Here's a list I've been working on, but I'm not quite happy with it yet and I'm not sure if it's the list or my ability to fly the Reaper that's to blame.

Possible changes would be to drop down to only 4 ships and try to get Vader or Maarek in there, or stripping the reaper and striker to end up with Vermeil+Deathtroopers & Dutchess+Seismic.

Anyone have thoughts on either the list or how to fly it? I know that the Scum & Villainy Aces League ran a couple similar lists that I'll be checking out for ideas...

TIE/ln Fighter - •Seyn Marana - 31
•Seyn Marana - Inferno Four (30)
Marksmanship (1)

TIE Reaper - •Major Vermeil - 55
•Major Vermeil - Veteran of Scarif (49)
Intimidation (3)
Hull Upgrade (3)

TIE/ln Fighter - •Gideon Hask - 31
•Gideon Hask - Inferno Two (30)
Crack Shot (1)

TIE/ln Fighter - •“Scourge” Skutu - 34
•“Scourge” Skutu - Seasoned Veteran (32)
Predator (2)

TIE/sk Striker - •“Duchess” - 48
•“Duchess” - Urbane Ace (42)
Outmaneuver (6)

Total: 199/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

It's been called TIE Salad. The version is Vader with afterburners, vermeil with deathtroopers, countdown, gideon. That is main version been played recently that has done well. Other versions are Sabaac and Wampa instead of Countdown and Gideon. And another version is Maarek Stele with FCS and then you can fit an academy in there for a 5th ship. Quite a few matches with the list in the top 50 invitation just recently uploaded by GoldSquadronPodcast, this one below shows the real power of deathtroopers on Vermeil in the hyperspace meta:

I built my list in a vacuum, before I'd heard about the Vader variant. Thanks for posting the link, I'm not sure if that's one of the several YouTube video's I've got flagged for review, but is definitely helpful to hear that at least someone considers a similar squad competitive.

Is Vader really better than two I4 named TIEs with synergistic abilities? I assume so, but definitely not the way I've flown him in the past.

What about Dutchess vs Countdown? Having the option of Adaptive Ailerons on/off for every turn with Dutchess seems quite powerful, but she's so much more susceptible to going down quite fast. At least Countdown can take some heavy hits.

I think countdown is better in the list than dutchess just because you arent playing with a bid, so dutchess is only dodging other I4 and lower. Countdown and Vermeil are used to just rush in and try to toss 4 dice each, so thats why countdown is nice in the squad. The sabaac/wampa variant gives your opponents tougher decisions. Usually Vermeil is the number 1 target to take out, but with Sabaac and Wampa, they have to actually shoot those ships in order to reduce red dice, which means Vermeil can live longer, and taking potshots at vader with Sabaac and Wampa still active could be costly as well.

Lots of options

A topic close to my heart atm. Would also like to know how to fly it

Taking this to casual night tomorrow. 1st outing after rumination, moving ships about and sim testing.

Maarek Stele + Fire-Control System + Ruthless / "Vizier" / Gideon Hask / Seyn Marana + Marksmanship / "Duchess" /

197. Locally, that almost counts as a bid, otherwise I'd have Predator on Duchess.

Kinda considering Countdown instead, to sponge some attacks and then hope Maarek can make end game. As it is, both Duchess and Maarek give ace options for later in the game but I'm concerned it'll all burn too fast to matter, lol.

With 5 ships, Viz is a solid option in the Reaper. He'll help the rest along no end, enabling focus/evade or focus/lock for the x1. With the 4 ship version, you need Vermeils interference and damage output, I think.

Vader is, of course, head and shoulders above everyone else but it does rather limit the ship spread.

After seeing that match over on GSP, I gave it a go. Unfortunately, I continue to be hopeless flying a Reaper, for some reason. So played around with it, and have the Vader/Sabacc/Countdown/Wampa version. It's really fun to fly, although haven't had that many reps with it (this week's HS trial here in the UK will definitely change that).

Seems like a decent change of pace from just "I'll take a Swarm then" when thinking about HS and Empire...

The Reaper is a tricky beast to leverage. You definitely need a clear idea of what it's purpose is and where it needs to be. Flying it there, and not away on a solo trip to the outer rim, is the next step.

Heartily recommend coming back to it at some point.

7 hours ago, bahourmat said:

After seeing that match over on GSP, I gave it a go. Unfortunately, I continue to be hopeless flying a Reaper, for some reason. So played around with it, and have the Vader/Sabacc/Countdown/Wampa version. It's really fun to fly, although haven't had that many reps with it (this week's HS trial here in the UK will definitely change that).

