2 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

And where are you getting this “formula”? And what’s the original source for those stats?

They were unofficial sorry, I assumed the link was a copy of the official stats... official RCR stats for cr90 have 200 shield points and 300 hull points

=> the yz-900's defense should be 1/1/1/1 and 240/300*50=40 htt it's just linear proportionality, the 240 is the d20 hull points of the white fang/yz-900, 300 is the official hull point of rcr cr-90, the 50 it the htt of the cr-90. Have updated the crafting post to match.

The cr90 was designed for multiple roles and has different configurations to match, one of those is as a military ship of the line, it's a legitimate capship.

The yz's were designed to be CONVERTED to paramilitary not military vessels, with the paramilitary conversion it would be comparable to a paramilitary vessel like the ir-3f (analogous to a real world coast guard cutter).

The c70 charger retrofit is a redesign/re-engineering of the consular diplomatic vessel, read about it on wookieepedia, to give you an idea of the scope of the re-engineering the ship got 23.55 meters LONGER (from 115 m to 138.55 m) with the retrofit. A c70 retrofitted consular is a legitimate capital ship as in a ship of the line like one of the configurations of the cr90.

1 hour ago, EliasWindrider said:

The cr90 was designed for multiple roles and has different configurations to match, one of those is as a military ship of the line, it's a legitimate capship.

It's a "legitimate capship" much as the IRL littoral combat ship is a "ship of the line" which is to say, not at all. Corvettes are not ships of the line no matter how FFG placed a section header.

4 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

It's a "legitimate capship" much as the IRL littoral combat ship is a "ship of the line" which is to say, not at all. Corvettes are not ships of the line no matter how FFG placed a section header.

Not in real life but in star wars lore they are.

3 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

Not in real life but in star wars lore they are.

What star wars lore are you using? Last I heard, they were picket vessels. Ships of the line are the big ships like star destroyers and mon cal cruisers.

3 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

What star wars lore are you using? Last I heard, they were picket vessels. Ships of the line are the big ships like star destroyers and mon cal cruisers.

Picket is part of the line, point is capship designed for fleet engagements

1 minute ago, EliasWindrider said:

Picket is part of the line

A picket line is distinct from a battle line. The so-called "ships of the line" occupied the latter.

2 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

A picket line is distinct from a battle line. The so-called "ships of the line" occupied the latter.

Toe-may-toe toe-mah-toe

Just now, EliasWindrider said:

Toe-may-toe toe-mah-toe

Since FFG has never addressed this, I'd suggest going back to WEG for discussion of ships of the line/cruisers, escorts, and pickets.

3 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

Since FFG has never addressed this, I'd suggest going back to WEG for discussion of ships of the line/cruisers, escorts, and pickets.

Which book?

6 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

Which book?

It was either the Rebel Sourcebook or the Imperial Sourcebook (but i'm pretty sure it was the former). I'm away from books right now.

18 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

They were unofficial sorry, I assumed the link was a copy of the official stats... official RCR stats for cr90 have 200 shield points and 300 hull points

=> the yz-900's defense should be 1/1/1/1 and 240/300*50=40 htt it's just linear proportionality, the 240 is the d20 hull points of the white fang/yz-900, 300 is the official hull point of rcr cr-90, the 50 it the htt of the cr-90. Have updated the crafting post to match.

The cr90 was designed for multiple roles and has different configurations to match, one of those is as a military ship of the line, it's a legitimate capship.

The yz's were designed to be CONVERTED to paramilitary not military vessels, with the paramilitary conversion it would be comparable to a paramilitary vessel like the ir-3f (analogous to a real world coast guard cutter).

The c70 charger retrofit is a redesign/re-engineering of the consular diplomatic vessel, read about it on wookieepedia, to give you an idea of the scope of the re-engineering the ship got 23.55 meters LONGER (from 115 m to 138.55 m) with the retrofit. A c70 retrofitted consular is a legitimate capital ship as in a ship of the line like one of the configurations of the cr90.

Your formula is still way off. First, If you look at the Correllian Gunship, in Strships of the Galaxy, it has 460 Hull points, compared to the CR-90's 300, yet its FFG stats only give it a hull trauma threshold of 55 , only five more than the CR90's hull Trauma threshold, even though their differences in hull points was 160 . The YZ-900 and YZ-775 both had Hull points significantly closer to the CR-90 than the Correllian Gunship had. The difference betwen the CR-90 and YZ-900 was only 60 Hull Points, and the difference between the YZ-900 and YZ-775 was only 30 . So, at most , there should only be a 2-3 point difference between the CR-90 and the YZ-900 and at most a five point difference between the CR-90 and YZ-775, not a ten to fifteen point difference. The differences are negligible compared to the differences in hull points between the CR-90 and Correllian Gunship. This is reflected in Bastion's stats for both the YZ-900 and YZ-775. FFG didn't stat these ships with any regard to what came before. They pretty much played it fast and loose and made them up whole cloth. Their YZ-775 is a prime example of this with too much cargo space and no passenger space, when it should have space enough for 14 passengers. Bastion's stats for the YZ-775 and YZ-900 are much more accurate to the original source material than FFG's stats for the YZ-775.

