So, I call 1 evade with C-3PO. Roll 2 blanks. Reroll both with Han ability into evade/blank. Do I get the bonus evade from C-3PO?

C3PO triggers before dice modification. Hanning the dice is a modification. C3PO looks at the initial roll. No, you must use 3PO either on the initial roll or on the Han roll. No double dipping.

Personally, I think C-3PO is going to work only on the initial roll, and couldn't be used at all on a Han Roll. Han isn't rolling the dice, per se, but a zombie reroll--both alive and dead, both a reroll and not a reroll. But not being a reroll doesn't make Han a Roll, however.

But like all things related to Han Solo, there is no good answer.

Not to start another Han debate...

It not a re roll or an initial roll, but it is a "physical" *I know I'm asking for it* roll of the dice that can be 3POed.

All else fails, let the event judge, marshal, TO, whoever make the call.

Personally I say 3P0 can work for one or the other but not both.

c-3po checks for the exact number of results as soon as you've rolled. han triggers immediately after you've rolled and lets you reroll without it counting as a reroll for the purpose of other effects.

not 100% clear, but i'm going to say no, the dice have already been rolled and the results counted for c-3po when you can trigger han.

there is an argument to be made for the "if you do..." part of c-3po to be a player effect and that hans effect could be added to the ability queue before that, though.

my logic is that the c-3po effect has already been added to the ability queue before the roll and is being resolved. asking c-3po to wait and ignore results for the time being is not what his card says he can do.

there are, how ever, other effects that pause and lets other effects trigger during their resolution. they normally have some kind of wording indicating timing, though. (such as inertial dampeners "then gain 1 stress token").

letting a player split up player effects and adding parts of them to the ability queue in different places how ever he or she prefers does not seem like good practice.

Actually, in normal circumstances, I don't think anyone would even try and save the 3PO for the Haned roll anyway. So I'm gonna be in the only initial roll camp aswell.

Interesting.... thanks guys

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cSNaoKAThwjDhjjixO7u-MZZ3l5xu-LgKnRohhTIkYk/mobilebasic

Unofficial ruling for Han/3PO

Hooooboy.

I've been kind of hoping no-one would ask this one, because it's a mess. I'll preface it by saying my usual thing on Han questions: Han's wording is broken, he simultaneously counts both as and not as a modification, so he is nonfunctional by RAW. The rest is speculation on based on intent.

Prologue 1: Because Han is not a reroll but also a reroll, I'm not goign to use the term reroll for what his ability does. I'm going to call it Hanning the dice.

Prologue 2: it depends what you mean by 'work with' C-3PO. Do you mean 'can Han Han 3PO's die', or 'does 3PO work after Han Hans the dice

Two main options:

1: Hanning IS a modification: if Haning IS a modification, then it MUST take place after 3PO - 3PO triggers before the dice are rolled and is resolved immediately afterwards, outside the normal modification steps, so the evade he adds is added before the normal modification steps, and can be modified by both players as if it had been rolled with the rest of the dice, so you can Han that die. Obviously, this means you have to take the Hanned result (unless you have regular rerolls, which I think is only Lone Wolf or Elusive, for defence dice, other than the Rebel Falcon title.). It would be pretty rare you would want to, but if you need the extra evade to survive the reds coming at you, and you don't have the results you need yet, you could do it.

2: Hanning is not a modification: this changes Han's timing. That means it happens at the same timing as 3PO. So, you could use Han:

a: after you add the 3PO die. See 1.

b: before you add the 3PO die. At this point I think you could argue either way - that 3PO would look at the dice as they hit the table before you Hanned, or as they hit the table after, and I don't think either particularly has a stronger RAW case.

For my money the least controversial and most likely to match authorial intent is case 1, and that's how I'd rule it in a tournament.

But the real answer is the first answer I give to Han questions: Han is broken and non-functional without (at a bare minimum) clarification from FFG, or (preferable) errata, for which my suggested wording would be to change ''this does not count as rerolling for the purposes of other effects' to 'These dice do not count as having been rerolled for the purposes of other effects' which removes the simultaneity, and thus, the issue. Case 1 is definitely true, and you now have to do Han during the regular dice modification step, he IS limited by Magva, he cannot reroll dice which is opponent has rerolled, he is a modification and is thus blocked by Midnight, and he MUST be used after 3PO.

he IS limited      by Magva   ,

OH GOD!!!! HERE WE GO!!!

