So I'm hoping that some of you can help me with a little problem.

Here's the situation: I have an Acolyte, whose Inquisitor is an highly secretive and deceitful Oblationist, who is constantly testing the limits of discretion.

He just recently entered into a contract with a well-known and dangerous criminal within the Calixis Sector ("Giggling Hemlock"), to kill the second-in-command of the Arbites forces on a sector hive-world (Grove's Fall). In his defense, he called off the hit before it was too late. But he actually hired one of the party to carry out the hit. He did this in an attempt to have "Hemlock" carry out a bit of "inter-party" oneupsmanship ... which tees me off to no end. However, I allowed him to carry this as far as chose to. But then, now that the whole truth is known by his Inquisitor, including the complicity of a couple of his team-mates, I am wondering just what I should do with him. I can not allow him to get off "scot-free", as that will only encourage more of the same behavior. However, he did call off the hit before it was too late. And his erstwhile accomplices did have second thoughts, and took action to prevent the worst. However, since they were unable to capture "Giggling Hemlock" for said Demi-Precentor (the second in command of the Arbites), their Inquisitor had to "burn" some Influence with the Arbites, particularly with those on Grove's Fall.

So, my question is, what should I do with the Acolyte that initiated this, and his less-than-wise party-members?

Any ideas would be welcome. Thanks in advance.

In past games my Inquisitor had debriefings on board his ship. (A "small" non warp craft) Each of the acolytes was seated on a small hidden airlock. If an acolyte really screwed up they got spaced. They stayed spaced until a one of the more responsible PCs agreed to take full responsibility for the wayward acolyte. At which point the PC was recovered, taken to the medbay, and implanted with a small explosive device. The responsible got a small transmitter that could detonate it..... If the spaced PC performed well for a few missions it was removed. If the responsible PC failed to prevent the spaced PC from getting out of line and didn't punish the spaced PC. Well then he/she was on the hot seat next debrief. (This never happened with my group....)

This goes to my view of Inquisitors. They aren't prone to half measures. They reward, and punish on a grand scale.

Dalnor Surloc said:

Thanks, Dalnor. This is kind of what I was thinking, metaphorically at least, as well. So, based on what I hear from others, my "intrepid trouble-maker" is likely about to have a very bad day. Ah well, he knows that we're in the grim dark future, he just chose to ignore that fact.

I, too, like Dalnor Surloc's idea, but it does carry the danger that none of the PCs will take responsibility and the one who gets spaced stays spaced. This can lead to resentment between players, which can be quite nasty. But I'm sure you know your players.

Personally, I like to look for adventure hooks in these situations. Here, I'd perhaps send the Acolytes on a mission where A) their loyalty is sorely tested and B) they end up bound more tightly to the Inquisitor. An example of this could be the time-honored tradition of having to perform unpleasant duties on loved ones (a common, and apparently effective, means of indoctrination). That's one lesson they could never ignore. >

Hmmmmm

Well now that my inner demon is working...there is an interesting idea to mull over. The PC did a deal with hemlock...which means that a verbal agreement was reached. So the PC almost got himself and his group into trouble with his mouth.

Now the explosive collar is always a good way to increas "good" behavior but then none of the other PCs want the burden of having to be the one to "press the button"

Here is an excelent solution......... Have a device implanted into the trouble making PCs mouth...now you can have it do one of two things

1. Blow his mouth off causing him to need to seek out a vox replacment...usually only able to achive through the help of his master
2. The device instead releases a toxin or shocking ability that renders the tongue useless...thus no more social interaction

Both of these options are fun and allow another PC to "press the button" with the need for messy clean up........ Hope that helps

Didn't Hemlock give the PC 1 half of a poison just in case he/she proved untrustworthy? Wouldn't now, before the PC could jeopardize Hemlocks position and life by divulging too much info be a good time for Hemlock to turn his attentions on the PC? After all, they made a contract and then broke it (I'd think calling it off and then divulging the details to the Inquisition as breaking it); I'd think Hemlock would need to clean up the mess least word get out into the underworld that you don't need to keep your agreements with Hemlock and you can waist his time with jobs that your not committed to 100%, and that you can jeopardise his position and life by going to the authorities.