16 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

A picket line is distinct from a battle line. The so-called "ships of the line" occupied the latter.

16 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

Toe-may-toe toe-mah-toe

As @HappyDaze said, the CR-90 is not a "Ship of the Line", and a picket line is not the same thing as a battle line. A picket line is a patrol line. simply designed to keep a certain area secure from enemies. That is far different from a naval line of battle . A Ship of the Line is a battleship . The CR-90 is good for picket duty, not a full-on line of battle. It's simply not large and durable enough for that, nor does it have the firepower. It's fine for skirmishes, and patrol, but not for heavy combat against a Star Destroyer or other Dreadnaughts.

D20 isn't self consistent between OCR and RCR.

Look at the correllian cruiser on pages 91-92 of starships of the galaxy (which I believe is OCR, just like the yz-900) ... note the description says salon pod, and the picture shows the phantom menace picture which clearly identify it as the consular... it has 480 hull points and DR 20

RCR page 234 has the same ship listed as the "republic cruiser" with hull points 220 and DR 40

Going from OCR to RCR they approximately halved the hull points and doubled the DR

In ffg AoR the consular has 46 htt, armor 5, and sil

Yz-900 has 240 hull points and DR 15.

RCR YT-1300 has hull points 120 and DR 20, note that the DR is higher than the yz-900 which is how we know the yz-900 is ocr.

Because of size etc. the consular is closer to the yz-900 than the cr90.

So using ratios (not the best thing to do, interpolating is better) 240 hull points for the yz-900/480 hull points for the corellian cruiser * 46 htt for the consular would give you 23 htt for the yz-900, which is obviously bogus... so instead we'll interpolated between the yz-775 and the consular.

YZ-775 has 210 hull points and 34 htt so..

(240-210)/(480-210)*(46-34)+34=35.33333... htt for the yz-900

@Tramp Graphics I accept your surrender.

the base htt for a sil 5 transport under the nubian design Collective's whole vehicle crafting hand book is 35, I'll remove the reinforced frame attachment from the stats on the previous page, to reflect this.

Not happening. First off, Starships of the Galaxy specifically stated that they overengineered the hull and armor, of the Consular Cruiser (referred to as the Corellian Space Cruiser) making it much tougher than other ships of its size in order to better protect diplomats that would be using it. This is explicitly stated on page 91-92. To quote:

Quote

The Corellian Space Cruiser was designed to be durable and sturdy, a safe transport for diplomats and couriers. It was usually more heavily armored than most ships of its size , but retained a high degree of speed and mobility.

Also, recheck your RCRB again. The DR for the Corellian Space Cruiser’s Hull points is still DR 20 , and the YT-1300 only has a DR of 10 . I have my copy of the RCRB right in front of me. The only differences are the number of hull points and shield points, and in the latter case it’s minimal. Not only that but such drastic differences in Hull Points between versions is not universal either, and there is no difference in the Damage Reductions for any of these ships. For example , the Imp II Star Destroyer in SSOtG has 730 Hull Points. The Imperial Star Destroyer in the RCRB has 700. That’s only a difference of 30 Hull points, and the Imp II is an upgrade from the Imp I (which is what appears in the RCRB) with explicitly stronger hull, shields, and armor, so no, they did not halve all Hull points between versions. So, while WotC May have reduced the Hull Points of the Consular Cruiser from one iteration to the next, it was not universal and is likely a result of them feeling that the original stats didn’t match what we saw in TPM. I will be double checking my OCRB as well to look for other ships that are shared between editions.

Thus, the YZ-900’s Hull Points would not be halved between systems, and would in actuality be higher than the Consular Cruiser under RCRB. The same with the YZ-775. Thus, the only ship I see that had its Hull points drastically changed between OCRB and RCRB was the Consular Cruiser. None of the other ships seem to have been altered in any way. As such, both the YZ-775 and YZ-900 should have a Hull Trauma Threshold at least 45 or more , and this is what Bastion gave both ships (45 for the YZ-775 and 50 for the YZ-900). therefore your assertion that his stats are “overpowered” are baseless .

