Still reading through the core book and enjoying it, but one thing that has always annoyed me is the "Tao of Shinsei." I get that it's a fantasy setting and there's no need to get it right historically, but this mishmash of Daoism, Buddhism, and Shinto is rather weird.

Most importantly, the word "tao," which is properly Romanized "dao" these days, is simply 道, which means "path or way" and is rendered "do" in Japanese. Thus, 武士道, or bushido in Japanese, which is wushi dao in Chinese. So why not just call it the "Do of Shinsei?" I presume it's because tao has more resonance to English speakers, even though most pronounce it incorrectly (it's a "d" not a "t" sound). Sort of like the redundancy of referring to Asian "lung/long" dragons. The word 龍 (long) means "dragon" so a "long dragon" is technically a "dragon dragon." Just the professor in me coming out I guess.

These redundant place names must drive you crazy, then, hey?

Anyway, yes, religion in Rokugan is all sorts of weird. Personally, I try to separate Fortunism and Shinseism from each other a bit, so that the former more resembles Shinto and the later more resembles Buddhism (with consequent division on their role in social life – down to the former responsible for presiding over wedding ceremonies and the later over funerals), but that's more of an "in my Rokugan" / "at my table" thing than the way the books (usually) present the two.

A decision had to be made, and Rokugani is not meant to follow the rules of any particular Asian language. You're probably right about "The Tao of Shinsei" resonating best with western players since "The Tao of Pooh" is one of the most popular introductions to Taoism for westerners. With that said, keep in mind that Rokugan has many different dialects and the "Official" dialect is something that clans would get into political fights in order to influence.

2 hours ago, ColdObiWan said:

These redundant place names must drive you crazy, then, hey?

Anyway, yes, religion in Rokugan is all sorts of weird. Personally, I try to separate Fortunism and Shinseism from each other a bit, so that the former more resembles Shinto and the later more resembles Buddhism (with consequent division on their role in social life – down to the former responsible for presiding over wedding ceremonies and the later over funerals), but that's more of an "in my Rokugan" / "at my table" thing than the way the books (usually) present the two.

Yes; it's like when authors try to act like they are more sophisticated by saying the Huanghe River rather than just the Yellow River, not realizing that Huang He literally means "Yellow River."

At the end of the day, it's just cool to have a pseudo-Asian setting and I'm not going to get too worked up about the inconsistencies. The old TSR "Oriental Adventures" supplements were an absolute mess in that respect, mashing up all kinds of names, terminologies and Romanization systems.

As for Shinseido (Way of Shinsei) it's pretty close to the name of that Japanese cosmetics company anyhow...

7 hours ago, Masakiyo said:

So why not just call it the "Do of Shinsei?"

Because Rokugan is not japan, and they are not speaking japanese.

And also because this setting was written in 1995 by guys basing it off samurai movies and hastily found quotes from The Book of Five Rings. Hence the endemic grammatical problems with not using Japanese word order, such as for place names.

EDIT: Also, technically, the Tao of Shinsei refers to the book of his teachings, as recorded by the Kami Shiba, and published by the Isawa. The belief system is usually called Shinseism. Similar to how Akodo no Kami's seminal work is titled Leadership, but the code of honor gained from it is Bushido. There are a couple of other works about Shinsei and his teachings, such as the Thunder Dialogue (which is an abbreviation).

3 hours ago, Masakiyo said:

Yes; it's like when authors try to act like they are more sophisticated by saying the Huanghe River rather than just the Yellow River, not realizing that Huang He literally means "Yellow River."

Believe me, I understand.

My family surname irked me a bit when I looked into the history, because it means "Cole's/Cowl's hill" - because the people who coined the place name didn't realise "Cole" is a generic word meaning "a hill" in an slightly older local dialect of cornish.

So my name is technically Hillhill because a distance ancestor wasn't paying attention.

14 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:

Hence the endemic grammatical problems with not using Japanese word order, such as for place names.

