1 hour ago, heychadwick said:

I guess we will have to see. There is always points to balance things. As it stands now, only fragile ships can carry them. You can only have 3 at the most. It might be pretty easy to focus fire them down if you are terrified of them. There is also the possibility that your own ship will fly through them, especially if you take a lot of Vultures.

I do see lists with just a few ships being terrified of them. Lists with more ships not so much.

Your own ship flying through them means nothing. Read the card again. 3 green dice is nothing to sneeze at and could deny shots for many rounds. I'm of the opinion that points don't balance things, correctly designed mechanics balances things. Relying on points to balance something that is incredibly powerful to the point of being broken is lazy and doesn't bring balance it just makes the thing not worth taking. As they are right now, buzz droids are already very powerful.

If these attach on the front of a ship that doesn't have barrel roll what happens? At a minimum you have effectively denied shots from at least one ship that round. Round two begins these are attached to the front: they have already done a critical. Your opponent doesn't have barrel roll so he runs over them again but this time his wants to get rid of them so he runs right in front of an obstacle, probably out of position at this point. Whoops, you just move them to the back. Opponent doesn't want to shoot at them again. They deal another critical. Round 3 opponent may end up running over that obstacle, has to roll for damage and loses his action on that ship or gains a stress, still out of position. Stopping here, what is the result?

For the cost of one calculate you have done two critical damage, denied shots once, and denied an action or caused a stress, and caused a ship to get out of position and maybe take damage from the obstacle. This may be an extreme example, or it may not, we will see.

Let's say the opponent shoots them on the round they attach. For the cost of 1 calculate you have denied shots from at least one ship. Are there any other abilities in the game that deny the opponent shots on your ships?

Also, we don't know how FFG is planning to handle these in regards to list point values. Maybe if you destroy the buzz swarm you get however many points Discord Missiles are worth, but that adds a whole new complication to a game that was supposed to be simpler so it seems unlikely. I'm guessing FFG maybe hasn't considered this. So your opponent may effectively get nothing from doing damage to the buzz swarm in terms of MOV and actually making progress toward points on a ship.

I'm a bit thick sometimes.

Can someone who thinks that the Buzz droids d on't stick to the ship that overlapped when they BARREL ROLL please explain why they feel like this? Based on the image, they appear to travel with the Aetherprite. Barrel Roll is not even mentioned. Where is this coming from? Why would a BR shake them off?

"Once launched, these missiles deploy an aggressive buzz droid swarm, ready to latch onto an enemy ship and tear it apart from the outside." ---Emphasis mine---

Here's the full quote with the relevant images:

Traditional missiles are certainly a useful tool for making your Vulture droids more deadly, but the Separatist Alliance is far from traditional. Rather than simply firing projectiles at enemies, you could also sow chaos among them by launching some Discord Missiles into the enemy’s flight path. Once launched, these missiles deploy an aggressive buzz droid swarm, ready to latch onto an enemy ship and tear it apart from the outside.

The Delta-7 Aethersprite moves through the Buzz Droid Swarm, relocating the swarm to its rear guides. As long as they are at range 0, the Delta-7 will suffer one critical damage every time the buzz droids engage!

Any enemy ship unfortunate enough to overlap or move through a Buzz Droid Swarm must immediately relocate it by aligning the buzz droids to that ship’s front or rear guides. While this doesn’t have an immediate effect, the buzz droid swarm will soon set to work, causing each enemy ship at range 0 to suffer a critical damage every time it engages. With an initiative of 0, however, the buzz droids are still vulnerable to an attack that could blast them off the ship before they get a chance to do any damage. Even still, they are dangerous enough to draw the enemy’s attention away from the rest of your ships, giving you plenty of opportunity to attack.

4 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

Can someone who thinks that the Buzz droids d on't stick to the ship that overlapped when they BARREL ROLL please explain why they feel like this? Based on the image, they appear to travel with the Aetherprite. Barrel Roll is not even mentioned. Where is this coming from? Why would a BR shake them off?

