22 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

I'm also calling it that the Buzz Droids stick to you as you move. I don't think you will be able to Barrel Roll off of them, either. Yes, I know RAW from what we know now it's that way, but that doesn't mean that it's going to stay that way. I'm just saying that I don't think it will be that way. Not due to balance or anything like that. I just think it's stupid if they just drifted off because you move.

totally agree. I think once they're stuck, they're stuck. don't get why everyone is assuming they have to stick every turn. but hey, it could work that way too.

39 minutes ago, player3010587 said:

I'm thinking of flying tragedy sim named punishers at Adepticon just to mess with vulture swarm users. It'll be hilarious against the one guy with 5 limited edition Adepticon vultures. Seismic + Concussion is a funny combo: just a massive range proton bomb!

Eh? These won't be legal for play at Adepticon. Thought it was 11 days after release for a premiere event.

double post! I did it!

33 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

They will be somewhat expensive and can only be taken on Vulture Droids and Hyenas. We don't know if the Belbullab has the Missile slot. Separatists will have to make the decision to put them on all of their ships or just a few. If it's on just a few, then those ships are the ones that will get focused on first. These are guys that are 2/2/3 and can only Calculate. It won't be too hard to take them out. If you put them on all of the ships, then that will get expensive. It means you will have one or two fewer ships in your list just for the Buzz Droids. Will it really be worth it? I think it probably won't be worth it in the long run....or....not as horrible as one might think.

I'm also calling it that the Buzz Droids stick to you as you move. I don't think you will be able to Barrel Roll off of them, either. Yes, I know RAW from what we know now it's that way, but that doesn't mean that it's going to stay that way. I'm just saying that I don't think it will be that way. Not due to balance or anything like that. I just think it's stupid if they just drifted off because you move.

Three dot limited. Max three per list.

Makes perfect sense to me from a fluff perspective that a barrel roll can "shake" the buzzers but they can hang on for most normal maneuvers. Reverse moves definitely should shake them off if they are on the front.

Like it or not, it looks like the new factions are turning X-wing into a more gimmicky experience.

23 minutes ago, svelok said:

Also:

The threat range really isn't that big, you guys.

They deploy with 3 straights and banks, not 2s. Agree with your basic point though

Just now, gamblertuba said:

Three dot limited. Max three per list.

Makes perfect sense to me from a fluff perspective that a barrel roll can "shake" the buzzers but they can hang on for most normal maneuvers. Reverse moves definitely should shake them off if they are on the front.

Like it or not, it looks like the new factions are turning X-wing into a more gimmicky experience.

Ah, yes, 3 dots. Thanks.

Well, I can see that a BR might shake them, but I don't think so. I could be wrong, but I don't think that idea is as bad as just moving shakes them off. Why would they fall off if the ship moves? That's just kind of daft.

The new factions are a bit gimmicky, but they are also under-powered. I mean, how many ships have 3 attack dice? V-19 has no shields? Jedi ships need to spend a Force token to Evade? The speed on those Republic ships are pretty bad, too. I see that they need to have synergy and gimmicks if they are ever to compete against later ships. They are supposed to be a bit older and crappier.

10 minutes ago, svelok said:

Also:

The threat range really isn't that big, you guys.

Discord Missiles use the 3 speed template, not the two.

33 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

I'm also calling it that the Buzz Droids stick to you as you move. I don't think you will be able to Barrel Roll off of them, either. Yes, I know RAW from what we know now it's that way, but that doesn't mean that it's going to stay that way. I'm just saying that I don't think it will be that way. Not due to balance or anything like that. I just think it's stupid if they just drifted off because you move.

9 minutes ago, PanchoX1 said:

totally agree. I think once they're stuck, they're stuck. don't get why everyone is assuming they have to stick every turn. but hey, it could work that way too.

Why?

Why are some people being so stubborn about this. It's the same on the reddit thread as well. Just read the ****ing card text people. Then do what it says to do, and only what it says to do.

Where is this assumption that the paragraphs of text on the card aren't the full rules coming from? Where do you think this clarification that the template will 'stick' to the ship will be written? Why wouldn't it just be written that way on the card if that was the intention?

After a ship or its movement template overlaps the Buzz Droid template, the other player places the BD template in either the front or rear guides of the ship.

