So what I'm taking away from the (great) convo here is that "success" was probably a bad term to use for one of the dice results, since sometimes you don't care about successes as getting opportunities is what will lead you to the "success" you're actually after?

Very unintuitive. 😅

(FYI, for those who were wondering, the Ikoma Bard in question is avoiding combat because of story reasons. He's sustained a permanent injury to his right hand that makes properly wielding a weapon impossible. )

21 minutes ago, Bayushi Tsubaki said:

So what I'm taking away from the (great) convo here is that "success" was probably a bad term to use for one of the dice results, since sometimes you don't care about successes as getting opportunities is what will lead you to the "success" you're actually after?

Very unintuitive. 😅

You are not incorrect. It doesn't mean it will always play out like that, because there are many different situations. But, a lot of the time, there are different "similar" outcomes depending if you go for successes or opportunities.

lets use this example:

Bayushi Felix wants to taunt and infuriate Akodo Anette.

situation 1; Bayushi Felix doesn't have the Fanning the Flames technique nor does his player know about it.
so, the GM ask Bayushi Felix to make a Social(fire) check and decide on whatever TN feels appropriate, or uses Anette's vigilance, then, upon succeeding, Felix successfuly infuriate Anette and the GM decide on what that means.

situation 2; Bayushi Felix have the Fanning the Flames technique.
so, the GM ask Bayushi Felix to make a Social(fire) check and decide on whatever TN feels appropriate, or uses Anette's vigilance. Then Felix can decide to totally fail his check and use all his opportunities with Fanning the Flame to put Strife on Anette and make her suffer the Enraged condition.
But, Felix did not succeed on his check so in theory Anette is totally not infuriated (but she took strife and is enraged).
So as a GM, you have to come up with how to make Anette not infuriated but still enraged and strifed.
edit: or, Roll with the punches and just accept that the technique is simply better than just the regular check with successes and that it bypass succeeding at all in some cirmustances. (which is how I play it out)

so yeah, the game is weird like that. the system was put together quickly by designers that were not used to design RPG.
does it make it an unplayable or unfun system ? I don't think so. It still does have a lot of redeeming qualities. But you need to be ready to juggle with a lot of things as the core rules are flaccid.

6 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

Roll with the punches and just accept that the technique is simply better than just the regular check with successes

Which kind of... makes sense when you think about it. Felix with Fanning the Flames (aka F^3) has more options than his Fanning-the-Flames-less counterpart to achieve his goal. He can do it both via successes and via opportunities. And that's only fair: he did pay 3xp to get that technique.

To make it interesting, the GM can assign slightly different outcomes to either avenue: Fanning the Flames works as per the written rules (adds Strife and enrages), but actual success will instead force the target into Fire stance and cause her to attack. And if the roll is reaaaaally good, both outcomes can be achieved!

I guess the point I've been trying to make is that I, as the GM, am responsible for what success and failure actually mean. A player might want to fish for opportunities, but then it's my job as a GM to make actual success more enticing. Generally I believe that "success" dictates whether a scene/conflict ends in the player's favor or not, while opportunity adds details and possibly drama.

Taking the example with Felix and Akodo-san, keep in mind that "enraged" is a specific condition with specific mechanical effects.. all it does is make crits more devastating.. so in a social situation that has no effect at all. On the other hand, "taunt and infuriate" is a little vague.. what goal is the player actually trying to achieve in the scene? Is the goal to make Akodo-san attack (and possibly kill) someone in court? If that's the case. keep in mind that using strife to take Akodo-san over her composure doesn't actually have that effect.. Akodo-san gets to choose whether she Unmasks or not. Even if she chooses to unmask, Akodo-san might not do so by attacking. (perhaps she unmasks by fidgeting with her clothing) Finally, if she does so by attacking, she is likely to attack Felix himself.. however if Felix successfully incites Akodo-san to attack, then Felix can not only make sure the attack happens, but he can also incite Akodo-san to attack a specific target.