4 minutes ago, Croste said:

he IS limited      by Magva   ,

OH GOD!!!! HERE WE GO!!!

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

Hooooboy.

I've been kind of hoping no-one would ask this one, because it's a mess. I'll preface it by saying my usual thing on Han questions: Han's wording is broken, he simultaneously counts both as and not as a modification, so he is nonfunctional by RAW. The rest is speculation on based on intent.

Prologue 1: Because Han is not a reroll but also a reroll, I'm not goign to use the term reroll for what his ability does. I'm going to call it Hanning the dice.

Prologue 2: it depends what you mean by 'work with' C-3PO. Do you mean 'can Han Han 3PO's die', or 'does 3PO work after Han Hans the dice

Two main options:

1: Hanning IS a modification: if Haning IS a modification, then it MUST take place after 3PO - 3PO triggers before the dice are rolled and is resolved immediately afterwards, outside the normal modification steps, so the evade he adds is added before the normal modification steps, and can be modified by both players as if it had been rolled with the rest of the dice, so you can Han that die. Obviously, this means you have to take the Hanned result (unless you have regular rerolls, which I think is only Lone Wolf or Elusive, for defence dice, other than the Rebel Falcon title.). It would be pretty rare you would want to, but if you need the extra evade to survive the reds coming at you, and you don't have the results you need yet, you could do it.

2: Hanning is not a modification: this changes Han's timing. That means it happens at the same timing as 3PO. So, you could use Han:

a: after you add the 3PO die. See 1.

b: before you add the 3PO die. At this point I think you could argue either way - that 3PO would look at the dice as they hit the table before you Hanned, or as they hit the table after, and I don't think either particularly has a stronger RAW case.

For my money the least controversial and most likely to match authorial intent is case 1, and that's how I'd rule it in a tournament.

But the real answer is the first answer I give to Han questions: Han is broken and non-functional without (at a bare minimum) clarification from FFG, or (preferable) errata, for which my suggested wording would be to change ''this does not count as rerolling for the purposes of other effects' to 'These dice do not count as having been rerolled for the purposes of other effects' which removes the simultaneity, and thus, the issue. Case 1 is definitely true, and you now have to do Han during the regular dice modification step, he IS limited by Magva, he cannot reroll dice which is opponent has rerolled, he is a modification and is thus blocked by Midnight, and he MUST be used after 3PO.

Wait... I thought you was in the Magva doesn't affect Han side?

I'm in the 'Han is broken' side.

TYhe assertion related to Magva in my post is related to my proposed errata for Han, not to Han as he is currently written.

8 hours ago, Croste said:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cSNaoKAThwjDhjjixO7u-MZZ3l5xu-LgKnRohhTIkYk/mobilebasic

Unofficial ruling for Han/3PO

This is pretty much my take on Han/3PO as well. 3PO only triggers on the initial roll, but the evade die C-3PO would get rerolled if you wanted to use Han (which would almost surely be very bad).

//

Off Topic, but I really love their take on the interaction between something giving out two tokens (Chopper, Admiral Sloane) and something which triggers after recieving a token (Nien Nunb pilot). *One* token is dealt with by Nien Nunb. Not Sloane bypasses Nien entirely, not Nien can ignore Sloane. They split the difference with *one* stress discarded, one stress received. There's a perfect justice to that.

8 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

1: Hanning IS a modification: if Haning IS a modification, then it MUST take place after 3PO - 3PO triggers before the dice are rolled and is resolved immediately afterwards, outside the normal modification steps, so the evade he adds is added before the normal modification steps, and can be modified by both players as if it had been rolled with the rest of the dice, so you can Han that die. Obviously, this means you have to take the Hanned result (unless you have regular rerolls, which I think is only Lone Wolf or Elusive, for defence dice, other than the Rebel Falcon title.). It would be pretty rare you would want to, but if you need the extra evade to survive the reds coming at you, and you don't have the results you need yet, you could do it.

