My whole thing is there's a difference between "There's nothing to indicate that a buzz droid will stick forever," and "We know 100% everything about how buzz droids work." The first statement is true, the second one clearly isn't. For example, the "relocate" term hasn't been defined and everyone is just guessing at what it means. I think the best guess at how the mechanics will work is probably right. But I'd be an idiot to say "This is unequivocally how it behaves."

It's just bad epistemology.

4 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Probably because there's nothing indicating that remotes do attach to a ship.

Well, I still think there is more to learn about how this upgrade/mechanic will interact with ships. So I'm just avoiding assumptions.

9 hours ago, Endureil said:

So just to chime in, Buzz droids are a Remote. Remotes are a new type of thing for X wing 2.0 and until we get the rules update for Remotes we are not going to know how they interact with certain things. For example alot of people are speculating that you can just move and then barrel roll off the buzz droids. I am not saying this is wrong, I am saying we dont know. When the remote rules come out and say that you dont pick up and place a remote that is attached to a ship until the ship has finished its entire activation what then? That means your cute move > Barrel roll does not get rid of them. It will take Adv Sensors/Super Reflex to barrel roll and not move over them or possibly depending on rules an out of activation barrel roll from Coordinate or some other out of activation ability.

Just read the card for Yoda's sake! The card itself tells you when to place the droid on the ship that overlaps it, it's immediately after the ship moves through or overlaps it, and the cards always always always override the rules if they are in conflict.

They would have to errata the card upon release to do what you are describing.

30 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

For example, the "relocate" term hasn't been defined and everyone is just guessing at what it means.

...you’re kidding, right?

It means exactly what it says, that you move from point A to point B. The assumption that they used a word other than “move” simply to avoid confusion with an existing mechanic is perfectly reasonable.

I just realized that according to the rules reference, only ships can Move™. It will be interesting to see how the term Relocate™ will interact with the rest of the game rules-wise.

34 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

...you’re kidding, right?

It means exactly what it says, that you move from point A to point B. The assumption that they used a word other than “move” simply to avoid confusion with an existing mechanic is perfectly reasonable.

I think that everyone is making the rather major assumption that the card is printed in English rather than in some unknown language with words that look similar but have completely different meanings.

Anybody else find it weird that in a discussion about what the Buzz Droids are going to do, the only thing some of the respondents are saying is basically "but what if there's a paragraph of text pertaining specifically to the buzz droids, that drastically changes how they function, and for some reason isn't included on the reference card that was designed specifically to tell us what it's functions are?" Like, yeah, I guess it could happen, but if it does you're gonna see tons of players using their remotes wrong. Just sayin...

2 hours ago, SpiderMana said:

...you’re kidding, right?

It means exactly what it says, that you move from point A to point B. The assumption that they used a word other than “move” simply to avoid confusion with an existing mechanic is perfectly reasonable.

Nope, not kidding.

It's almost surely pick something up, place it down somewhere else.

But is there anything else to it? Move has specific rules for overlapping obstacles, overlapping devices, and overlapping ships. There are associated rules for when your ship doesn't overlap an object, but you simply move through it with your template. Are there similar rules for Relocate? Does the template matter if relocating through use of a template? We've got probably a pretty good guess. Relocate probably doesn't care about other objects unless otherwise stated.

However, we know less for sure about remotes and how you relocate than about how strain works. And we know less for sure about strain than we do about stress. As far as I know, there are a few small things we aren't sure about on strain. Does a blue move removes one strain (like stress) or removes all strain (like how an ion move removes all ion tokens)? Does multiple strain reduce multiple defense dice (multiple tractor tokens don't reduce defense dice multiple times), and what happens to the tokens after a multiply-strained ship defends? We've got a pretty good handle on how one strain behaves. But taking a breath before declaring 100% surety on edge cases is wise. There could easily be aspects of these which are different from our guesses based on the previews--which we know have been wrong in the past.

I mean, I was among those pretty strenuously arguing against baseless speculation that purple actions would have some additional properties like being in addition to a normal action. There's literally no reason to think that they would, other than wishful thinking. But like, I tended to phrase it "we've got no reason to think that," and than "we know exactly how purple actions work." I'm totally fine with "we've got no reason to think a buzz droid would stick to a ship which barrel rolls," but that's not the same thing as "it's utterly impossible that we're missing anything." We'll eventually see the rulebook after the Wave III update, and it's certainly possible that there's something in there we're not expecting. I don't think it's likely for there to be anything too major, but still.

