Sorry if this has been discussed anywhere, but I was just curious about the fact that millions, if not billions of these clones were made, and in theory, had the same biological urges as any other male human. And that for those who survived long enough (ie, long enough to live for a few years at least), it's not unreasonable to assume they might get to boinking somebody they liked. Which would make for something of an interesting genetic introduction to the population, of possibly thousands of humans who can trace their ancestry back to this one particular dude. Sort of like Genghis Khan, but less rapey and conquesty. That might make for some fun stories perhaps. That an not-insignificant percentage of say, a single planet's population (perhaps one frequented for any Leave they might get), could end up having generations with the same father. Might be neat to see how that would spread out through the galaxy in the long term, sort of like a subspecies of human. Not necessarily with different stats, but just a cultural thing.

That certainly seems possible, and it's definitely intriguing. I'd allow it.

I don't remember reading or hearing anything about the clones being sterile. It would make sense from a certain point of view, and it would probably be a minor matter for the Kaminoans to make the change to Jango's genetic template. (Or maybe they didn't need to, if you think him wanting a clone for a son isn't just for his ego.)

But I would also believe them just not bothering, or if you only need it for a specific character, maybe it's not an infallible process.

Slow down, dude. It was just a kiss...

1 hour ago, KungFuFerret said:

Sorry if this has been discussed anywhere, but I was just curious about the fact that millions, if not billions of these clones were made, and in theory, had the same biological urges as any other male human. And that for those who survived long enough (ie, long enough to live for a few years at least), it's not unreasonable to assume they might get to boinking somebody they liked. Which would make for something of an interesting genetic introduction to the population, of possibly thousands of humans who can trace their ancestry back to this one particular dude. Sort of like Genghis Khan, but less rapey and conquesty. That might make for some fun stories perhaps. That an not-insignificant percentage of say, a single planet's population (perhaps one frequented for any Leave they might get), could end up having generations with the same father. Might be neat to see how that would spread out through the galaxy in the long term, sort of like a subspecies of human. Not necessarily with different stats, but just a cultural thing.

There is an episode of The Clone Wars called Deserter (I think) where a clone abandons his unit and attempts to live a peaceful life. Anyways it show s him marrying (a twi’lek lady I think) and he has two kids who look kind of like they could be human twi’lek hybrids.

So, it seems there could be a basis for this in canon.

15 minutes ago, slope123 said:

There is an episode of The Clone Wars called Deserter (I think) where a clone abandons his unit and attempts to live a peaceful life. Anyways it show s him marrying (a twi’lek lady I think) and he has two kids who look kind of like they could be human twi’lek hybrids.

So, it seems there could be a basis for this in canon.

Did they ever actually clarify that? I vaguely remember that episode, but my takeaway from that was he simply was like their step-dad. Granted my memory of that show is spotty at best, but I wasn't aware that human/twi'lek hybrids were possible at that time. So I assumed "oh, they have tentacles, not his kids then".

I mean, I don't really care if it's canon or not for my own table, as I'll ignore canon to my heart's delight, I was just curious if they ever explored that. Because it felt like a fun little subplot for the galaxy at large. Because it's not unknown for an occupying military force in a foreign country (or planet in this case), to leave behind a significant number of children to young women, and I don't see why the clones would be much different. *shrugs* Just kind of a fun little thought experiment and backstory for an NPC I might make one day.

59 minutes ago, CaptainRaspberry said:

That certainly seems possible, and it's definitely intriguing. I'd allow it.

I don't remember reading or hearing anything about the clones being sterile. It would make sense from a certain point of view, and it would probably be a minor matter for the Kaminoans to make the change to Jango's genetic template. (Or maybe they didn't need to, if you think him wanting a clone for a son isn't just for his ego.)

But I would also believe them just not bothering, or if you only need it for a specific character, maybe it's not an infallible process.

