Pivot Wing & Rotate 180 after bumping (while using Leia)

By ahdaniels76, in X-Wing Rules Questions

I was using Fly Casual. I trigger Leia's ability to reduce red moves to white. I then had a U-Wing touching an opponent ship and dialed in a white 0. No problem. Then I pivot 180 and Fly Casual tells me I've crashed into another ship and cannot take an action. That made me think -- is there any sort of official ruling on pivot wing while touching another base? With Leia's ability, it matters because of the action loss, and I imagine with a lot of U-Wings and Leia out there, this might come up a lot.

The problem is, the U-Wing's rotation is currently an ill-defined process in the game. It exists in the gray area of ship movement: it's not a maneuver (but does happen after one), and it's not an action (so it can't "fail" in the traditional sense). For that matter, it's not a move in the traditional sense, since the ship isn't altering its position; just its facing.

Given the ruling for full-stop maneuvers, though, it seems clear that the ship should be allowed to land properly, and perform actions as normal. The ship always fully executes, and does not overlap ships. Assuming Leia is there to mitigate the stress, there's no reason why the action should be prevented.

Card_Upgrade_107b.png

Technically you only lose your action step when you overlap, not end at range 0. Performing a white 0-stop maneuver, even with a 180° spin, should always allow your action (not counting spinning in a rock). Page 15 of the Rules Reference under Range specifically says this:

" ◊ Although rare, it is possible for a ship to move in such a way that it is at range 0 of another ship (in physical contact with it) without having overlapped it. "

There is still reasonable debate concerning what happens if you attempted a 90° spin while someone is at range 0 on the side:

Edited by nitrobenz
Ninja'd by the one I was quoting!
5 minutes ago, emeraldbeacon said:

The problem is, the U-Wing's rotation is currently an ill-defined process in the game. It exists in the gray area of ship movement: it's not a maneuver (but does happen after one), and it's not an action (so it can't "fail" in the traditional sense). For that matter, it's not a move in the traditional sense, since the ship isn't altering its position; just its facing.

Given the ruling for full-stop maneuvers, though, it seems clear that the ship should be allowed to land properly, and perform actions as normal. The ship always fully executes, and does not overlap ships. Assuming Leia is there to mitigate the stress, there's no reason why the action should be prevented.

Card_Upgrade_107b.png

Nubs depending on the degree of rotation chosen.

Long answer short, we have no idea. You can make a case how to resolve this a dozen different ways, but FFG has not officially chimed in yet.

16 minutes ago, shaunmerritt said:

Long answer short, we have no idea. You can make a case how to resolve this a dozen different ways, but FFG has not officially chimed in yet.

Pretty much this. I, myself, can think of various ways to rule it, assuming Leia has changed your red maneuver into a white one, while at Range 0 of an enemy ship, but this is how I see it best:

  1. The full stop maneuver always clears , per rules definition.
  2. Then you may attempt to rotate . If you attempt to rotate 90 degrees but cannot clear enemy ships because of nubs, you may rotate 180, or return to your original facing.
    1. Alternately, a "failed" rotate-90 could conceivably require either a rotate-180 or staying at the same-facing, depending on your TO.
  3. Finally, you may situationally perform an action (If you have overlapped an asteroid, you skip your perform action step. Also, you cannot normally perform actions while stressed.)

If you attempt to rotate 90 degrees and you bump because of nubs, the ability fails and the ship is returned to its original position.

This is because of the once per opportunity rule. You can only resolve the pivot wing ability once per maneuver. To resolve the ability, you choose one, either 180 or 90 degrees. Then you reposition the ship according to the choice you made, and if that choice doesn't work, you don't get to resolve the ability. You don't get to go back and try to resolve the ability again in a different way.

If you think that you don't have to choose 90 or 180 degrees before the ship and can just spin the ship freely until you find a position that fits, imagine if that logic was applied to something like Emon Azameen, and players could place all 3 templates down before deciding which one they wanted to commit to. Or BB-8/supernatural players could do a barrel roll if they failed a boost. If an ability gives you a choice, you have to commit to one of those choices before you start moving ships and templates around. The only exceptions are explicitly spelled out in the rules reference such as locks, coordinates and jam.

Replying to the OP, it sounds like Fly Casual has not implemented a way to tell the difference between range 0 and overlapping, which are specifically differentiated in the rules reference. It's just a bug/developer oversight.

2 hours ago, Tvboy said:

If you think that you don't have to choose 90 or 180 degrees before the ship and can just spin the ship freely until you find a position that fits, imagine if that logic was applied to something like Emon Azameen, and players could place all 3 templates down before deciding which one they wanted to commit to. Or BB-8/supernatural players could do a barrel roll if they failed a boost. If an ability gives you a choice, you have to commit to one of those choices before you start moving ships and templates around. The only exceptions are explicitly spelled out in the rules reference such as locks, coordinates and jam.     

Just as a counter-example to this, for Barrel Rolling, you declare left or right (and forward or backward, in the case of StarVipers), but then you have your choice of final position: forward, backward, or center. You can check all three before finalizing your decision.

I'm not saying that your argument is WRONG, persay, and I generally agree with it... but the specifics of the situation are a still a little gray. Plus, there's the question of whether the pivot wing ability can technically "fail," as it's neither a maneuver nor an action... just another reason why we need a ruling on it. :)

7 hours ago, emeraldbeacon said:

Just as a counter-example to this, for Barrel Rolling, you declare left or right (and forward or backward, in the case of StarVipers), but then you have your choice of final position: forward, backward, or center. You can check all three before finalizing your decision.

I'm not saying that your argument is WRONG, persay, and I generally agree with it... but the specifics of the situation are a still a little gray. Plus, there's the question of whether the pivot wing ability can technically "fail," as it's neither a maneuver nor an action... just another reason why we need a ruling on it. :)

That’s a great example, and it actually makes me wonder if we’ve all been doing barrel rolls wrong. Why do we get to waffle on barrel rolls and talon rolls but not on things like Echo or Emon? The rules reference doesn’t differentiate between placing a template and placing a ship. I suppose if you pick up the ship and place it on the other end of the template, you’ve moved past the step of choosing a template and direction to use, but most people treat it as final as soon as you place the template next to the ship.