From the FFG article:

Quote

...these missiles deploy an aggressive buzz droid swarm, ready to latch onto an enemy ship and tear it apart from the outside.

The Delta-7 Aethersprite moves through the Buzz Droid Swarm, relocating the swarm to its rear guides. As long as they are at range 0, the Delta-7 will suffer one critical damage every time the buzz droids engage!

While not definitive, it's reasonable that the wording could lead one to believe that the buzz droids do stick and that something has to be done to shake them off or destroy them.

2 minutes ago, Scrivner said:

From the FFG article:

While not definitive, it's reasonable that the wording could lead one to believe that the buzz droids do stick and that something has to be done to shake them off or destroy them.

Doesn't match what is written on the Buzz Droid card...

3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

For example, the "relocate" term hasn't been defined and everyone is just guessing at what it means.

Gotcha covered, buddy.

4 hours ago, Scrivner said:

While not definitive, it's reasonable that the wording could lead one to believe that the buzz droids do stick and that something has to be done to shake them off or destroy them.

Isn't that exactly what is described on the Buzz Droid Swarm card? When a ship moves through the buzz droids, they are moved to the front or back of that ship. By placing the droids in front you guarantee that the droids will remain on that ship unless your opponent responds. That means your opponent either takes the crit, not just once but indefinitely, or does one of several options.

1) use an attack on the droids

2) use an action to barrel roll away

3) manuever in such a way that the droids can't be dropped in front of their target

4) be a space tug or sheathipede and do a reverse manuever

Forcing your opponent to do things they normally wouldn't is powerful. In the case of Buzz Droids, getting rid of them can often mean lost actions or even attacks. Controlling who your enemy shoots can win games. They don't even take up your attack on the turn you launch them. For the right price they could be very strong.

1 hour ago, ObiWonka said:

Gotcha covered, buddy.

You... do understand that games use specialized language. Like, "A ship MOVES when it executes a maneuver or otherwise changes position using a template (such as barrel rolling or boosting)." ain't showing up in Websters.

22 hours ago, feltipern1 said:

It doesn't actually specify who relocates the Buzzies, if I recall correctly. I was actually jumping on the forum to post that observation when your post came up. It still applies - who actually controls the placement of the Buzz Droids on the ship that overlaps them?

Why wouldn't the owner of the template place the template? I cannot think of one example where the enemy chooses placement, but it is 0100 and I am a tad tired.

“After an enemy ship overlaps you, relocate...” -Buzz Droid Swarm card.

The Buzz Droids are doing the relocating, so it’s clearly the Separatist player who chooses front/back.

12 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

You... do understand that games use specialized language. Like, "A ship MOVES when it executes a maneuver or otherwise changes position using a template (such as barrel rolling or boosting)." ain't showing up in Websters.

You... do understand that a) that still fits the definition of move: "to pass from one place or position to another", and b) you'd have to assume relocate didn't fit the definition: "to move (a building, company, etc.) to a different location".

So in short yest you can just tag the last ship with Buzz droids and let the venom go to work. There are antidotes, but which ones work are still up for question.

note - Buzz droids are note the only remotes coming out. Any Rules Reference entry added for "Remote" or "Relocate" generic rules (i.e. anything not on the remote 'pilot card' or launching upgrade) needs to allow for both the Buzz Droid and the DRK-1.

I'd be surprised if the remote has a 'sticks by default' rule since that might also apply to the probe droid....which in this case potentially kills the droid.

33 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I'd be surprised if the remote has a 'sticks by default' rule since that might also apply to the probe droid....which in this case potentially kills the droid.

Not to mention the token isn’t made to stick to a ship.

6 hours ago, ObiWonka said:

You... do understand that a) that still fits the definition of move: "to pass from one place or position to another", and b) you'd have to assume relocate didn't fit the definition: "to move (a building, company, etc.) to a different location".

But is that the *rule* for relocate? That's the important thing. I know what it means in real life to relocate, a person relocates from one city to another for school, for their job, for any other reason.

No one on this forum knows what it means for a remote in X-Wing to relocate. We've got some guesses, some adaptation from real world word definitions. But the actual rules? You don't know a thing, and neither do I.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

But is that the *rule* for relocate? That's the important thing. I know what it means in real life to relocate, a person relocates from one city to another for school, for their job, for any other reason.

