https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2019/2/11/lost-legends/

A bit ahead of time but this is where we'll be able to chat about the new deck and how it plays once it's out, or discuss what nuggets of info we get in any updates.

And also a question: is the cover art recycled like some other recent art or new?

As well as how it could be used in an expansion (maybe something further down the line after all my current Terrinoth dabblings) and how FFG might make use of it.

The dwarf woman on the front looks like Shadar Runearmor (never released) art found in this thread: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1667128/unreleased-heros

The two look very similar (dwarf female, glowy rune hand, jeweled hairpiece, brunette) but there’s quite a few differences. It might be someone totally different, or just a later version of her.

isn't her Ulma as a mage healer ?

46 minutes ago, Lightningclaw said:

The dwarf woman on the front looks like Shadar Runearmor (never released) art found in this thread: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1667128/unreleased-heros

The two look very similar (dwarf female, glowy rune hand) but there’s quite a few differences. It might be someone totally different, or just a later version of her.

The hair, think it's the same, and though the hammer's gone the hands are very similar with the glowy stuff that's now signature Terrinoth, looks very much to me like the character redone in the newer art style.

(ROT page 71 has a possible update of Mad Carthos and I also noted that Landrec The Wise is in Heroes of Terrinoth also both in the new art style- and HoT seems to target the other games- Kari Wraithstalker from RWM a new character is in there too)

With the pairing of Varikas The Dead and Ruen The Living in the unreleased RTL spot, what if they have been working on new Descent stuff, that could at the very least include the missing heroes and the new ones from the RTL spot but it's just been a lengthy process as well as maybe interrupted by some other games developments? (I'm finding out how much work's involved with my own Descent/Genesys projects- there's more to it than you first think), after all check this request / response for new hero classes (the response was a joke but the fan feedback may still have got through!)

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/245115-the-future-of-2nd-edition/?page=7&tab=comments#comment-2944652

24 minutes ago, rugal said:

isn't her Ulma as a mage healer ?

Slight maybe but Ulma's quite a bit different whilst Shadar has the matching hair, Ulma's more a potion healer, and Shadar looks a bit more 'destructive' so I do rather optimistically think it does look like the RTL app as-yet-unused character updated, which is kind of exciting, it also maybe counters the theory that this deck is because an expansion got dropped- it's the newer art style, so surely...

https://descent2e.fandom.com/wiki/Ulma_Grimstone

We can wait patiently but with a little more optimism finally! Expansion slowly in the works? Next h&m set too? A big box with new and classic heroes together even?

These factors together do hint at something, maybe not a definite, could still be a cancelled something, but recent, so there may be hope it remains upcoming, after all I've been working on fan stuff for some time but it's not quite done yet, maybe FFG are working on stuff but it's not quite done yet, it's slow cooking...

Late spot: the crown, it's got to be Shadar, everyone say yaaaay

Whoever it's supposed to be, it's clearly the "elementalist".

14 hours ago, Zaltyre said:

Whoever it's supposed to be, it's clearly the "elementalist".

Ooh, good spot, we were all thinking about the 'who' rather than the 'what', even with that massive clue drop right next to her - the huge mage class elementalist card I managed not to blink an eyelid at, so distracted was I by the excitement of possibly new character art actually IN a Descent expansion!

I'm thinking is 'The Character Currently Known As Shadar' fire and earth (as the new art looks most like the two and from rune golems etc rune suggests more earthy) and 'The Character Currently Known As Tenzi' air and water (which again possibly suit most) - look at the hands: four hands, four elemental powers?....

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2019/2/11/lost-legends/

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1667128/unreleased-heros

Also (these could maybe although a bit of a push perhaps be element-linked in a new thematic angle)

Brother Glyr - Healer (Well of Darkness)
Mad Carthos - Mage (First edition core game!!!)
Red Scorpion - Scout (First edition core game!!!)
Varikas the Dead - Warrior (First edition core game!!!)

(First edition core game!!! = Lost legends???? Nice one FFG )

so would be a balanced set or part of a set (not sure what the hero balance is currently, not counted how many of each type)

Warning possible minor (but not too major) art-based guesswork/ detective work spoilers:

Khanokat Oul - Healer? (by process of elimination then potion bottles (I think) confirmed it)

Ruen The Living - Warrior?

