I can’t decide which is better. 😞 Help me please your my only hope.

1 minute ago, Fuzzywookie said:

I can’t decide which is better. 😞 Help me please your my only hope.

I don’t find one better than the other as they both serve different functions.

My two cents: the Kuat wins. It's better suited to be a front arc oriented ship, as such vessels naturally close on their target (especially another front arc ship, like another ISD.) The Cymoon could certainly hope to kill two small ships at range, but the presence of MSU has dwindled and it's at a disadvantage in slugging matches against another ISD or MC75. Twin turbolasers and/or an encouragement to take Vader for dice control make it more expensive than the Kuat, the Chimaera title often makes the fleet command easier to access, and the lack of a defensive retrofit and less reliable damage output hurt it further.

Cymoons are still probably better in triple (and possibly dual) ISD builds due to their better ability to concentrate fire on the same target. Sometimes you also want both Avenger and a fleet command. Otherwise I can't imagine not just finding eight points for an ISD-2. This ship is already a third to half your list, after all.

ISD-2.

Why choose? Take one of each!

I see the Cymoon as a support ship. I take it for the fleet command slot, and as long to medium range support, but it's never my main hitter ( those are usually a pair of Gladiators with APT, OE AND SFO).

The Kuat, on the other hand, it's designed as a tanky close range brawler. Completely different functions.

We’ve found that the Imperial access to both IF and Vader make the Cymoon hit near 100% with both shots. Add in spinals and CF command and you have an almost guaranteed 8 damage at long range, 10 at medium.

Kuat only pulls ahead for me when you look at AvengerBT or that crazy Screed HIE/ACM build. Otherwise it doesn’t have a meaningful advantage over the Cymoon. Outside of those two specific builds, I don’t really see a reason to take a Kuat. The ISD1 just seems to be a better all around.

I think it depends on your style of play. Are you aggressive? I would go with the Kuat. Otherwise Vader Cymoons are my favorite.

I say the Cymoon, but then again I am all about the red dice, so there is that.

57 minutes ago, Church14 said:

Kuat only pulls ahead for me when you look at AvengerBT or that crazy Screed HIE/ACM build. Otherwise it doesn’t have a meaningful advantage over the Cymoon. Outside of those two specific builds, I don’t really see a reason to take a Kuat. The ISD1 just seems to be a better all around.

Might be the first time I've heard this in a long while. I don't think I've seen an ISD1 on the table since the Kuat came out.

Both have their own functions.

I'd use a kuat more often personally. (with the built in defensive slot it has an advantage in my book).


I can think of 3 or 4 builds for the Kuat off hand. The Cymoon however always ends up being vader, tua, GTs, ecms, spinals, X-i7s and some title when I put it in a list. (If I want a long range gunner with no brace why wouldn't I use a kitten instead?).

44 minutes ago, Bertie Wooster said:

Might be the first time I've heard this in a long while. I don't think I've seen an ISD1 on the table since the Kuat came out.

Might be a local thing, but the ISD1 and Kuat:

-Have near identical armaments.

-Both have officer, weapons team, offensive retrofit, and ion slots.

-ISD 1 gets 2 more squadron, offensive retrofit, and turbolaser while the Kuat gets a defensive retrofit and ordinance slot.

With Tua, then the ISD1 can gain a defensive slot so the differences are 2 squads, offensive retrofit, and turbolaser versus crew and ordinance.

Kuat’s ONLY selling point over ISD1 is essentially the ordinance slot. Since ordinance virtually always means a point blank build, then that means AvengerBT or Screed FCT build. ISD1 does everything else as good for slightly cheaper or does it better.

11 hours ago, Fuzzywookie said:

I can’t decide which is better. 😞 Help me please your my only hope.

Observation

• No Armada ship, squadron or upgrade has ever had a point revision in any FAQ.
• The Armada point system is therefore infallible.
• They both cost 112 points.

Conclusion

• It must follow that they are both equally powerful and it is heresy to suggest otherwise.
• I am caught in a logical quandary.....

I am loving the Cymoon at the moment, after an initial preference for the Kuat.

- Kuat for me is great in a first player list, and comes stapled with ECMs, ExRax, Leading Shots, Boarding Troopers and Avenger. In a large ship brawl, it cannot be beaten. It has killed an MC75 in a single shot from full health.

- If you end up as second player (or hate wasting points on bidding like me) then the Cymoon is best. It has a massive threat range in front which is difficult to avoid, and the side arcs are also great for nibbling small fast ships to death.

- I also feel like the Cymoon works in a cheaper build e.g. I just run mine with Thrawn, IF!, Strategic Advisor, and Quad Battery Turrets. A great sniper. Leaving more points for squadrons and other ships!

55 minutes ago, Church14 said:

Might be a local thing, but the ISD1 and Kuat:

-Have near identical armaments.

-Both have officer, weapons team, offensive retrofit, and ion slots.

-ISD 1 gets 2 more squadron, offensive retrofit, and turbolaser while the Kuat gets a defensive retrofit and ordinance slot.

