With the last point cycle, we saw the introduction of having Variable Cost Upgrades via the Squad Builder. There are a number of them based off of all manner of things form Int to Agility. But I have an additional category. A number of instances. For many of the more "Degenerative" lists, we have seen it involves the spamming of a really good upgrade across a number of Platforms. Hyperspace Tracking Data on 3 Upsolons, VTG+Dorsals on 3+ generic ships.

Presently FFG has two options to "fix" this. either make the ships that carry them more expensive or as we saw with HTD just recost it to oblivion to prevent abuse. But for HTD who was original 1point and raised to 10points what if there was a middle ground?

Variable costing based on the number of instances of said nonlimited upgrade would be great as each copy of the list would just cost more than the last. But the cost is carried to all instance of the card. Hypothetically if HTD cost 5/8/10/11/12 or what you will so long as the data is balanced then bringing just two copies of the card would be 8points each but bringing a 3rd would be 10 points each a difference of 16 to 30 in the overall cost of your list.

This is the better compromise in my opinion as it doses not keep these cards from being used affordably but scales the cost for those who want to really take advantage of a good thing.

I like that idea. Some upgrade are naturally stronger the more instance of them you have (juke come to mind).
Personally I would be all for it. Prevent spam of upgrade that are unnaturally strong when taken too many times, and still like you pick a single instance of a card for a flavour/combo that you particularly love without being a risk of it being nerf to oblivion.

8 hours ago, CrazyVulcan_ said:

With the last point cycle, we saw the introduction of having Variable Cost Upgrades via the Squad Builder. There are a number of them based off of all manner of things form Int to Agility. But I have an additional category. A number of instances. For many of the more "Degenerative" lists, we have seen it involves the spamming of a really good upgrade across a number of Platforms. Hyperspace Tracking Data on 3 Upsolons, VTG+Dorsals on 3+ generic ships.

Presently FFG has two options to "fix" this. either make the ships that carry them more expensive or as we saw with HTD just recost it to oblivion to prevent abuse. But for HTD who was original 1point and raised to 10points what if there was a middle ground?

Variable costing based on the number of instances of said nonlimited upgrade would be great as each copy of the list would just cost more than the last. But the cost is carried to all instance of the card. Hypothetically if HTD cost 5/8/10/11/12 or what you will so long as the data is balanced then bringing just two copies of the card would be 8points each but bringing a 3rd would be 10 points each a difference of 16 to 30 in the overall cost of your list.

This is the better compromise in my opinion as it doses not keep these cards from being used affordably but scales the cost for those who want to really take advantage of a good thing.

It makes sense. I would also throw stuff like Juke in as an example - whether you think Juke is fairly priced or not (I feel it currently is), a fair observation is that multiple copies of Juke increase exponentially in value because you get 'money back' when it eliminates a rolled evade and your opponent doesn't have a focus to spend, which tends to happen with the second and third Juking attacker.

With the last few major events, I feel more and more certain that this should be an option in FFG's tool belt.

This should probably be in a different forum - it doesn't look like a rules question.

41 minutes ago, CrazyVulcan_ said:

With the last few major events, I feel more and more certain that this should be an option in FFG's tool belt.

I haven't seen the last few events, but from what ive been told, the 'Juke Abuse" seems to be focused on the Tie Phantom, which tells me, the ship itself is likely the one that needs adjusted. But i don't know. I just think its ridiculous you can fit so many Tie Phantoms in one squad.

4 minutes ago, Lyianx said:

I haven't seen the last few events, but from what ive been told, the 'Juke Abuse" seems to be focused on the Tie Phantom, which tells me, the ship itself is likely the one that needs adjusted. But i don't know. I just think its ridiculous you can fit so many Tie Phantoms in one squad.

I'd be pretty shocked if Juke abuse doesn't come up with N1s, espeically if you can get 5 with Juke in a list, or four with Juke, Passive Sensors and/or Synchronised Consoles, and torps.

