhua Thereaux was an Assassin of the Venenum Temple, sent to assassinate the renegade Planetary Governor Yawell in 563.M37. The ship Thereaux was travelling on departed but was caught in a warp rift which held it in temporal stasis for 698 years. When the ship emerged, Thereaux and the crew were unaware of the temporal shift. Thereaux proceeded to the target, only to find the Governor long dead and replaced by an anti-Imperial committee with one thousand members. Given that the rulers of the world were still anti-Imperial, Thereaux spent three days poisoning each of the chairs in the council auditorium to kill all of the members. "

As for Vanus temple all we have is... nothing. There is no official fluff on them apart from the name which means "Empty". Thats a great thing because you can write anything you want there. My version of Vanus is that they are the guys whose victims are never found. They are masters of stealth and deception and specialized in removing targets so that no body or clues remain to be found. Its a mystery as if the target just vanished out into a thin air. Depending on the target this "vanishing act" might be spiced with rumors either confirming or denying the death of the target... all depending on what kind of psychological or political impact is wanted.

The most important thing, in my opinion, is that there is not a single word on how many temples exist. We know the six names because they were mentioned in 3rd ed. Codex, some say Vindicare, Eversor, Callidus and Culexus are "major" temples, but actually there is no indication of this anywhere. I believe those four have received most "screen time" simply because they are the ones that can actually be used in table-top wargame like 40K original is.

Polaria said:

Now the reason, I think anyway, that they picked the Vindicare is that while it's just awesome in combat (as the fluff would have you belive) at least they are rubbish in social situations.

If you could play Callidus and be 'that good' in combat AND be a master of disguise why would anyone play anything else?

I thought Vanus were the ones who used sabotage? Or was that just an aspect of the Callidus maybe..

Tempeste said:

Nope, Vanus are the ones involved in sabotage and demolitions. You were correct there. Callidus are sent in for more "personal" strikes, or when major infiltration is required, from my view of them.

Bear in mind the Vanus sabotage+demo aspect was simply a musing on the part of Gav Thorpe on Warseer in 2007, not an actual assertion of truth. I must confess, despite having been fond of the sabotage version, I rather enjoy the idea of them being a 'make them completely disappear' temple. I do very much like that as an idea, now to ruminate upon it...

I really like the "disappear" idea as well. I can see such a temple being called in to remove some vile fiend deemed so terrible by the powers that be that all trace of that fiend's existence has to be removed, everyone who ever saw them, ever spoke with them, etc. It's crazy, over the top, but something about some kind of engineered government created killer monster-in-the-shadows who could spend decades hunting down anyone and everyone connected in any way to some arch-heretic while burning any record connected to that heretic, and every scribe who ever accessed those records, ect, something like that just really appeals to me. :-)

Graver said:

and this would be my take on an assassin with the skill of V from "V for Vendetta" someone i plan on creating for a DH game i want to run. except for the whole getting called a terrorist thing he was perfectly in cover for over 20 years (movie time) or 5 if you are considering the graphic novel

Read this extract http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/coming-soon/Nemesis.html

Origin of Vanus Temple (and all others) shall be revealed!

ThenDoctor said:

I can still see him/her/ it being called a terrorist. I mean, it's not like your average Planetary/City Government is going to be clued in enough on the Adeptus Assassinorum to know that the guy going round making things disappear and causing huge tinfoil-hat-generating conspiracies and coverups on your own **** planet without your knowledge is doing it for your own benefit.

I can see a fair few of these 'coverups' being blamed on bogeymen, or 'Arch-Heretics' as it were

I always recommend to take a look to the Witch Hunters CODEX.

There you can find a description of the Calexus Temple Assassins, the Callidus Temple Assassins, the Evesors Temple Assassins, the Vindicare Temple Assassins, and my favorite ones: the Death-Cult Assassins.

They all have different weaponery and abilities, like polymorphous equipment, legendary weapons and even strange poisonous substances. In the Inquisitors Hanbook you will be able to find enough gear to build any of these assassins, except for the toxins part that you will find it in the Game Masters Kit.

Have fun and keep rolling!!!

Resurrecting this thread because last half of it was spent speculating on Vanus Temple... Well, now it seems the Vanus Temple role has been confirmed and it wasn't "making their targets vanish" (like I proposed) or "making their targets vanish in huge explosion" (like someone else said):

They are intelligence-gatherers, in matters of strategy and tactics their insight is unparalleled. They often assassinate their targets indirectly using their intelligence and knowledge to bring down targets. Fon Tariel, an infocyte of Clade Vanus during the Horus Heresy noted that: 'the cleanest kill is one that another performs in your stead with no knowledge of your incitement.'

This based on the new Nemesis novel of the Horus Heresy series.