Why would Han being a modification affect the timing of his ability? C-3PO is a dice modification, yet his ability takes place outside of the dice modification step since he triggers before rolling the dice just as Han triggers after rolling dice. The timing of Han's ability should place it before the dice modification step and before the defender has a chance to reroll your dice.

Also, given the timing of the abilities, I'm pretty sure Han's reroll should occur before C-3PO adds his die since the ability queue should behave like so:

Before rolling Dice we trigger C-3PO adding his ability

Guess evade count (3PO) => Roll Dice => Add evade result if correct. (3PO)

After your roll the dice, Han would trigger adding his ability to the front of the ability queue.

Han your dice (Han Solo) => Add evade result if correct. (3PO)

C-3PO still states that you add an evade result if you rolled the right number of evades, not if you have the right number of evades and since Hanning is not a dice roll (reroll still debatable) it shouldn't affect whether or not C-3PO adds a die, but he should be able to reroll the dice before C-3PO's result is added.

Because unless they state otherwise, mods take place in the relevant mod step.

Though, Han could be argued to state otherwise.

Ugh, making him work on all rolls, not just attack/defence REALLY makes him difficult to write.

Writing those clauses separately would be grand.

Han is just a woefully poor piece of writing purely in order to get an ability to do more than it probably should anyway.

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

Han is just a woefully poor piece of writing purely in order to get an ability to do more than it probably should anyway.

Isn't it just.

i know I've disagreed with people on here about what he works, and doesn't work with; but that's only because of the lack of clarity (I like playing the game when we are all on the same page). I'm taking a Han build to the UK Systems next month, and have purposely left off 3PO because of the debate, I'm just hoping I don't have to deal with the Magva issue at any point.

21 minutes ago, xwingMinty said:

Isn't it just.

i know I've disagreed with people on here about what he works, and doesn't work with; but that's only because of the lack of clarity (I like playing the game when we are all on the same page). I'm taking a Han build to the UK Systems next month, and have purposely left off 3PO because of the debate, I'm just hoping I don't have to deal with the Magva issue at any point.

you shouldn't have to worry, magva is not a very competative choice for u-wings because of her cost. in either case, i would recommend you make sure to get at ruling from the organizers if hans roll is a modification or not and how his ability interacts with magva before the event.

32 minutes ago, xwingMinty said:

Isn't it just.

i know I've disagreed with people on here about what he works, and doesn't work with; but that's only because of the lack of clarity (I like playing the game when we are all on the same page). I'm taking a Han build to the UK Systems next month, and have purposely left off 3PO because of the debate, I'm just hoping I don't have to deal with the Magva issue at any point.

Or midnight. Or blinded pilot.

Han is broken. The fact that you feel you have to avoid certain combos with him lends weight to that, rather than detracting from it.

8 minutes ago, meffo said:

you shouldn't have to worry, magva is not a very competative choice for u-wings because of her cost. in either case, i would recommend you make sure to get at ruling from the organizers if hans roll is a modification or not and how his ability interacts with magva before the event.

Indeed I shall. Hopefully I won't need my Hyperspace list (that's the one he's in) anyway and I can survive 2 days of Systems Extended 😂 😂 😰 😂

7 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Or midnight. Or blinded pilot.

Han is broken. The fact that you feel you have to avoid certain combos with him lends weight to that, rather than detracting from it.

100% agree. that's better advice for you @xwingMinty - don't use him. he's not good for the game. harsh, but good advice none the less in my opinion. classic, probably the most iconic pilot of the most iconic ship in the game makes for a bad play experience. painful.

1 minute ago, meffo said:

100% agree. that's better advice for you @xwingMinty - don't use him. he's not good for the game. harsh, but good advice none the less in my opinion. classic, probably the most iconic pilot of the most iconic ship in the game makes for a bad play experience. painful.

Oh I'm not sure I agree there, if we stop playing him then FFG can just ignore the situation. No I'll still be taking him, and enjoying every minute I can use the most iconic ship in the game