What do y'all think about the Extra Clip item being used on revolvers? Is it enough to say that for revolvers, "extra clip" refers to a speedloader (basically, a device that you load your bullets into in advance so that you can reload your cylinder in a single go)?

How would you recreate the classic action-movie trope where a character's revolver runs out of ammo and they don't have a speedloader? You know the one: The villain is downstairs, and they'll be at your door in a few seconds, but you're fumbling with your bullets, trying to shove them in the cylinder, and they keep falling back out... Is this a case of a character who bought a box of bullets instead of an extra clip? How many maneuvers would you charge for someone to reload a revolver bullet-by-bullet?

9 minutes ago, SavageBob said:

What do y'all think about the Extra Clip item being used on revolvers? Is it enough to say that for revolvers, "extra clip" refers to a speedloader (basically, a device that you load your bullets into in advance so that you can reload your cylinder in a single go)?

How would you recreate the classic action-movie trope where a character's revolver runs out of ammo and they don't have a speedloader? You know the one: The villain is downstairs, and they'll be at your door in a few seconds, but you're fumbling with your bullets, trying to shove them in the cylinder, and they keep falling back out... Is this a case of a character who bought a box of bullets instead of an extra clip? How many maneuvers would you charge for someone to reload a revolver bullet-by-bullet?

The game doesn't much care about magazine type. A removable 'clip' magazine is no different here from an internal 'tube' magazine on a shotgun or the 'cylinder" magazine of a revolver.

I'd agree with HappyDaze on this one. See page 89 of the CRB. A despair or a certain number of threats would be the best to capture that feeling. That maybe where you want to throw a story point at the difficulty. Otherwise you'd have slow down combat and make the weapon have Prepare so they have to use a round to load unless a loader was ready to go.

In Huzz's weapon list, he has a new item quality called Click-Click for revolvers. They run out of ammo on hhh instead of just a d to represent their reduced ammo capacity compared to a magazine fed weapon (automatic pistol).

Thanks for the ideas so far. I think to get to that iconic scene of dropping the bullets just requires that the player doesn't have the extra clip item (here, representing a speedloader). A player who bought an extra clip specifically wants to avoid this kind of situation.

But assuming no extra clip, the PC has to reload the gun from a box of loose bullets or some such. I guess I'm trying to figure out how that works. Just one prepare maneuver seems too lenient, as that essentially means that a box of bullets in a drawer is the same an extra clip through the lens of game mechanics. So how do you dramatize that painfully (and dramatically) slow reload process for the player who doesn't have the extra clip?

Maybe the GM calls for a Discipline check? Failure just means the PC is too rattled to concentrate on reloading the gun, but failure with threat might mean the bullets go spilling across the floor, and the bad guys get a chance to close the distance...

It's probably more detail than most games require, but still worth noting: speedloaders only work with double-action revolvers, not single-action. The only way to "speedload" a single-action revolver is to have a loaded alternate cylinder for the weapon, and be able to remove the empty cylinder and replace it with a full one, which is essentially dismantling the weapon during combat and putting it back together (call it an average Mechanics check).

That level of detail is not necessary for most campaigns, but if you were playing a campaign in which both single- and double-action revolvers were present (Old West for example), it could be worth taking into account.

10 hours ago, SavageBob said:

What   do y'all think about the Extra Clip item being used on revolvers?

I think that's exactly what Extra Clip's are for. Depending on the setting, I'd allow the purchase of Extra Clips (or an item like them) for any weapon that requires ammunition; though you'd generally have to specify which weapon it was for, an Extra Clip for your Assault Rifle isn't the same as an Extra Clip for a Laser Pistol...

10 hours ago, SavageBob said:

How would      you recreate the classic action-movie trope where a character's  revolver runs out of ammo and they don't have a speedloader?

Mechanically, if the character doesn't have an Extra Clip for their Revolver (defined in this case as a ready speedloader), they simply shouldn't be allowed to reload it during the encounter. Otherwise that defeats the purpose of having spent a Dispair to make them run out of ammo in the first place.

The narrative of 'fumbling while trying to load loose ammo one-at-a-time' could be used to justify why the character's revolver remains 'out-of-ammo' for the remainder of the encounter, despite their wasted attempts to reload it. Meanwhile, having 'a box of loose ammo in your pocket' is the narrative justification for why your character is able to reload their Revolver after the encounter ends.