That's it. Those are the only rules that talk about when to move the BD template.

The Probe Droid card has specific rules for how to move the template about. This implies remotes as a whole and Buzz Droids as a subset of that are not capable of moving by themselves, and will not get movement rules in the RR. When they are on the board, their default behaviour is to act like any other template - they are simply kept in place on the board.

The BD card does not say the BD template is again placed in the front or rear guides after a ship moves. It does not say the BD template is now 'attached' to the ship in question.

It just says the player who controls the BD template places it in the front or rear guides of any enemy ship that overlaps it.

The obvious consequence of this is that if the BD template is in front of a ship, any normal maneuver except for a reverse or stop will overlap it again.

That is where you get your thematic "the Buzz Droid is on the ship" mechanic. It's a really smart way of doing it too.

If you're having trouble with the barrel roll, just imagine a sudden, really fast spin that flings them off.

1 minute ago, evcameron said:

They deploy with 3 straights and banks, not 2s. Agree with your basic point though

good thing I never learned how to read

2 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

Why?

Why are some people being so stubborn about this. It's the same on the reddit thread as well. Just read the ****ing card text people. Then do what it says to do, and only what it says to do.

Where is this assumption that the paragraphs of text on the card aren't the full rules coming from? Where do you think this clarification that the template will 'stick' to the ship will be written? Why wouldn't it just be written that way on the card if that was the intention?

After a ship or its movement template overlaps the Buzz Droid template, the other player places the BD template in either the front or rear guides of the ship.

That's it. Those are the only rules that talk about when to move the BD template.

The Probe Droid card has specific rules for how to move the template about. This implies remotes as a whole and Buzz Droids as a subset of that are not capable of moving by themselves, and will not get movement rules in the RR. When they are on the board, their default behaviour is to act like any other template - they are simply kept in place on the board.

The BD card does not say the BD template is again placed in the front or rear guides after a ship moves. It does not say the BD template is now 'attached' to the ship in question.

It just says the player who controls the BD template places it in the front or rear guides of any enemy ship that overlaps it.

The obvious consequence of this is that if the BD template is in front of a ship, any normal maneuver except for a reverse or stop will overlap it again.

That is where you get your thematic "the Buzz Droid is on the ship" mechanic. It's a really smart way of doing it too.

If you're having trouble with the barrel roll, just imagine a sudden, really fast spin that flings them off.

Why? Because in the movie they didn't just fall off because Anakin went fast. They stayed on until they were shot off.

Take the rule at face value? Sorry, but I remember several times when people took preview cards at face value and made bold assertions as to how they would work because they only saw the rules shown and RAW dictated that it was. When the Tie Aggressor came out there were people that insisted that IG-88's ship was also an Aggressor and the two could inter work as they were the same ship. So, the Tie Aggressor could take the same title as IG-88's ship. They engaged in giant flame wars on the FFG forums because "Rules As Written" from what they could see made it so.

These were the same people who said that Darth Vader couldn't take the X1 title because it was only for the Tie Advanced and Darth Vader's pilot card said he had the Tie Advanced X1, which was a different ship due to RAW.

Just because the rules seem to imply it a certain way now doesn't mean it will be that way when it comes out.

1 minute ago, heychadwick said:

Take the rule at face value? Sorry, but I remember several times when people took preview cards at face value and made bold assertions as to how they would work because they only saw the rules shown and RAW dictated that it was. When the Tie Aggressor came out there were people that insisted that IG-88's ship was also an Aggressor and the two could inter work as they were the same ship. So, the Tie Aggressor could take the same title as IG-88's ship. They engaged in giant flame wars on the FFG forums because "Rules As Written" from what they could see made it so.

Your 2 examples are very specific cases of basically the same thing, and most people at the time knew perfectly well that these weren't going to work RAW. In those cases, obviously the TIE aggressor card wasn't going to have somewhere printed on it "cannot take the IG2000 title". So it made sense that it was going to have to be solved by a FAQ or errata.

In this case, if the upgrade was designed to "stick", why wouldn't they have written that on the card? Why would they have written partial rules for how it attaches without mentioning the "sticking", then put that bit in the RR?