From what we have so far, the only time the buzz droid swarm gets attached to a ship is when it moves through or overlaps. There is no mechanic stating that it stays in the front or rear guides, only that it is placed there when you move through or overlap.

So after you move through a buzz droid, and it is placed in your front or rear guides, if you barrel roll, we have no reason to believe they should follow. A barrel roll will not cause you to move through or overlap.

20 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

I'm a bit thick sometimes.

Can someone who thinks that the Buzz droids d on't stick to the ship that overlapped when they BARREL ROLL please explain why they feel like this? Based on the image, they appear to travel with the Aetherprite. Barrel Roll is not even mentioned. Where is this coming from? Why would a BR shake them off?

"Once launched, these missiles deploy an aggressive buzz droid swarm, ready to latch onto an enemy ship and tear it apart from the outside." ---Emphasis mine---

Here's the full quote with the relevant images:

Traditional missiles are certainly a useful tool for making your Vulture droids more deadly, but the Separatist Alliance is far from traditional. Rather than simply firing projectiles at enemies, you could also sow chaos among them by launching some Discord Missiles into the enemy’s flight path. Once launched, these missiles deploy an aggressive buzz droid swarm, ready to latch onto an enemy ship and tear it apart from the outside.

The Delta-7 Aethersprite moves through the Buzz Droid Swarm, relocating the swarm to its rear guides. As long as they are at range 0, the Delta-7 will suffer one critical damage every time the buzz droids engage!

The image shows a ship moving through the buzz droid swarm. Moving through is one of the two requirements that allow buzz droids to reposition to the front or back at range 0. Moving through is defined as the template being placed on an object when a ship moves. A barrel roll template is not placed on the buzz droids when a ship barrel rolls thus there is no move through. With a barrel roll the ship's final position will not on top of the buzz droid token, thus there is no overlap. In the picture above, the ship can simply go forward next turn and the buzz droids won't follow because there is no moving through and there will be no overlapping.

2 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

Can someone who thinks that the Buzz droids d on't stick to the ship that overlapped when they BARREL ROLL please explain why they feel like this?

Do what the cards say. Do not do what the cards do not say. The cards do not say keep the Buzz Droid Swarm attached or at range zero to the first ship that moves through or overlaps them. Nothing says that they DO move along with the ship. There is no precedent in the game for moving though or overlapping a device or obstacle and the device or obstacle moving along with the ship doing the moving through or overlapping.

9 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

Any enemy ship unfortunate enough to overlap or move through a Buzz Droid Swarm must immediately relocate it by aligning the buzz droids to that ship’s front or rear guides.  

This only says how the Buzz Droid Swarm can get to range zero and do its work. There is nothing that says the swarm remains at range zero after the ship moves.

The only time the buzz droid relocates is after the ship moves, if it was overlapped.

It is impossible to overlap it with a Barrel Roll. QED.

From what the card says, there is no trigger for the Buzz Droid Swarm to move until and unless an enemy ship moves through or overlaps it.

You overlap it on a maneuver, the other player relocates it to your front guides. You then barrel roll. Did an enemy ship move through or overlap the BDS? No, therefore it does not relocate. There is nothing on this card to indicate otherwise. Text from the article is not in any way rules text, so unless some kind of reference comes out that indicates "latch" or something as a keyword that moves them with the first ship that hits them, they have no other way to move.

If this is the full text of how BSD works, and at this point it is as far as we know, then "an enemy ship moves through or overlaps you" is the only trigger to move it. At this point it's a matter of doing what the card says, and don't do what it doesn't say.

There might even be circumstances where you put the buzz droid swarm in the rear guides to increase the chance of some other ship overlapping them.

Forgive my lack of understanding, but this is how I interpret it:

1. enemy ship moves through/overlaps Buzz Droids
   --overlapping with the movement template (similar to moving through an obstacle) or landing on the Buzz Droid token causes them to attach to the ship.
2. The end.