However, realistically speaking a minute-long round is enough time to reload almost any weapon if you actually have the munitions to do so. So if reloading that weapon during the encounter is vital to the heroes' success, or if I were inclined to compromise and allow the PC to fail-foreward, I have a few options:

First, I could allow them to reload their weapon as an action instead of as a maneuver. The skill used would depend upon the situation, and the player's proposed solution. Using the example above, they might have to perfom an Average Discipline check to 'steadily load one bullet at a time'. With success indicating you've reloaded the weapon. During a hectic battle scene, I might allow someone to perform a Perception check to generate an Extra Clip for their weapon.

Second, I could allow them to spend one Triumph on unrelated Perception and Vigilance checks to generate an Extra Clip for their weapon (circumstances allowing).

If ther isn't any rules for reloading but a Talent, it's because this system doesn't bother with ammo counting. PCs never run out of ammo during an encounter. Except when the GM uses a despair to make them run out of ammo. Then only those who bought the right Talent can reload.

With a round a minute long I see it as PCs making sure their weapon is always loaded without the need to include it in the narration. But if you want to include it for drama purpose, you can use threats to simulate the PC fumbling with ammos. On the next round you add as many black dices as the number of threats rolled. The weapon wasn't properly reloaded so the next roll is more difficult, but the PC didn't run full out of ammo.

With this system I think it's better to make use of advantages, threats, triumphs and despairs to add drama to a scene.

10 hours ago, lyinggod said:

In Huzz's weapon list, he has a new item quality called Click-Click for revolvers. They run out of ammo on hhh instead of just a d to represent their reduced ammo capacity compared to a magazine fed weapon (automatic pistol).

When EotE released I made a quality "Ammo Hog" out of the ammo increases described in RAW for the Heavy Blaster Pistol (which is identical to Click-Click ). It made more sense to make it a quality then something you had to remember from the weapon's description. I then extended it to be used for such things as full-auto firearms. So, I completely agree a quality like this could be used for revolvers due to their lower capacity. Easy addition.

On 3/15/2019 at 8:14 AM, Direach said:

It's probably more detail than most games require, but still worth noting: speedloaders only work with double-action revolvers, not single-action. The only way to "speedload" a single-action revolver is to have a loaded alternate cylinder for the weapon, and be able to remove the empty cylinder and replace it with a full one, which is essentially dismantling the weapon during combat and putting it back together (call it an average Mechanics check).

That level of detail is not necessary for most campaigns, but if you were playing a campaign in which both single- and double-action revolvers were present (Old West for example), it could be worth taking into account.

I am afraid I will have to challenge you on this. The Schofield revolver is single action only (except later versions). The S&W K-38 is a newer model revolver that is single action only but lets you load with a speed loader. But Yes-- most single action revolvers are not compatible with a speed loader.

As others have said the "extra clip" does not necessarily mean an actual clip of ammunition but thematically means enough rounds of appropriate ammunition (be it in a clip, a magazine, ammo belt, a cartridge, powerpack, etc.). I do think that "6 guns" and other revolvers should certainly be one that needs to use the Click-Click rules. I think the Click Click rules also work well for Post-Apochalypic settings where ammo is scarce too (and extra reloads should be expensive in those settings!).

I'm with shamp on this one as well regarding Post-Apocalyptic settings or gritty Western settings where ammo is scarce or even currency. I would assume in these cases there would be player buy-in and agreement that every bullet will be counted because it would add to the enjoyment of a gritty game.

And I'm also in agreement with others for "Extra Reloads" abstracting the fact you have extra bullets / ammo to reload your gun. I would still give it a maneuver to reload a six shooter revolver. I remember seeing the Dark Tower movie (I know I know, don't get me started) but he reloaded that gun fast! 😃

I don't know if I would go so far as to track individual bullets. Given the length of a combat round, a single "attack" could just as easily be one, carefully aimed shot or six quick hip-shots.

However, if ammunition is suposed to be a scarce resource (such as in a western setting, or in most modern horror campaigns); than Extra Clips should be relatively plentiful, and Dispair can frequently be spent to force the PCs to use 'em. Tracking how many clips you have left isn't much different than tracking painkillers, so it shouldn't add too much overhead to implement.