Just now, evcameron said:

Your 2 examples are very specific cases of basically the same thing, and most people at the time knew perfectly well that these weren't going to work RAW. In those cases, obviously the TIE aggressor card wasn't going to have somewhere printed on it "cannot take the IG2000 title". So it made sense that it was going to have to be solved by a FAQ or errata.

In this case, if the upgrade was designed to "stick", why wouldn't they have written that on the card? Why would they have written partial rules for how it attaches without mentioning the "sticking", then put that bit in the RR?

I guess we will just have to see. I'm fine if I'm wrong. I just think it will be that they stick. I'm just saying that people sometimes jump to a conclusion based on partial information from FFG leaks.

2 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Why? Because in the movie they didn't just fall off because Anakin went fast. They stayed on until they were shot off.

Which.... what happens here? Sorry, I don't see the problem.

If the droids are on the front guides, then they stay on.

The back guides thing is how they've built the mechanic for getting rid of them. You pass through them, so you pick them up. But you end up pointing at and right next to a rock, which scrapes them off. Thing as, they still get chance to do some damage before being scraped off. This is represented by them getting a turn in the rear guides where their effect triggers, before the scraping off 'completes' next turn with the maneuver. Perhaps it's worth pointing out that, in this context, the only way you can block them going to the front guides is by pretty much guaranteeing going over an obstacle next turn.

Why use front and rear guides and not just say they fall off if you overlap a rock? Well, because it actually gives the player using the Buzz Droids control.

If you want the Buzz Droids to stay stuck to one ship or to force that ship to do something suboptimal to get rid of them, put them in the front.

But what if you don't? What if you want them to do one damage to one ship in one turn, and then drop off an latch onto another ship behind them next turn? Well you can do that, by putting them on the rear guides.

It also means they always do at least one damage if you move through them and don't shoot them off or barrel roll. If they simply fell off when you overlapped a rock, you could pass through them and knock them off by flying through a rock all in one turn before they ever trigger.

9 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Take the rule at face value? Sorry, but I remember several times when people took preview cards at face value and made bold assertions as to how they would work because they only saw the rules shown and RAW dictated that it was. When the Tie Aggressor came out there were people that insisted that IG-88's ship was also an Aggressor and the two could inter work as they were the same ship. So, the Tie Aggressor could take the same title as IG-88's ship. They engaged in giant flame wars on the FFG forums because "Rules As Written" from what they could see made it so.

Lol.

But that's not what's happening here at all, is it?

The two situations are not remotely comparable.

This is not a loophole created by imprecise wording.

3 minutes ago, evcameron said:

In this case, if the upgrade was designed to "stick", why wouldn't they have written that on the card? Why would they have written partial rules for how it attaches without mentioning the "sticking", then put that bit in the RR?

If the upgrade wasn't designed to "stick," why didn't they clarify that when the ship they attached to repositions/executes a maneuver, they stay put?

I'm not assuming anything, one way or the other, until they provide clarity.

As we do not have the rules yet, we know nothing for certain, however that should not stop us from discussing what the most likely mechanic is, and imho, if Buzzers where designed to stick, the "over-complication" with the front or rear guides seems a strange addition, and importantly it would also more likely lend it self to a condition-type mechanic: as conditions per default stay on the pilot until the removal-condition on the card is meet. It therefore seems more likely that "Remotes" operates differently , and independently from ship/pilot on the board i.e. the player has to add them to the front guides if he she intends for them to remain on the enemy ship.

5 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

But that's not what's happening here at all, is it?

The two situations are not remotely comparable.

This is not a loophole created by imprecise wording.

5 minutes ago, kempokid said:

If the upgrade wasn't designed to "stick," why didn't they clarify that when the ship they attached to repositions/executes a maneuver, they stay put?

I'm not assuming anything, one way or the other, until they provide clarity.

All I am saying is that there was one preview article and we have seen two cards about the Buzz Droids. I don't think it would be an extreme chance that there are more rules somewhere that says it sticks on. That's all. I won't engage in dissecting the little bits that they have shown. I've just expressed what I think it will be and am happy to wait a couple weeks (or sooner).

Maybe I'm wrong.

18 minutes ago, kempokid said:

If the upgrade wasn't designed to "stick," why didn't they clarify that when the ship they attached to repositions/executes a maneuver, they stay put?

I'm not assuming anything, one way or the other, until they provide clarity.

They don't need to clarify that it stays put because that's the standard thing all objects do. They don't move unless instructed to.