Once they are attached, a barrel roll, boost, cloak, tractor beam, etc. doesn't shake them off--we don't with full certainty know yet.

Also the crit damage doesn't cause damage under shields, right?

5 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

The only time the buzz droid relocates is after the ship moves, if it was overlapped.

Or moved through. They are two different triggers. Overlapping is at end of movement, moved through is while a ship moves. A ship can move through but not overlap. As is shown in the picture above. Also, a ship can overlap but not have moved through it.

4 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

There might even be circumstances where you put the buzz droid swarm in the rear guides to increase the chance of some other ship overlapping them.

Or dodge arcs with it

3 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

Forgive my lack of understanding, but this is how I interpret it:

1. enemy ship moves through/overlaps Buzz Droids
   --overlapping with the movement template (similar to moving through an obstacle) or landing on the Buzz Droid token causes them to attach to the ship.
2. The end.

Once they are attached, a barrel roll, boost, cloak, tractor beam, etc. doesn't shake them off--we don't with full certainty know yet.

Also the crit damage doesn't cause damage under shields, right?

Where does it say to move them again?

And no the crit damage is just crit damage it takes shields as normal.

3 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

Forgive my lack of understanding, but this is how I interpret it:

1. enemy ship moves through/overlaps Buzz Droids
   --overlapping with the movement template (similar to moving through an obstacle) or landing on the Buzz Droid token causes them to attach to the ship.
2. The end.

Once they are attached, a barrel roll, boost, cloak, tractor beam, etc. doesn't shake them off--we don't with full certainty know yet.

Also the crit damage doesn't cause damage under shields, right?

The word "attach" is not used on either of the cards we have been shown.

6 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

Forgive my lack of understanding, but this is how I interpret it:

1. enemy ship moves through/overlaps Buzz Droids
   --overlapping with the movement template (similar to moving through an obstacle) or landing on the Buzz Droid token causes them to attach to the ship.
2. The end.

Once they are attached, a barrel roll, boost, cloak, tractor beam, etc. doesn't shake them off--we don't with full certainty know yet.

Also the crit damage doesn't cause damage under shields, right?

1. Does thee card say once attached the end? No, the card says a ship has to move through or overlap a buzz droid token in order to reposition.

2. Range 0 is not overlapping. Buzz droid card says after reposition between front/rear guides it is a range 0.

3. If buzz droids are placed in the rear guides like in the picture what happens on the next movement if the ship goes forward 2? You place the template down in front of the ship and move the ship, right? Was the template placed on top of the buzz droids token? No, because they are behind the ship. No "move through". Did the ship end up on top of the buzz droid token? No because it moved forward away from the token. No "overlap". Neither of the two conditions required to relocate the buzz droid token were activated. The buzz droid token doesn't relocate.

1 minute ago, Frimmel said:

The word "attach" is not used on either of the cards we have been shown.

Nor does it say it stays there when the ship moves. We will just have to wait to see what FFG says about it.

2 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Nor does it say it stays there when the ship moves. We will just have to wait to see what FFG says about it.

It does not need to. It only moves when it says it moves.

Or to put it another way why don't bombs and mines drift around the board? Nothing says they don't.

2 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Nor does it say it stays there when the ship moves.

True, it doesn't say it stays there. But it DOES say that a ship has to move through or overlap it in order for it to move. If a ship doesn't move through it or overlap it, it can't move.

1 minute ago, Skitchx said:

True, it doesn't say it stays there. But it DOES say that a ship has to move through or overlap it in order for it to move. If a ship doesn't move through it or overlap it, it can't move.

Yeah. That means if you launch it and it doesn't hit anyone, then it stays there. The only way it moves at that point is if someone overlaps or moves through it. Once someone overlaps and moves through it....it can be another story.

3 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Yeah. That means if you launch it and it doesn't hit anyone, then it stays there. The only way it moves at that point is if someone overlaps or moves through it. Once someone overlaps and moves through it....it can be another story.