The inconsistancy with how to form Vassal family personal names is another one. The tradition doesn't have to be the same as Japan - it just has to be consistent.

Consistency is certainly a virtue, though again we are talking about a fantasy game here so maybe that's getting too technical.

Although since someone brought up the topic of Bushido, it's worth noting that the term "bushido" itself was barely ever used in Japan prior to the late 19th century. It was essentially invented in the Meiji era by nationalists looking for a way to extol the supposed virtues of the now-defunct samurai class. The samurai themselves never had a distinct "bushido code" at all. This book explains the process: https://www.amazon.com/Inventing-Way-Samurai-Nationalism-Internationalism/dp/0198754256/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3KD29PJX6OBRP&keywords=inventing+the+way+of+the+samurai&qid=1552655160&s=books&sprefix=inventing+the+way+of+%2Caps%2C170&sr=1-1-catcorr

Again, however, the idea of such a code of behavior is great for gaming purposes and still captures the popular imagination in Japan, so it's cool to have it. In fact, I just bought a can of Bushido sake the other day, that had all the tenets of bushido listed in kanji on the side of the can. It wasn't too bad, either...

19 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

The inconsistancy with how to form Vassal family personal names is another one. The tradition doesn't have to be the same as Japan - it just has to be consistent.

Ah, but it is consistent.. just not in the way we expect. As I've mentioned, each clan essentially has it's own preferred dialect and conventions. When the empire needs an "official ruling" on something, each clan will make their best arguments for why things should be their way and then the emperor will decide, pretty much based on the political situation at the moment. That process happens consistently, which leads to inconsistent rulings.. but since each clan gets a say, each clan is fairly happy with the situation.

14 hours ago, Masakiyo said:

Again, however, the idea of such a code of behavior is great for gaming purposes and still captures the popular imagination in Japan, so it's cool to have it. In fact, I just bought a can of Bushido sake the other day, that had all the tenets of bushido listed in kanji on the side of the can. It wasn't too bad, either...

One of the reasons I love Hagakure so much is because Yamamoto occasionally mentions arguments that the samurai had about "The way of the samurai", making it clear that there was never really a consistent "way of the samurai" that applied to all samurai. he talks a little about differences in various provinces (one province insists they should seek perfection as warriors to the exclusion of all else, another province insists they must study everything, so they can assist their lord in all matters.) and also about how samurai beliefs change over time (for example, seppuku at the death of one's lord going from common practice to outlawed).

He also famously argues that the 47 ronin lacked honor because they waited too long to avenge the death of their lord, and they were too concerned about whether their revenge was successful or not.

The point being that consistency may be a virtue, but it's not something that ever existed in feudal japan.. let alone when you start mixing in other Asian cultures.

24 minutes ago, Black_Rabbit_Inle said:

One of the reasons I love Hagakure so much is because Yamamoto occasionally mentions arguments that the samurai had about "The way of the samurai", making it clear that there was never really a consistent "way of the samurai" that applied to all samurai. he talks a little about differences in various provinces (one province insists they should seek perfection as warriors to the exclusion of all else, another province insists they must study everything, so they can assist their lord in all matters.) and also about how samurai beliefs change over time (for example, seppuku at the death of one's lord going from common practice to outlawed).

He also famously argues that the 47 ronin lacked honor because they waited too long to avenge the death of their lord, and they were too concerned about whether their revenge was successful or not.

The point being that consistency may be a virtue, but it's not something that ever existed in feudal japan.. let alone when you start mixing in other Asian cultures.

And of course Yamamoto was the ultimate "tatami mat samurai" who never saw real combat and dodged seppuku when his lord died, claiming he had been told not to do it. But he starts the book out extolling the virtues of dying for principles...

He would be a good L5R character come to think of it. Already has that ninjo/giri conflict going on.

The Hagakure is also internally quoted by L5R, using one of the alternate names.