In any case, as you said we will see.

So I can't make a chain of buzz droids? Common FFG! The shape made me hope for a droid-caterpillar. RIP geliebter DreiDroid!

42 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

Why are some people being so stubborn about this.

well, I can't speak for anyone else but I don't feel I'm being stubborn. I'm just expressing an opinion. the card also doesn't say they don't stick or can be left behind with a simple barrel roll. and yeah, it doesn't have to due to what it does say. I just think that with this new wave we'll get an updated Rules Reference Guide and that will have more fleshed out rules. the way the effects of bombs and mines are in there and not really on the cards. I'm also entirely comfortable to say that everyone with a different opinion may also be right. why is it so unsettling that some others see potential for them working differently? chances are these will be demoed during that live stream next week and we will all know and can go back to anticipating getting these on the table.

The threat range is not that big, and, there's not the « at range 1 » like the bombs.

Also, a quick way to destroy them is to simly shoot them. They have 2 defense, and 1 hull. Normally, a vulture or a blocker can shoot at it with 1 more dice, or the back ships to shoot at it to clear the space for blockers.

I guess 4 points for the discord missile, since it's only 1 charge

1 minute ago, Silver_leader said:

2 defense

Also 3

Also I'd think if I have only 1 ship left I could fly towards an asteroid, such that the buzz droid cannot be placed on my front, leaving me free to ditch them NEXT turn.

1 hour ago, evcameron said:

They deploy with 3 straights and banks, not 2s. Agree with your basic point though

They have more reach than you think, you fire them out at the start of the engagement phase, so after the Vulture's or whatever is carrying them have moved. You have to take into consideration the Vulture's dial and then the 3 straight, and banks for where they could end up. That Vassal pic was assuming they pop out in the system phase with bombs which is incorrect.

1 hour ago, GuacCousteau said:

After a ship or its movement template overlaps the Buzz Droid template, the other player places the BD template in either the front or rear guides of the ship.

That's it. Those are the only rules that talk about when to move the BD template.

The Probe Droid card has specific rules for how to move the template about. This implies remotes as a whole and Buzz Droids as a subset of that are not capable of moving by themselves, and will not get movement rules in the RR. When they are on the board, their default behaviour is to act like any other template - they are simply kept in place on the board.

The BD card does not say the BD template is again placed in the front or rear guides after a ship moves. It does not say the BD template is now 'attached' to the ship in question.

It just says the player who controls the BD template places it in the front or rear guides of any enemy ship that overlaps it.

The obvious consequence of this is that if the BD template is in front of a ship, any normal maneuver except for a reverse or stop will overlap it again.

That is where you get your thematic "the Buzz Droid is on the ship" mechanic. It's a really smart way of doing it too.

If you're having trouble with the barrel roll, just imagine a sudden, really fast spin that flings them off.

It doesn't actually specify who relocates the Buzzies, if I recall correctly. I was actually jumping on the forum to post that observation when your post came up. It still applies - who actually controls the placement of the Buzz Droids on the ship that overlaps them?

1 hour ago, svelok said:

Also:

The threat range really isn't that big, you guys.

Did you mis-label your maneuver template in the diagram or did you only use the 2-speed templates? Discord Missiles use the 3-speed.

7 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

First: How hard is it to jump the Range 2 bracket? That is where these are landing when launched.

Second: They deal their "auto damage" at init 0. Even a couple of /Lns or Bandits should be able to chip through the needed single hit to take this out before it procs.

There is no chipping through though. You either will hit or you won't. 2 reds vs 3 greens is not a guarantee that you will get through in only a few tries.

I think it would have been more thematic if these had two hull but only 1 green dice or 3 hull but no green dice.

2 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

So I really hate them.

I'm glad so much automatic damage got left behind in 1e. These look like massively unfun bull to me. Are there ways to deal with it? Seems like, but we can't be 100% sure of it, due to remotes being new. But even still, these seem far more frustrating than bombs and mines. Like, a mine blows up once and it's done, plus are a lot harder to launch forward.

Eh. We'll see once they hit the table. But I'm not looking forward to it.

Jam and arc dodge are what I see as preventative. But if you run into a mini swarm of three buzz droid carriers jamming one still leaves two left to launch, to attach to front and back.