Seems like a decent change of pace from just "I'll take a Swarm then" when thinking about HS and Empire...

Takes a few games to get a hold of reapers. They are fast. Use the coordinate to slow em down, or self bump.

I’m hoping to try this one soon. I just have to get my third Reaper.

So I ran the Vader/ Vermeil / Countdown / Gideon version after watching videos from the Top 50 Invitational. I’m all in on this list for the HT next month, hopefully I’ll get 4-5 more nights before then (kids) to practice Vader and the Reaper’s maneuvering.

I’m sold on Countdown over Dutchess. Having the striker at I4 along with the reaper allows you to bump with ailerons, then leapfrog and get an action, then do the same with the other, allowing both ships to inch forward just slightly and still get actions every turn.

Learning when to Red Coordinate is still something I need to work on though. As is flying aggressively without getting pulled through the rocks and into a traffic jam.

Deathtroopers is amazing, as people seem to forget the timing window and that they can’t just dial in a blue maneuver by reflex. Whenever you can catch someone off guard you gain an advantage.

I’m still unsure about Gideon VS Wampa. It would be nice to have a blocker, but I think having 3/4 of your list at the same initiative is better.

If you’re interested in this list, there are 4-5 videos on YouTube of high level players running this quite recently. Worth watching for insight.

I like Captain Feroph myself. With just Death Troopers he's solid.

I have that paired with the rest of Black Squadron, because I have a thing for fluffy lists...

Vader: FCS/Afterburners

Feroph: Death Troopers

Mauler Mithel: Swarm Tactics

Wampa

191/200

So I've been flying this variant-

Passive Aggressive

(65) Darth Vader [TIE Advanced x1]
Points: 65

(49) Major Vermeil [TIE Reaper]
(1) Crack Shot
Points: 50

(40) "Howlrunner" [TIE/ln Fighter]
Points: 40

(44) "Pure Sabacc" [TIE/sk Striker]
(1) Crack Shot
Points: 45

Total points: 200

I like it over the Gideon/Countdown version, it gives me a lot of attack potential and usually my opponent has to make some crappy decisions on who they want to attack. Howl is actually the core of the squad, but people are likely to try to get through Vermeil to get at Vader or Sabaac. Each ship is usually passively single or double modded each round, and is awesome once everything starts bumping.

On 3/7/2019 at 12:24 AM, Cuz05 said:

Taking this to casual night tomorrow. 1st outing after rumination, moving ships about and sim testing.

Maarek Stele + Fire-Control System + Ruthless / "Vizier" / Gideon Hask / Seyn Marana + Marksmanship / "Duchess" /

197.

After running this, I can definitely see the appeal of the Vader 4 ship version

1st game was against a beginner with a tricky list, so not a fair test, but the damage output was something to behold. Tanky ARC Norra and Evaan lasted all of 3 rounds of fire. Seyn activating Gideon next to a fully modded Maarek and a dancing Duchess is not easy to brush off.

2nd game, against an experienced player with a well practiced FO list gave me heebeegeebees. I just messed everything up with my choices and manoeuvres, then the squishyness of everything compounded my misery. So much depends on getting your approaches right and I got mine all wrong. With Vader/Vermeil, you have more room for error and/or taking suboptimal choices to mitigate your opponents traps.

I still like it a lot but it's going to need much practice. Considering dropping Ruthless off Maarek and giving it to Pure Sabaac in place of Duchess.... The latter is easier to ignore, rather than waste time chasing.

-Darth Vader — TIE Advanced

Sense6

Fire-Control System2

Afterburners6

Total: 79

-“Duchess” — TIE/sk Striker

Swarm Tactics3

Total: 45

-Black Squadron Scout — TIE/sk Striker38

Swarm Tactics3Ship

Total: 41

- Planetary Sentinel — TIE/sk Striker34

Total: 34

199 points

I had 2 games with this hyperspace list (against a 3 t70 list: poe+2 init 5) and felt good:

3 strikers that shoot a init 5 + vader is good. Sense thanks to the striker's ailerons can worth 6 points in the middle game.

I have "realized" that duchess is really easy to move in the right position to grant swarm tactic work quite every turn

The alternative list is to give up to sense and put pure sabacc (with swarm tactics) instead of the black squadron scout. (Total199)

What do you think about it?

I dropped the Deathtroopers off of Vermeil, as many of my opponents were focusing on him first due to the large number of points and low AGI. I think it only factored into two different games before Vermeil was burned down.