With Tua, then the ISD1 can gain a defensive slot so the differences are 2 squads, offensive retrofit, and turbolaser versus crew and ordinance.

Kuat’s ONLY selling point over ISD1 is essentially the ordinance slot. Since ordinance virtually always means a point blank build, then that means AvengerBT or Screed FCT build. ISD1 does everything else as good for slightly cheaper or does it better.

I see where your coming from, but I have to disagree with you.

"With Tua, then the ISD1 can gain a defensive slot so the differences are 2 squads, offensive retrofit, and turbolaser versus crew and ordinance. "

The Crew slot (excepting a few exceptional titles) is easily the most significant upgrade slot. The ability for the kuat to bring ECM and Intel officer/SAD or Pryce brunson etc. Cannot be understated.

This puts the ISD-1 in a spot that is Inferior to the Kuat for the brawling role especially vs other large ships. However if there is Squads involved the Isd-1 can be better if used to Suppliment your squads.

Edit: another point is the presence of a Blue die in every attack arc for the Kuat adds more flexibility with it's use of the Ion slot, specifically the use of Leading shots with the side arcs which allows for the Use of APTs or Exrax with Rerolls out of all arcs. another thing the ISD-1 cannot do

Kuat wins out for me it has a higher damage potential and is more durable. The cymoon has its role and place, but Kuat is the better overall ship.

I think that this is an attempt to compare apples and oranges, given that these ships are designed for different roles and excel in those roles:

Kuat is a heavy brawler designed to go against large ships and produce high burst damage at close range. It will struggle against small ships that can outmaneuver it.

Cymoon on the other hand is a fleet support ship and a sniper. It provides extra capabilities for the fleet as a whole (cheaper access to IF) and is effective vs small ships and flotillas (if one needs a capability to reliably one-shot flotillas at long range, Cymoon is the ship), however it will struggle vs ECM-equipped large ships.

So it all depends on the rest of the fleet and individual preference as far as overall strategy goes. I believe that these ships are equally effective in the roles they're designed for.

(As far as Kuat vs ISD1 comparison goes, these ships are both brawlers (putting aside the fact that ISD1 can also be used in aircraft carrier role) with Kuat being a harder hitting single strike brawler vs ISD1 being a cheaper one (ISD1/OE/XI7 is only 120 points!) or the one that can brawl with guaranteed accuracy (due to access to H9). So again - they're both useful instruments and its down to a personal preference and a need. So I currently see Kuat as sharing a brawler role with ISD1 (as opposed to displacing ISD1 in that role)).

Kuat, hands down.

54 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Kuat, hands down.

3x Kuat, OE, ExR, RBD + Motti = brawla-time!

I've had issues with Kuats getting overwhelmed. Likely due to poor flying on my part, but at the same time its a brawler who can't really put damage out at long range. So there is a chance to be pecked to death by red dice.

Cymoon on the other hand has been one of the most consistently successful ships when loaded with QBTs, H9s and Gunnery teams. You have to lurk around the battle field at speed 1 looking to avoid a fair fight. But it's easier to see when you'll get overwhelmed earlier due to the more timid play style. Its also worth mentioning that you can get double black flack on the Cymoon.

Although to be honest those who said they are completely different platforms. Cymoon is a second line turbolaser battery and the Kuat is a front line brawler.

They perform totally different functions so it's hard to compare. I have to say, I'm not a fan of either compared to the ISD-I or ISD-II. The Kuat is a brawler and Vader crew is excellent on it.

I prefer an ISD-I for BT Avenger.

The Cymoon is a hard ship to use well without Admiral Vader, hence my like of the more reliable and flexible ISD-II. It's lack of dice manipulation without Vader makes it hit hard or not at all. It's lack of a Defensive slot means Tua is almost always taking the officer slot and that will make using Krennic risky.

Overall, I give the edge to the Kuat in total utility.

ISD's in order of my preference. ISD-II > ISD-I > Kuat > Cymoon

Kuat. Hands down, Kuat.

One step further, in order of preference, ISD II, Kuat, ISD I, Cymoon.

Ask @Darth Sanguis about the meat grinder that is "Tripple D, Full Frontal Shootity"

Kuat with Devastator, SA, ECM, FCT, ACM, HIE, & Commanded by Screed, makes up 1/3 of my favorite list to run.

My order of preference Cymoon, ISD II, ISD I, Kuat.

8 hours ago, cynanbloodbane said:

"Tripple D, Full Frontal Shootity"

Bring a first aid kit... this one hurts

8 hours ago, CDAT said:

My order of preference Cymoon, ISD II, ISD I, Kuat.

This is precisely backwards from my preference, impressive!

Before cards like Jerjerrod or Minister Tua, I might have agreed, but now there's no reason to not go for Black-Dice throwing murder machines. It's not like an ISD, with its bag base and its capability for Speed 3 with Jerry turns, is ever gonna have to spend more than a round at long range pointlessly sniping away. And once you're up close... well the Kuat and the ISD1 hit worlds harder. Oh, did I mention they are cheaper, too?