No one on this forum knows what it means for a remote in X-Wing to relocate. We've got some guesses, some adaptation from real world word definitions. But the actual rules? You don't know a thing, and neither do I.

I know that's what's on the cards is 100% functional and anything else requires speculation. It makes sense to take things at face value instead of making wild assumptions about things that don't need to exist to make the game playable as-is.

4 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

But is that the *rule* for relocate? That's the important thing. I know what it means in real life to relocate, a person relocates from one city to another for school, for their job, for any other reason.

No one on this forum knows what it means for a remote in X-Wing to relocate. We've got some guesses, some adaptation from real world word definitions. But the actual rules? You don't know a thing, and neither do I.

Actually, I know exactly what it means for the remote that is “Buzz Droid Swarm” to relocate, because it says it right on the card. In English, the only language I’ve ever known.

Could there be more rules concerning relocation? Certainly! Do there need to be, based on what we’ve seen so far? Absolutely not!

Stop beating the poor horse-corpse, geez.

14 hours ago, ObiWonka said:

I know that's what's on the cards is 100% functional and anything else requires speculation. It makes sense to take things at face value instead of making wild assumptions about things that don't need to exist to make the game playable as-is.

This is the crux of the argument as I see it. We only know about the 2 cards shown to us through the preview article. Some people think the only thing that makes sense is to go with what we have before us and only that. It's a valid opinion. Other people think it only makes sense that it sticks due to the movie and the flavor text of the article. It wouldn't be the first time that FFG showed only a bit of info and when the product came out that you learn more. This is also a valid opinion.

The only thing to do is wait the 2 weeks until it comes out (or someone from Poland leaks it beforehand). I don't think there is anything more gained by arguing about it. I feel as if everyone has expressed their opinion pretty well. No one is going to change anyone's mind at this point. Is there any use of arguing? Whoever is right in the next 2 weeks can come here and brag about how they were right.

Something no one’s mentioned is that it seems that the trigger for relocating the buzz droids is when an enemy ship moves through or overlaps you and NOT when you move through or overlap an enemy ship (actually buzz droids never move so this can’t happen anyway). That means that they have the potential to cause multiple ships to suffer crits on the turn they’re launched.

3 hours ago, heychadwick said:

Other people think it only makes sense that it sticks due to the movie and the flavor text of the article.

While the Buzz Droid Swarm card doesn't use that word to describe what's happening, they are latching on and sticking to ships that move through them. The card is written in rules speak, but in terms of fluff, latching on is the best description for what's happening in this card. The devs made the droids stick to things without having to explain the word "stick" in the rules reference.

I think part of this misunderstanding is people assuming that the player who moves over the droids picks where they get placed. That is not how they will work. They are remotes, which implies the person who deployed them is remote controlling them. The owner decides where the droids drop, so by dropping them in front, barring your opponent doing something to get rid of them, they stick.

I get that I am making assumptions in these statements, but none of them are outlandish, and all of them are based on how ffg designs games. They aren't going to release a new type of thing for players to control (remotes) then give them reference cards with rules for how they move that are unique to them (drk-1 card vs. BD swarm card) and then put even more rules unique to them in the rules reference (unless people think that probe droids "latch/stick" too). All that will be added to the RR is general info on remotes. It will confirm that they are controlled by their owner, can be target locked and fired upon, can only be deployed as the result of an upgrade, and that any overlap or movement rules will be on their cards.

Let's just stick to what's on the cards and assume the person holding the remote is in control of it, so we can stop arguing over what appears to be the result of the card speaking in game terms rather than flavor text.

Edit: if anyone is curious, the reason the BD swarm has the clause that allows it to be placed behind a ship, there are two. To let the controller have agency to drop from one target into the path of another or for area denial. And to give the target the chance to fly into or near a rock, because the buzz droids can't be placed on rocks. This gives the target the option to scrape off buzz droids without having to explain that in detail as I have done now. Using game terms they beautifully replicated the idea of a cload of droids, latching onto a ship, and giving that ship plenty of ways to get rid of them. It's just up to the pilot to figure out how. The droids don't tell you how to get them off, just how they get on. The rules are written in a way that the most accessible ways to get rid of the droids, that are advantageous to their target, are thematic and all in the hands of that target.