The PC has just effectively crossed the most accomplished assassin and poisoner in all of the Calixis Sector. If that won't add up to being punishment enough, I don't know what is... of course, tat won't stop his boss from punishing him too, but still...

Graver said:

True. But as you say, that won't stop his very annoyed Inquisitor from making an example, either. That's one of the great things about Hemlock ... he's very patient. He can wait until the Inquisitor is done with him. And yes, the silly acolyte has already imbibed one half of a rather nasty binary poison, as has his erstwhile partner-in-crime. I figure I'll wait until they think they are off-the-hook with Hemlock, feeling all warm and fuzzy about the world, then SURPRISE! "Hi guys, remember me? Yeah, I'm the one you broke a deal with, and then had the nerve to send Arbites after me. Tsk, tsk. Ah well, no good deed goes unpunished. No bad feelings, I hope. Nothing personal. You know, just business and all that. Have a nice afterlife."

But in the meantime, I'd like to make it clear that such irresponsible behavior won't go unpunished, from the Inquisitor's perspective. Just seeing what nifty ideas you folks here can come up with.

Hi SisterCat,

as my first group simply started being stupid (not intentionly stupid but just stupid like "well, le´ts stop thinking and simply DO THIS") it ended with their characters being permanently dismissed (and either killed or redeployed to NIRVANA off screen). The =I= simply decided not to employ them any longer so they dropped out of game. New characters.

To be honest, they were "pre-made for getting used to the game" to begin with.

But as the Inquisitor in question, I would thinking of dismissing the acolythe in question from service. He disrupted the mission and endangered the team and my status. For no good reason. I would not.. could not allow for something like this to go on.

So, why should I torture him, scream at him or waste any more time with him? I would dismiss him on a rather backwater planet (civilized, but not TO civilized) and tell him that I will come back later... picking up a pre-ordered substitute.

Game-Group-Mechanic:
Give your problem-player a pre-made character or allow him to "offer" one build on his own. With less points then the rest. The original pc will be dropped "for now" and the =I= will remind everyone that this "one-up-behaviour" will not be tolerated as soon as it endangers/harms/disrupts misson, master and team. After a couple of sessions (mission finisehd) the =I= will go back to the backwater planet and offer the offending pc a choice: getting back into the =I= or a trip home with a jump freigther.

If the pc decides "home"..he will be out of the game and the player needs a new pc. His "forma figur" will suffer die by accident (astral knife) during the ride with the jump freighter before he reaches destination.

Gregorius21778 said:

Hi Gregorius,

While that is a simple and elegant solution, there is one tiny problem. The character in question is also now a Daemon-Vessel (their Inquisitor is a Oblationist), so she's not likely to inflict him on some poor, unsuspecting planet ... well, not an Imperial planet, anyway. Maybe a dead world, or a death world, or a alien-held planet. But any of those could, and likely would, lead to a very quick ... OOPS! ... Daemon on the loose!

So, there's no just dropping him off on some low-tech planet in the boonies. Hence, my request for creative, if not instantly or necessarily, lethal punishments. She does have a bit invested in his sorry hide.

Sister Cat said:

How about (therefore) capture the vessel and make it undergo a more sever binding of the host... destroying some more of the flesh of the vessel and his sanity? (Im taling +Insanity points; Minus Toughnes/Agility/Strenght.. and a look that does not allow for non-concealed appearance any longer)

Gregorius21778 said:

Heehee. Yeah, I know, but it's what my players wanted, so I am trying to let them have their fun.

She (Inq.) doesn't know for sure. But he (the daemon-vessel acolyte) only recently acquired his stowaway daemon, and until then he had almost no corruption. So it seems unlikely to her that it would have that much control yet. He only just this past session broke 10 corruption.

Now that is an interesting suggestion. I like it.

Here's an idea I have been toying with myself. Let me know what you think.

My idea was to have his Inquisitor have the acolyte in question forcibly exorcised, as per the elite advance package in RH. In this case, the character does not have enough unspent XP to pay for the advance, so would be required to burn all of his remaining Fate Points to pay for it. This now means that he's no longer such an imminent threat, and still has the potential to be a useful tool of the Emperor, but if he screws up so magnificently again, he can safely be stranded on any number of less-than-pleasant worlds, or just purged.