Considering they didn't just genetically engineer the clones to be loyal to Order 66, and apparently had to use controlling chips implanted in their brains, that would imply that the Kaminoans can't make infinite changes to the biological makeup of the genetic material. Sterilizing all of them might've just been more work than it was worth, considering that might've thrown off other hormonal balances without a real need to do so.

1 minute ago, KungFuFerret said:

Did they ever actually clarify that? I vaguely remember that episode, but my takeaway from that was he simply was like their step-dad. Granted my memory of that show is spotty at best, but I wasn't aware that human/twi'lek hybrids were possible at that time. So I assumed "oh, they have tentacles, not his kids then".

I mean, I don't really care if it's canon or not for my own table, as I'll ignore canon to my heart's delight, I was just curious if they ever explored that. Because it felt like a fun little subplot for the galaxy at large. Because it's not unknown for an occupying military force in a foreign country (or planet in this case), to leave behind a significant number of children to young women, and I don't see why the clones would be much different. *shrugs* Just kind of a fun little thought experiment and backstory for an NPC I might make one day.     

I don’t know of any clarification (but I bet there is a video interview on StarWars.com about this episode). I kind of just always assumed they were some sort of hybrids since they didn’t look like anything I knew of at the time. At this point it could really go either way based on what Disney intends to do.

As for in game. I actually like the idea. There could even be an interesting sub-plot where a character tries to find their “actual” father, but are having trouble because of the matching DNA. I’ll have to remember this for future use.

In Legends, specifcially, in the Republic Commando books, one of the main characters, the clone commando Darman has a relationship with (and secretly marries Mandalorian style) his jedi commander, Etain Tur-Mukan , and fathers a Force-sensitive son with her as a result. So, yes, clones can father children.

Cool, again I will always ignore canon for my own table if the story needs it, just neat to know it was actually considered by someone else in the franchise.

10 minutes ago, KungFuFerret said:

Cool, again I will always ignore canon for my own table if the story needs it, just neat to know it was actually considered by someone else in the franchise.

Well, nothing in canon says that they can't breed, so...

3 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Well, nothing in canon says that they can't breed, so...

You and I both know that won't stop a nerd from obsessing that since it is/is not stated then said thing does/doesn't exist. I was mostly just curious if anyone else had actually written a story that included that in it. I find cloning and the moral/ethical questions about said technology very enjoyable in my scifi, and for the most part, it's something completely ignored in most of the Star Wars material. Granted I haven't read about 99% of the Legacy stuff over the decades, but I never see it really mentioned in chatter when the subject comes up, and I don't recall any canon characters that established their "clone heritage" as a plot point. So as far as I knew, it was untouched material. Very fertile material IMO.

I always assumed they could.

A character that I didn’t end up playing was going to be the son of a one-armed former clone commando/imperial recruiter who had his father’s helmet and gauntlet vibroblade.

Ended up going with a force sensitive scoundrel because my wife wanted to play a combat focused character and I didn’t want to step on her toes, so I never explored the character much beyond his backstory.

Edit: Just to add, but I’ve always wondered what kind of societal impact legions of retired clone troopers could have on planets like Mandalore.

The Deserter is clarified in the book The Clone Wars Episode Guide, written by Jason Fry.

There is a sidebar note that reads, "Suu Lawquane was raising two children alone before she met Cut -- a man with a mysterious past, yearning for a family to call his own."

Drawing from Legends, one of the story arcs in the Republic Commando series revolves around a Clone Commando and a young female Jedi commander/general having a child (which came across as unnecessarily creepy in how Karen Traviss tackled it), so biologically speaking it does seem to be possible.

Given that the clone troopers weren't just simply exterminated once the Clone Wars ended, I'd say that it's quite likely that there are people out in the galaxy that have the same genetic father. That is unless there was some element in the training/conditioning to try and make them have an asexual outlook, but biological impulses can be a funny thing, and fiction is replete with stories across all genres of humans overcoming extreme conditioning to instead act on biological impulses, whether it be beneficial or detrimental.