Shadar Runearmor - Mage (almost certainly!)

Tenzi Of The Path - Scout? (image and 'of the path' suggests this), interestingly she shares some similarity clothing appearance wise to the storm sorceress (fits air/water) in ROT but these are elves in the lore

So again a balanced set?

Could even pair up e.g. Varikas the Dead + Ruen the Living both warriors, Shadar's cloak echoes Mad Carthos' as does the green magic hand and belt (scroll

etc)- the two mages.......

The new Mad Carthos art (ROT Genesys sourcebook) also has green magic but it's a different green (a bit Nerekhall portal-like? Not got tiles in front of me to check.) and his sword looks quite like Zyla's 'eldritch blade' sword but in that green, that coming from his hand also echoes the Zyla art.... If so fae are Aenlong linked with arcana magic, plus the fae do have horns/antlers, seeing without eyes (look closely at these two's peepers, although we've also had such eyes on undead etc before)

And it gets more interesting...

Zyla made her return in 'Treaty of Champions'-

which features a demon lord bound by an alliance of ancient heroes (lost legends again? ancestors?)

- the demon lord monster in D2e - which echoes Varikas quite a bit

KhanokatOul is similar looking to Grey Ker

Brother Glyr echoes Krutzbeck somewhat....

so

Treaty of champions / missing heroes / new heroes linked?

Zyla / Mad Carthos / Shadar

Grey Ker / (Red Scorpion by elimination and colour???) / Khanokat Oul (tried googling variants re meanings / translations but no joy, a typo or placeholder name??? - see * )

Krutzbeck / Brother Glyr / (Tenzi of the Path but only by elimination, doesn't quite match, could be something I've missed also new characters may be more than just these four, or they

may have a more significant link to Shadar re hair link, if Tenzi's the other elementalist she too could link to Zyla and Mad Carthos, so perhaps swap these two)

(Jonas The Kind by elimination and title???) / Varikas The Dead / Ruen The Living

There's other links too, I like that Krutzbeck and Brother Glyr seem to have Shadar's hair on upside down! (the beard version!)

(*) Translating https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanukat

on Wikipedia got to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornus

Etymology

Cornus is the ancient Latin word for the Cornelian cherry, Cornus mas. ‘Cornus’ means ‘horn’.[39]

and a bit more digging https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oulu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oulu

Etymology

The city is named after the river Oulujoki, which originates in the lake Oulujärvi. There have been a number of other theories for the origin of the name Oulu. One possible source for the name Oulu is a word in the Sami language meaning 'flood water', but there are other suggestions. At minimum, the structure of the word requires that, if originally given by speakers of a Uralic language, the name must be a derivative. In all likelihood, it also predates Finnish settlement and is thus a loanword from one of the now-extinct Saami languages once spoken in the area.

The most probable theory is that the name derives from the Finnish dialectal word oulu, meaning "floodwater", which is related to e.g. Southern Sami åulo, meaning "melted snow", åulot meaning "thaw" (of unknown ultimate origin). Two other word families have also been speculated to be related. The first is seen in the Northern Savo dialectal word uula and its Sami counterpart oalli, both meaning "river channel". The second is the Uralic root reconstructed as *uwa, meaning "river bed" (reflected as vuo in modern Finnish, also in derivatives such as vuolas "heavy-flowing"). To either of these roots, some Sami variety would have to be assumed having added further derivational suffixes.[8

(Wikipedia)

Other than that I'm stumped on the name Khanokat Oul, but nice creatively if they've thought beyond the typical pool of character names, and it has a nice ring to it) i.e. sounds good), any other thoughts?

Is it happening, am I actually getting really excited for Descent release-wise again, after all if it was a scrapped project why put the character art for Shadar on the front of a new product?

BTW has anyone got Heroes of Terrinoth, now wondering if she (and who else) features in that too - still got to get my copy!