Hmm ... but now with your very intriguing idea added to the pot, I think I may just give the character a choice. Subject himself to forcible exorcism, or subject himself to preemptive binding, which will do nasty things to his poor thrashed body (as you suggest).

Yep, I am beginning to warm to this idea. Let him choose his fate. Granted, either way it is an unpleasant choice, but at least it will be his choice. In reality, he's lucky the Inquisitor didn't just have the party assassin put a bullet in his head. Silly acolyte.

Your thoughts?

EDIT: Oh, and thanks for all the fun and interesting ideas, Gregorius, and all of the other posters. Your input is appreciated. If you think of anything else, I don't run my game again until this weekend (Saturday night), so I still have time to incorporate any new devilish ideas you may have. Thanks again.

Hi SisterCat

*hiting myself with the flat hand against the head* Exorcismen! Yes, of course! Why didn´ I...

Anyway, forcing such a choice upon the player will be a very good idea. Never the less, for gaming reason I would not force upon him the burning of all of his fate points. It will greatly reduce his "game-ability" since in the high-stages, he need suchs points to be successfull. In addition, it robs him of this "glory moments", even more the an enforced weaker figure would.

Simply, force him to pay the "missing xp" later and do not allow him any increases until the dept is paid. This will do it nicely.

And do not forget to to have a heavy hand on the other one as well. To play "one up", it needs to. Let your Inquisitor make it clear that this was as much a warning for the other one as it was punishment for the (this time) bigger culprit. A simple "next time, it is you" goes a long way.

Gregorius21778 said:

Hmm ... yep, that is a good point. You may be right. But since the RAW requires the burning of all FP when the character lacks the required XP, I find myself uncertain. I don't want to go too easy on him, or he won't learn anything from the experience. I may compromise, and leave him with 1 FP. Of course, he may choose the binding instead. So, we'll just see.

And don't worry, the other one is not off the hook either. But this character is not nearly so troublesome to deal with.

Talkink RAW:

Remember that RAW assumes that this is a character choice volunteerly taken by the player for his pc (like in the case of a daemonic possesion the dice bestowed upon him) and not a punishment inflicted upon the player as "the possible better of two evils".

Leaving him one sounds fine with me.

True. I'll think on it some more. I do like the idea of making him pay XP for the change, even if he has to do so over time. So I may still use your suggestion. I just want to make sure the player knows that this is more than just a "slap on the wrist", and that the punishment fits both the transgression and the grim dark setting.

@More then a slap on the wrist

I think it will be As far as I understood, your player´s character is a daemon-vessel because he wanted to be. Thereby, the first option ("binding") is more akin to "I´ll limit your access to your toys and cut down your free time in general" while the second (Exorcismen) is equivalent to "I´ll throw your toy to the garbage AND you will go to bed now & without an evening meal".

I think the player might start to "throw himself to the ground, crying and flaying".

Gregorius21778 said:

HA! Too true ... when you put it like that. Okay, the XP over time will suffice. The advance calls for the burning of one FP regardless of XP, so that should be enough to get his attention.

Dalnor Surloc said:

Also known as an "open airlock policy." Great idea , I love it. I think even the player it happened to in my group would laugh at the absurdity in it, although it's fairly certain they would let the PC stay spaced and die.. unless they'd imagine how fun it would be to have another PC at beck and call with an explosive collar... would SO get abused to the max.

We actually have managed to get a fairly friendly inter-party rivalry in our group. Somehow they still manage to work together anyway. Their fear of their Inquisitor is greater than their dislike for one another

RedSkull said:

Too much tech. If you'd like to save the cash and provide a visible reminder to all the Acolytes, the Inq can just temporarily shut the offenders mouth with an industrial stapler. Three 3/8" thick staples locking the offenders mouth shut goes a long way towards teaching lessons.

Illithidelderbrain said:

Nice. And while it might ... might ... be enough to discourage the co-conspirators from any further such shenanigans, it simply is not enough for the instigator of the whole situation. His skull bone is just too thick. If I'm going to teach him anything, I've got to get his attention first, and that means hit him in his XP, or in permanent Characteristic Damage to his precious (and unnaturally high) physical characteristics.