Now if you want delve into the matter, one thing to consider is that given the frequent life-or-death situations they found themselves, it's not entirely out of the question that clone troopers might have formed emotional/romantic bonds with other clone troopers. True, no progeny would be created, but there's nothing to suggest in either Legends or the new canon that clone troopers were "wired" to be of one particular orientation. Admittedly, I could see the Kamonians instilling programming along with all the combat data that was imparted via flash learning to try and suppress such 'useless' biological urges, likely to make the clone troopers be asexual (they were created to fight a war after all). How well it takes may well vary from clone to clone based upon their own experiences; ones that have more opportunity to see what life away from constant warfare is like might be quicker to subvert that conditioning than clones were are almost constantly in the trenches or otherwise don't get to mingle with the broader civilian populace.

Seems like KungFuFerret's campaign is being set in the Rebellion Era, so that last paragraph may not have much relevance to the larger campaign. Though it might be interesting to have a PC who was adopted and their two dads are a pair of retired clone troopers, and certainly explain why the PC in question has such formidable combat skills. Heck, perhaps the PC was the illegitimate child of a Jed Knight that the clone troopers served under, and in the wake of Order 66 the two clones decided to make amends for their actions by raising their fallen general's offspring? It'd certainly be one heck of a story hook.

33 minutes ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Now if you want delve into the matter, one thing to consider is that given the frequent life-or-death situations they found themselves, it's not entirely out of the question that clone troopers might have formed emotional/romantic bonds with other clone troopers. True, no progeny would be created, but there's nothing to suggest in either Legends or the new canon that clone troopers were "wired" to be of one particular orientation.

No, but they were templated from a single dna source, and at least a few of those clones were apparently hetero, or at least bisexual if you want to leave the door open. Assuming they don't have a lot of variance, it would imply the host was into the opposite sex at least somewhat.

I don't really care either way though, LGBTQ clone troopers is perfectly fine, I just assume with that many clones, at least some would be in a position to procreate, again, assuming they have the urges at all. Which, in at least a few examples from the franchise, seems to be the case.

It does sort of contradict my thought experiment though, or at least the most common example of it in storytelling. The child of a war, a soldier parent, dead before they were ever born, but on a literal galactic scale. Half-siblings to potentially millions of other people scattered across the galaxy. Again, I'm extrapolating from some real world examples, the classic "hooked up with a prostitute while on leave, then got shipped out, never saw her again." , which has a lot of real world, and narrative examples. And IRL, those groups tend to have a unique place in the culture of their society, either positive or negative. I just find the added layer of "and they all have the exact same genetic dad." an interesting extra layer of story element. Lending weight to the "you really remind me of this guy I met on Zebulan 12 a few years ago. Same eyes, same jaw, I SWEAR you two could be related!" (this is sort of a personal thing for me, as all my life, I would always meet people, and very VERY often they'd say I reminded them of someone they knew, sometimes even people of the opposite gender).

So yeah, I mean people can expand on it however they want, considering how loosely substantiated by canon my question is, it would hardly make sense for me to say making further variations is bad. I'm a firm believer in "if it makes for a good story, do it, and screw canon."

42 minutes ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Seems like KungFuFerret's campaign is being set in the Rebellion Era, so that last paragraph may not have much relevance to the larger campaign. Though it might be interesting to have a PC who was adopted and their two dads are a pair of retired clone troopers, and certainly explain why the PC in question has such formidable combat skills. Heck, perhaps the PC was the illegitimate child of a Jed Knight that the clone troopers served under, and in the wake of Order 66 the two clones decided to make amends for their actions by raising their fallen general's offspring? It'd certainly be one heck of a story hook.

That would be an interesting story, especially when you do the inevitable "They are the ones who killed my actual parents" kind of reveal. Though since that would mean the Jedi got busy bumping fun bits with someone else (which the Order frowned on), it could also just be some Youngling that survived the purge by hiding until after the clones purged their control chip or whatever. Either story would be really cool to explore though.