Though, it doesn't look like that ship with have an unlimited elite generic, or even potentially any elite generics at all, so maybe not an issue.

6 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

I'd be pretty shocked if Juke abuse doesn't come up with N1s, espeically if you can get 5 with Juke in a list, or four with Juke, Passive Sensors and/or Synchronised Consoles, and torps.

Though, it doesn't look like that ship with have an unlimited elite generic, or even potentially any elite generics at all, so maybe not an issue.

They do have a generic (I2 IIRC) in the spread that you can see. But yeah my guess if that if they end up costed close to a-wings (say.... A-wings + 3 points) juke spam will definitely be a thing. Even just 2 generic + juke could be a solid support to one ace jedi or 2 semi-ace jedi.

On 3/13/2019 at 8:24 PM, CrazyVulcan_ said:

With the last point cycle, we saw the introduction of having Variable Cost Upgrades via the Squad Builder. There are a number of them based off of all manner of things form Int to Agility. But I have an additional category. A number of instances. For many of the more "Degenerative" lists, we have seen it involves the spamming of a really good upgrade across a number of Platforms. Hyperspace Tracking Data on 3 Upsolons, VTG+Dorsals on 3+ generic ships.

Presently FFG has two options to "fix" this. either make the ships that carry them more expensive or as we saw with HTD just recost it to oblivion to prevent abuse. But for HTD who was original 1point and raised to 10points what if there was a middle ground?

...

I LOVE this! My crazy thought: also do this with generic ships. That way you can toss a generic TIE into your build, say for 20 points, but then it scales up to prevent the “generic” pilot spam. I’m still not convinced some of the generic ships are worth their cost. They’re costed based on their spamability!

Nah tie is a good example. A single tie is rarely worth 23 points.

22 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Nah tie is a good example. A single tie is rarely worth 23 points.

Exactly, I will go farther and say they are costed with the Elite Pilote they can use...

On 5/29/2019 at 4:22 PM, DarthSempai said:

They do have a generic (I2 IIRC) in the spread that you can see.

But at Ini 2, chances are good it won't have a Talent slot to equip Juke. Its specifically an issue with the Phantoms because Sigma Squadron Ace has a Talent slot. Defender "Onyx Squadron Ace" does as well, but given they are nearly twice the cost, you cant even run more than 2 in a list. And the N-1 only having 2 attack means its not hitting as hard so Juke isn't as much of a threat as it is on a 3 attack ship. And those are the (currently) 3 ships that can easily gain evade tokens on top of other tokens. So i retain that this issue seems squarely aimed at the Tie Phantoms.

Honestly, increasing the cost of the Sigma's by 1 point (to 47) would be enough to reduce the number of Jukes to 2, which would likely be enough to bring it back in to balance. And thats given that it needs it. I mean, its powerful now, but perhaps people will start bringing counters to it without the need to adjust anything? Who knows.

Or.... maybe... just make other ship viable so you want to play something else...

Maybe the problem is not the fact that TIE Phantom are too good, but the fact that the Empire have nearly nothing playable except Named Elite Pilote...

4x TIE Phantom are far from crushing the game right now. They are good but they are not too good. But look at the Empire... Striker and Interceptor are kind of squishies for their price. The TIE Aggressor have no good cannon and cost the same price as the Y-Wing. (I'm not sure 1 agi is worth 3 life) They don't even have reload.

Punisher got nerfed a bit too much. TIE Reaper are ok, but they have no cool generic crew you would want on them. They are just mobile B-Wing for now.

TIE Advance v1 also too squishies for their price. TIE Advance x1 only Vader is viable because it is easy with him to get a Lock... Decimator are now kind of clunky and they broke their wheel (Removing the Blue Bank 2 was really bad )

So we are left with TIE Bomber, TIE Phantom, Palp or Vader Shuttle and the Named Pilote...