Thanks for the idea though. I'll keep it in mind the next time one of the acolytes gets in trouble by running off at the mouth.

Sister Cat said:

Sounds like a fun evening in the Excruciator's chamber. While arbitrary characteristic damage is distasteful to me, you know your players much better than I do. Just be sure to hit him where it hurts. And once the knife is stuck, twist it a little to make the point obviously clear. The important part is laying out, in no uncertain terms, EXACTLY why this is happening to him, and what must be done to rectify the mis-step.

Illithidelderbrain said:

Agreed. But I wouldn't call it arbitrary. The only way he will get permanent characteristic damage is if he chooses the binding option. The permanent characteristic damage seemed like the best way to represent all the horrible things that would have to be done to him during the process of being bound like a Daemonhost, but without him already having the supernatural fortitude of a Daemon. If he chooses the exorcism route, then he will just have to pay the XP cost, and burn a permanent FP, as per the elite advance package.

In any case, you are correct. The most important part will be handled while he is strapped to the table being prepped for whichever "procedure" he chooses. And he WILL know exactly why it is happening, and how to prevent worse in the future. Jezail (his Inquisitor) is hard, but fair.

You have to understand, he is being punished for several reasons:

1. For undertaking a mission for a known criminal, without consulting his Inquisitor.

2. For attempting to have an official of the Adeptus Arbites (one of planetary rank, no less) assassinated, without consulting his Inquisitor.

3. For conspiring with a few of his teammates to have it accomplished, with the intent (if they got caught) to blame a teammate his character dislikes.

4. For doing all of these things not in the name of the Emperor, or to eradicate His enemies, but for his own selfish dislike of one of his teammates, and

5. For attempting to do all of this behind his Inquisitor's back.

The exact choice of punishment just seems appropriate, since his Inq. can't be sure how much of what he did was his own doing, and how much was his Daemonic stowaway. Therefore, in her mind, his character is simply becoming too dangerous to both her mission and her cover (she is an "undercover" Oblationist, after all), and the best way to ensure his best behavior in the future is to either bind or exorcise him, in a way that costs him something dear. That way, he knows that she is deadly serious, and if he causes her more grief in the future, she may just decide to cut her losses and him out of an airlock.

Sister Cat said:

"Sister", your Inquisitor isn´t harsh. He is lax. As you state it, the pc in question misused the power of the holy ordos (and thereby, misused the Name of the God-Emporer) for his own selfish ends.

Normally, I would call this a death warrant.

Given the forced exorcism option (a good one IMO):

Burn one fate point.

Allow the charactrer to go into "XP debt" if they don't have sufficient points for the package. A few XP short should not interfere with the timing of story-relevant events in your game, so go ahead and assign the elite package, consume some unspent XP and if needed let their "unspent XP total" dip into the negatives. In effect this is like having pre-spent XP that must be paid back before they have a free pool again.

Of particular note and interest: Have you looked at the Posession "monster trait" in the NPC section of the core book? It has rules for active posession attempts, but also includes the consequences for having somehow survived posession and then somehow getting free. It comes with the usual insanity and corruption points, but also some rather unpleasant permanent stat damage.

If all of that does not make the character/player sit up and take notice then perhaps they are more a candidate for a Psycannon bolt in the head?

ZillaPrime said:

Hmm ... since events have conspired to prevent me from running my game again for now, I will look into this option. It seems to have merit. I would prefer to avoid killing him outright, since that will only embitter him when he brings in his next character ... potentially leading to more shenanigans.

But I still like the idea of letting him choose between pre-emptive binding and exorcism. In any case, I thank you for your thoughts. I will seriously consider them.

@Gregorius. Yes, I know. But for the reasons outlined above, I want to reserve the "final option" for only the most egregious offenses. Since the worst possible outcome of this farce was averted by the apparent "conscience" of those involved, and it was called off before major damage was done ...... and, since the two primary conspirators now have the most accomplished killer in the Calixis Sector gunning for them, I have decided to be more "understanding" than I intended. But never fear. As soon as I think they feel that they have gotten "off-the-hook" with Hemlock, he will reappear, with lethal intent.