You guys bring up an interesting question. Not that it’s terribly important or relevant to the overall story, but was Jango Fett heterosexual? Do we have any canonical evidence of his sexuality or is he, as far as we know, just a life long bachelor that resorted to having himself cloned in order to procreate?

Obviously we have evidence that some of his clones were, but I have no idea if he or Boba was.

1 minute ago, AnomalousAuthor said:

You guys bring up an interesting question. Not that’s its terribly important or relevant to the overall story, but was Jango Fett heterosexual? Do we have any canonical evidence of his sexuality or is he, as far as we know, just a life long bachelor that resorted to having himself cloned in order to have procreate?

Obviously we have evidence that some of his clones were, but I have no idea if he or Boba was.

No we have no canon evidence, for obvious reasons in a movie made for kids involving space wizards with laser swords, the sexual orientation of a side villain wasn't very important information

I just assume the cloning team didn't bother to change his orientation, since it doesn't matter for combat readiness, so I would assume they clones would share that orientation. I mean when you are literally bred to a specified genetic structure, the idea of genetic variance is significantly reduced. Then again, there are identical twins who have different orientations, so even with that sameness of genetics, it could play out that way.

Either way seems fine to me, as I'm really more interested in the story of the potential army of children (not an actual army, just a lot of kids) from this one guy, assuming clones get as busy in star wars as military men have done in the past during wartime. Which is to say, quite a lot

Not that it’s terribly important to me, but I’d imagine that sexual orientation might vary within the clone population similarly to how it can vary between identical twins, which are the closest analog that we have to clones.

edit: A point that I see you made, lol.

1 minute ago, AnomalousAuthor said:

Not that it’s terribly important to me, but I’d imagine that sexual orientation might vary within the clone population similarly to how it can vary between identical twins, which are the closest analog that we have to clones.

edit: A point that I see you made, lol.

Heh, yeah I mean it's certainly possible, but that is an important (but not really) question. Just how much variance would there be in an army of clones bred to be soldiers? I got the impression the customer was pretty specific in their design specs for the clones. Again, doesn't matter to me either way, it's all fiction so they can be whatever the player/GM needs them to be.

Just now, KungFuFerret said:

Heh, yeah I mean it's certainly possible, but that is an important (but not really) question. Just how much variance would there be in an army of clones bred to be soldiers? I got the impression the customer was pretty specific in their design specs for the clones. Again, doesn't matter to me either way, it's all fiction so they can be whatever the player/GM needs them to be.

Totally agree. I think we’d need a lot more details on how the cloning technology works in order to get a firm answer either way. And, that’s enough ambiguity right there for GMs and players to have the freedom to do with it what they will.

9 hours ago, AnomalousAuthor said:

You guys bring up an interesting question. Not that it’s terribly important or relevant to the overall story, but was Jango Fett heterosexual? Do we have any canonical evidence of his sexuality or is he, as far as we know, just a life long bachelor that resorted to having himself cloned in order to procreate?

Does it ultimately matter? Sexual preference isn't solely the domain of genetics, so whichever direction Jango orientated towards doesn't mean his clones would have the same preference.

Jango (and seemingly Boba) were both workaholics with no time for much in the way of a social life, though in Legends at least Boba did have a wife for a brief time and a daughter that he reconnected with much later in his life. It's quite likely that Jango saw it as an opportunity to have the "perfect" apprentice/heir that he could mold as he saw fit from the ground up.

1 hour ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Does it ultimately matter? Sexual preference isn't solely the domain of genetics, so whichever direction Jango orientated towards doesn't mean his clones would have the same preference.

Jango (and seemingly Boba) were both workaholics with no time for much in the way of a social life, though in Legends at least Boba did have a wife for a brief time and a daughter that he reconnected with much later in his life. It's quite likely that Jango saw it as an opportunity to have the "perfect" apprentice/heir that he could mold as he saw fit from the ground up.

I completely agree. It doesn’t affect the story in any way, shape, or form. Just an interesting question.