Why? Why is it different?

Just now, heychadwick said:

Yeah. That means if you launch it and it doesn't hit anyone, then it stays there. The only way it moves at that point is if someone overlaps or moves through it. Once someone overlaps and moves through it....it can be another story.  

Where does it say that it moves any differently once attached? Where does it instruct anyone to move it other than when a ship moves through or overlaps? I'm genuinely curious how the jump happens from what the card says to how it in any way attaches to a ship, or moves any way other than "relocating."

5 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Nor does it say it stays there when the ship moves. We will just have to wait to see what FFG says about it.

What if they say nothing else, and the card is the only thing that governs how it behaves?

2 minutes ago, Skitchx said:

Why? Why is it different?

Just now, FranquesEnbiens said:

Where does it say that it moves any differently once attached? Where does it instruct anyone to move it other than when a ship moves through or overlaps? I'm genuinely curious how the jump happens from what the card says to how it in any way attaches to a ship, or moves any way other than "relocating."

What if they say nothing else, and the card is the only thing that governs how it behaves?

Proximity Mines and Proton Bombs have rules that aren't on their cards. Why is it such a crazy thought that there might be some extra rules for this thing?

As I stated, I don't think it makes a clear case either way based on what they have. You can say RAW from what little we see, but there can easily be more rules out there. Why do you guys think it's some radical idea that there might be more rules?

3 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

Forgive my lack of understanding, but this is how I interpret it:

1. enemy ship moves through/overlaps Buzz Droids
   --overlapping with the movement template (similar to moving through an obstacle) or landing on the Buzz Droid token causes them to attach to the ship.
2. The end.

Once they are attached, a barrel roll, boost, cloak, tractor beam, etc. doesn't shake them off--we don't with full certainty know yet.

Also the crit damage doesn't cause damage under shields, right?

I get a strong sense of people adding terms to the card in their heads and then defining the ability from there.

The Card:

Lets break down the wording.

Trigger Clause (a): "After an enemy ship moves through or overlaps you,"

So lands on, uses a template to move that is placed over it or possibly has it dropped on them (in the edgish case of it causing an overlap when it is launched)

Effect Clause (a): "relocate to its front or rear guides (you are at range 0 of this ship)"

So if the trigger happens you place the Buzz Droid template in either the front or rear nubs. "Latch on" or similes to the term are not used.

Limiting Statement: "You cannot overlap an object this way."

The area that the Buzz Droid template would occupy after being relocated would have to be completely clear of ships (enemy and friendly), obstacles and likely other remotes.

Trigger Clause (b): "If you cannot be placed at either set of guides,"

If objects are already in positions that would cause overlap in both of the valid relocation positions.

Effect Clause (b): "you and that ship each suffer 1 [hit] damage."

Self explanatory.

There is nothing on the card that says the template is affixed/attached to the ship it is at range 0 of. Barrel Rolls do not move through the same space as the front and rear guides and ships do not end up overlapping any segment of the area in line with their base after one. A ship does not overlap nor move through the space behind it when it is moving forwards.

There could well be more rules. Indeed we don't have any rules for the term relocate yet.

From what we can currently see there is nothing to suggest it moves with the ship it relocates to except by triggering the card text.

"Once launched, these missiles deploy an aggressive buzz droid swarm, ready to latch onto an enemy ship and tear it apart from the outside."
---Emphasis mine---

"Latch" hasn't been defined as far as I know. Forgive me for using a synonym, but the sentiment is the same. They latch onto a ship and just like you might latch a keychain onto a bag, the keychain moves with the bag, no?

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with some of you until we have official word, but I'm open to whatever the rules end up being. For now, I'm leaning towards fluff and that the Buzz Droids stick, attach, latch, fasten, link, affix, hitch on, connect, adhere, etc. once contact is made while moving or otherwise.

Fluff terms from the article are not rules.