Anyways I'm off to go for a job in Mennara's detective agency having just honed my sleuthing skills, look what you started Zaltyre, clearly I'm making up for missing the obvious, plus once you enter the rabbit hole...., see if you agents of Mennara can spot any logic I've missed...

We are all excited. However, I do not really get what you want to communicate with the last two posts. I get the impression that you think you dug up some hints that point to a new expansion with new heroes in the making. That's great. However, I think that your posts would attract more attention if you would lay out your thoughts and ideas in a clear and concise way.

As Sadgit says, I'm a bit lost too, and on top of this, since English is not my native language, I've missed part of the message, sorry

Yeah , I knew it was a bit of an info dump! I found a lot of connections after work.

I was also trying to work out the name of Khanokat Oul as it's not of my native language (which is a nice touch) hence the Wikipedia bit- I was still just as lost on his name myself after this, although got as far as maybe it translates as something along the lines of 'horn of the river, or flood' which could be 'mouth (perhaps voice) of the river' or similar.

Might come back to try to tidy things up at some point, was just looking at possible connections, for example that Shadar (the new mage), Krutzbeck (a warrior) and Brother Glyr (a healer) look like they could have a family connection from the artwork.

It also hit me that we have three new catfolk illustrations:

Here, which could be a healer: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/8/7/legacy-of-dragonholt/

In the catfolk species section of Realms of Terrinoth, which would fit for the scout

Also in ROT there's a clear catfolk warrior- the Singhara Pridelord

So with Lyssa the mage this could be a set of catfolk

There could ultimately be various sets of four by race, each with the four classes, so we may for example get a gnome warrior

as we have

Okaluk and Rakash - gnome healer

Ravaella Lightfoot - gnome mage

Tomble Burrowell - gnome scout

I was just therefore looking into if there was any logical completion along these lines of what may be the eventual 'complete' set of heroes that was planned from the start, as well as other ways characters might be connected in the lore of the game as the eight characters from the RTL app did seem to make quite a logical set.

I like puzzles so it was quite fun to see if there was this overall logic to the characters.

9 hours ago, Sadgit said:

...if you would lay out your thoughts and ideas in a clear and concise way.

I keep trying to tell my brain much the same thing

I have the chaotic kind of creative's brain!

If there is any new expansion or collection then I hope it is exclusively healers and mages. Warriors and Scouts are over abundant as is

I want Overlord class deck, maybe some new items, and campaign if you ask for.

19 hours ago, bobni said:

If there is any new expansion or collection then I hope it is exclusively healers and mages. Warriors and Scouts are over abundant as is

I think there are hints at a few mages and healers coming soon (or in the next release wave, possibly not soon but sometime) with things pointing to mages and healers with an elemental and natural environment flavour.

That was one of the reasons I was thinking about a theoretical balance- the fact there may be the same number of each in the initial plans for the game and that we are soon to see the next wave of release(s) of them - as I've said above there's a hint at a catfolk healer, and I think we're missing 12 heroes which fall as 4 warriors, 4 scouts, 2 healers and 2 mages. As the new character on the cover of Lost Legends, Shadar we think from the app images, is a mage, this to me is surely a hint of seeing her in the game soon. These new characters were a set of four- my first thought was that there seems to be a healer, warrior and scout too, but another penny has just dropped that may correct this thinking- but I'm not aware of any new art for the other three popping up anywhere yet to further back this theory up.

I'd noted above that from a flavour and artwork angle Tenzi could be an elementalist mage like Shadar and how the art even suggests her being a storm sorceress or similar, so could there be a bit of a crossover, Tenzi could be a bit of a mix of scout and mage, Shadar a mix of mage and warrior perhaps. The d1e character Varikas may now be a mix of warrior (as before) and healer as the 'soul reaper' healer class allows the lifeforce of the defeated to be used as a healing force, it seems quite a good match for Varikas and could explain his surviving as an undead entity if Varikas has been redesigned with that kind of flavour.

The unreleased mages are Mad Carthos and Landrec The Wise, the healers Brother Glyr and Aurim.