I’ve also not read every new novel or comic, nor have I seen the resistance cartoon. Was somewhat curious if either was more fully fleshed out in any of those other canonical sources.

Another question it might raise - how might the artificially accelerated aging that the Kaminoans engineered impact the offspring? Would that modification carry through in whole or part?

2 hours ago, Nytwyng said:

Another question it might raise - how might the artificially accelerated aging that the Kaminoans engineered impact the offspring? Would that modification carry through in whole or part?

A good resource for this, would be the book series Old Man's War, by John Scalzi. It has an aspect of it's storyline, being that of grown soldiers, though this is mostly covered in book 2 (Ghost Brigade). I highly recommend the series to anyone that likes a pretty hard-scifi, with a good bit of humor to it as well. He brings up a lot of the questions about the ramifications of vat grown people, and how that would impact their development. Again, mostly in Ghost Brigades, but it is touched on in the first book Old Man's War.

Also, the old tv show Space: Above and Beyond from the 90s had vat grown humans, bred specifically for a war the humans were in. It was a really good storyline I think, as best as I can recall from that show. They were a second class citizen, treated like crap by most normals, given slur terms (tubies, and nipple necks being the most common used. their umbilical cord was in the back of their necks, hence the derogatory term). One of the main characters in the squad of space marines the show follows, was an invitro, and he was like, maybe 2 years old if that. Another "old man" invitro who was the ripe old age of 20+ (and looked like a guy in his late 40s, early 50s) was their CO. It was just... a really cool story element to the show. Seriously that is a very under rated show in my opinion. Check it out.

In broad terms, of how it would impact them long term, is that they would probably be very naive about a lot of things. Childlike in some aspects of their behavior. Sure they've got a ton of downloaded data to their brain, but they've still only been conscious for a short amount of time relatively speaking. I actually tried to reflect this in a clone PC I'm playing in a pbp game, where he sort of occasionally realizes that tons of the things he knows about, he's never seen. Like someone made a comment about some kind of bird, like we would say "you are crazy as a cuckoo bird!" , and he was like "I've never seen one of those...or any bird for that matter." Because he hadn't left the cloning facilities yet. So it made him sort of feel disconnected at times, when he had time for reflection.

Eh, again, Old Man's War, Space: Above and Beyond, delved into this very topic WAY better than I can in this thread. Check them out for inspiration.

I definitely remember watching Space: Above and Beyond.

But I was thinking more about the offspring you were asking if the clones could have. Would the rapid aging modification be carried by the kids; would they grow more rapidly than normal (even if not quite as rapidly as the clones had been), with a shortened lifespan? Could it possibly be passed on in a dormant state, but kick in later in life, or be triggered and/or mutated by a disease causing them to suddenly start aging even faster than their clone father?

Could make interesting story fodder if a clone’s 5 year old is suddenly struck ill, and their body begins aging faster at a geometric progression while the sickness lasts.

9 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

I definitely remember watching Space: Above and Beyond.

But I was thinking more about the offspring you were asking if the clones could have. Would the rapid aging modification be carried by the kids; would they grow more rapidly than normal (even if not quite as rapidly as the clones had been), with a shortened lifespan? Could it possibly be passed on in a dormant state, but kick in later in life, or be triggered and/or mutated by a disease causing them to suddenly start aging even faster than their clone father?

Could make interesting story fodder if a clone’s 5 year old is suddenly struck ill, and their body begins aging faster at a geometric progression while the sickness lasts.

Ah, yeah that is interesting. I would assume it wouldn't work that way, and that the accelerated aging was a factor of the equipment and procedures used to grow them, and that after they were decanted, they would age as normal. I would assume that would be the same for their offspring from the old fashioned method. At least that's how most stories involving cloning work, anything weird about their biological cycle ends when they get out of the tank, and after that they proceed as normal in every other aspect of their life. That's how I'd run it at my table anyway, unless a player had a good story reason for including it into the story. Or I had a really cool idea for an NPC that included it.