Instead that 6 points bought me 3 crackshots on the I4's and a Seismic charge on Countdown. Unfortunately I began to fly Countdown with the intent to drop the bomb, and it encouraged me to make sub-optimal choices, so now I'm thinking of just taking the 3 crackshots and either a 3 point bid (for Vader) or add FCS to Vader for extra punch (which isn't really needed as you can just spend the lock after modding a hit to a crit, then take another lock next turn).

My biggest problem now is figuring out how to fly Vader effectively, while still keeping escape options open. I'm always either too aggressive and letting him get bumped or burned down, or too timid and then realizing that my opponent can move their lower Init ships into his flight path.

33 minutes ago, Mangostrike said:

I dropped the Deathtroopers off of Vermeil, as many of my opponents were focusing on him first due to the large number of points and low AGI. I think it only factored into two different games before Vermeil was burned down.

Instead that 6 points bought me 3 crackshots on the I4's and a Seismic charge on Countdown. Unfortunately I began to fly Countdown with the intent to drop the bomb, and it encouraged me to make sub-optimal choices, so now I'm thinking of just taking the 3 crackshots and either a 3 point bid (for Vader) or add FCS to Vader for extra punch (which isn't really needed as you can just spend the lock after modding a hit to a crit, then take another lock next turn).

My biggest problem now is figuring out how to fly Vader effectively, while still keeping escape options open. I'm always either too aggressive and letting him get bumped or burned down, or too timid and then realizing that my opponent can move their lower Init ships into his flight path.

I ended up dropping deathtroopers and went three cracks and seismics also. My batrep is in Battle Reports section if ya want to check it out.

I didnt drop a single seismic until my 6th game. I would probably just get rid of them for a bid or fcs.

Keep vader in the back and dont rush him into combat unless you need to pskill a ywing or something. And make sure he always has an "out" aka a 3+ speed maneuver to get outta town. He can 3 turn away from action, setup a lock, then tallon roll back in to attack.

He is your win condition in every match. Let your 3 i4s do the early dirty work, then bring Vader in for the cleanup. In a triple t70 matchup vader got 3 attacks all game. One to erase Neins shields. One to kill Nein. And one to kill Poe. He didnt get his first attack until like 35 minutes were left in the game, cause Poe was chasing him down, so he just setup a lock on Nein, and I had the i4s threaten Poe to run away while vader turned in and took care of Nein in two rounds.

In a Poe triple Awing match he also only got three attacks, I think, maybe 4. He did 1 shield to talli. Killed Bastian. Nothing to Lulo. Then killed Lulo. After that I was up on points with a few minutes left and vader ran.

Vader doesnt need to attack every round. Just make his attacks count.

the List I was posting wasn’t hyperspace, so I’ll post it elsewhere.

8 hours ago, Mangostrike said:

My biggest problem now is figuring out how to fly Vader effectively, while still keeping escape options open. I'm always either too aggressive and letting him get bumped or burned down, or too timid and then realizing that my opponent can move their lower Init ships into his flight path.

Use Hate on Vader to keep him tanked up with Force tokens. While I would kill for a Purple Evade on him, he's pretty tanky with just a stack of Force tokens that replenish if you actually put damage on him. Use your Reaper to Coordinate to Vader so he can Focus/Lock before his activation so you can K-turn/ T-Roll and still have full mods or Barrel Roll + Focus/Lock to avoid bumps.

It's a nice list. A local player uses Vader/Meeko/Seyn/Feroph and it's pretty nasty. Don't underestimate the value of Meeko's defensive rerolls.

I think Duchess has some advantages over Countdown or Sabbac even if you're not taking a bid or facing I6 pilots - whether you're using her ability reactively or not, you get a hugely flexible dial - even just being able to stall her ailerons and pull a speed 1 turn with no pre-move can be game-winning, and that 2 points saved goes a long way to buying her elusive, which is great for a regularly looping and turning TIE/sk.

I am yet to be impressed with vader... I am trying him again tonight with hate, fcs and afterburners. It really bums me out how again he was wave 1 and so will not get any updates and suffers from bad design. Ie missing out on the purple evade etc..

3 hours ago, william1134 said:

I am yet to be impressed with vader... I am trying him again tonight with hate, fcs and afterburners. It really bums me out how again he was wave 1 and so will not get any updates and suffers from bad design. Ie missing out on the purple evade etc..

Vader is becoming my favorite ship in the game. He is one of the most consistent hard hitting ships in the game. It's full mod shots all the time pushing crits through. He is a bit weird in that you definitely cant joust with him, and without a natural boost, its hard to properly flank, so he sits in this inbetween area of jouster, flanker. But once you get his range down and how to fly him, he just wrecks things. I fly him with only afterburners and he is a monster for me.