My other prediction is new content set in Zanaga, Dunwarr (which could extend into Isheim), Al Kalim and The Aymhelin is still pointed at by some of the subtleties I've found in the heroes both new and old that are potential future releases (the ones from the new art, some of which has appeared in the newer games and /or Realms of Terrinoth, and some aspects of the heroes currently missing from second edition that were in first.) I'm thinking possibly with an elemental link that would fit-

I'd already had that thought but I'm finding more things that seem to back it up further as a possibilty.

I'll leave some of that to share in less bloated chunks than before, but I think this one's quite interesting- on the similarities between Zyla and the new Mad Carthos art, what if Mad Carthos instead has a Dimora link rather than the fae link Zyla has (in Realms of Terrinoth the mage career, elven storm sorceress adversary, Fae adversary and Dimora adversary all link to arcana magic).

Storm sorceress and True Fae are both in the section for The Aymhelin. Dimora are in the the section for The Dunwarr Mountains- and have a pact with its dwarves. It is an area which is a mix of fire and ice, on page 188 we perhaps find the new art for Brother Glyr - which as I've said echoes that of Krutzbeck and Shadar. Al Kalim has djinn that use the arcana magics with an elemental link, and it is in this section of ROT that minor elementals get a mention. The fae and dimora with their Aenlong connection could mean this is Terrinoth's equivalent of aether/ether. Thus there's certainly something pointing to an elemental theme running through the new content, as well as ways it might bring in the missing heroes such as Aurim possibly being from Al Kalim and the elementalist mages.

Just wondering - how long it will be in development phase? And then print and boat...

Since it is an in-house printed POD, it at least won't be on the boat from China. A BGG user somewhere posted the delivery was planned for may 15th in his store. But I can't say whether this is accurate or not.

Just for reference, here is the post: https://boardgamegeek.com/article/31331710#31331710

Imagine Serena the knight! Stupid I know, but you can redirect attack from any adjacent hero to any other adjacent hero this way. And knight's first skill can compensate her low ms

Not so sure it would work

That would need 3 heroes maintain adjacent positions for this only to balance Serena in her over-pledge.

I wish now the next expansion would be Overlord class card, "Ancients powers" for example, with new Overlord class (but since the app is on the move now, and thoses OL cards are useless, i'm dreaming, am I not ?)

I think Serena would be a viable Geomancer. The Geomancer can eat all the stamina you can throw at it (hence why Quellen is an awesome geo) and Serena’s stamina is one of only a few good things about her, the others being her willpower and feat.

Edit: And her low speed makes Ways of Stone much more attractive, since the opportunity cost of using a move action+fatigue is lower than most mages.

why bothering playing the geomancer instead of the conjurer ? He does everything better

47 minutes ago, rugal said:

why bothering playing the geomancer instead of the conjurer ? He does everything better

I do think the Geomancer’s 3xp skills are just really bad versions of the Conjurer’s 3xp skills.

They both can get surges from their token thingies, and they can attack from them too.

That’s about as far as the similarities go I think, since the Conjurer has no comparable skills to Quaking Word (area stun) and Ways Of Stone (teleportation).

I think they’re different enough that they aren’t interchangeable.

11 hours ago, Lightningclaw said:

They both can get surges from their token thingies

No they can't. When a summoned stone performs an attack, the Geomancer cannot use spare surges to recover stamina. It's not him attacking, it's his familiar - just like with the Necromancer's Reanimate...

Also, Geomancer summoned stones can't attack on their own, he has to use an action AND spend stamina to Terracall to allow one of his stones to attack once - during its activation . Which, as it's a familiar, has to occur before or after both of the Geomancer's actions - so you can't even interleave your attacks...

11 hours ago, Lightningclaw said:

... the Conjurer has no comparable skills to Quaking Word (area stun) and Ways Of Stone (teleportation).

Nothing directly equivalent, but Conjurer's Sleight of Mind is a combination of teleportation with area stun so it's vaguely comparable...

11 hours ago, Lightningclaw said:

I think they’re different enough that they aren’t interchangeable.

Yeah, they're not interchangeable - there's no reason ever to play Geomancer over Conjurer 😛

I say this having just finished a campaign where my wife played Quellen Geomancer (on my recommendation, because we'd just got Lair of the Wyrm and I wanted to check out the new classes/characters)... It was painful.