16 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Not happening. First off, Starships of the Galaxy specifically stated that they overengineered the hull and armor, of the Consular Cruiser (referred to as the Corellian Space Cruiser) making it much tougher than other ships of its size in order to better protect diplomats that would be using it. This is explicitly stated on page 91-92. To quote:

Also, recheck your RCRB again. The DR for the Corellian Space Cruiser’s Hull points is still DR 20 , and the YT-1300 only has a DR of 10 . I have my copy of the RCRB right in front of me. The only differences are the number of hull points and shield points, and in the latter case it’s minimal. Not only that but such drastic differences in Hull Points between versions is not universal either, and there is no difference in the Damage Reductions for any of these ships. For example , the Imp II Star Destroyer in SSOtG has 730 Hull Points. The Imperial Star Destroyer in the RCRB has 700. That’s only a difference of 30 Hull points, and the Imp II is an upgrade from the Imp I (which is what appears in the RCRB) with explicitly stronger hull, shields, and armor, so no, they did not halve all Hull points between versions. So, while WotC May have reduced the Hull Points of the Consular Cruiser from one iteration to the next, it was not universal and is likely a result of them feeling that the original stats didn’t match what we saw in TPM. I will be double checking my OCRB as well to look for other ships that are shared between editions.

Thus, the YZ-900’s Hull Points would not be halved between systems, and would in actuality be higher than the Consular Cruiser under RCRB. The same with the YZ-775. Thus, the only ship I see that had its Hull points drastically changed between OCRB and RCRB was the Consular Cruiser. None of the other ships seem to have been altered in any way. As such, both the YZ-775 and YZ-900 should have a Hull Trauma Threshold at least 45 or more , and this is what Bastion gave both ships (45 for the YZ-775 and 50 for the YZ-900). therefore your assertion that his stats are “overpowered” are baseless .

I just emailed you a photo proving it's DR 40, apparently my copy has errata and yours doesn't... (I bought mine many years after you bought yours) you're working from erroneous data. Ergo your error is understandable but you're still just as wrong.

However you have to convert a first edition ship from the first edition, you don't get to assume that it's a second edition ship for the sake of conversion.

BTW page 8 of genosis and the outer rim worlds (an RCR edition book) has the ir-3f 240 hull points and DR 20. It converts to 40 htt and ar 3.

So even if the yz-900 was a RCR edition ship it wouldn't get more than 40 htt and 2 ar. So anyway you slice it you're out of luck/wrong.

So the yz-900 can have 35 htt and ar 4, or 40 htt and ar 2. I think that the first is more sensible given ffg ship conventions.

BTW The truce of bakura d6 source book says the ir-3f has a crew of 3 plus 8 gunners and it can be operated by a skeleton crew of 1. It got changed across editions too.

16 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

I just emailed you a photo proving it's DR 40, apparently my copy has errata and yours doesn't... (I bought mine many years after you bought yours) you're working from erroneous data. Ergo your error is understandable but you're still just as wrong.

However you have to convert a first edition ship from the first edition, you don't get to assume that it's a second edition ship for the sake of conversion.

BTW page 8 of genosis and the outer rim worlds (an RCR edition book) has the ir-3f 240 hull points and DR 20. It converts to 40 htt and ar 3.

So even if the yz-900 was a RCR edition ship it wouldn't get more than 40 htt and 2 ar. So anyway you slice it you're out of luck/wrong.

So the yz-900 can have 35 htt and ar 4, or 40 htt and ar 2. I think that the first is more sensible given ffg ship conventions.

The Hull Points didn't change between systems except for two ships. And neither of them were the YZ-900 or YZ-775. The only official updates to any of these ships between systems were the change from the abstract relative movement to actual squares per turn. (I emailed you a copy). That means officially, the YZ-900 still had 30 more Hull points than the Consular Cruiser under RCR, and the YZ-775 only 10 Hull Points less than the Consular Cruiser. And that means the YZ-775 should have a HTT of 45 and the YZ-900 should have a HTT of at least 47-50. Ergo, Bastion's stats are still more accurate than Dangerous Covenants .

I think an Ithorian Herd Ship should be able to hold enough people for your situation.

14 minutes ago, HeMandolorian said:

I think an Ithorian Herd Ship should be able to hold enough people for your situation.

Those things could hold entire cities of people.

3 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

The Hull Points didn't change between systems except for two ships. And neither of them were the YZ-900 or YZ-775. The only official updates to any of these ships between systems were the change from the abstract relative movement to actual squares per turn. (I emailed you a copy). That means officially, the YZ-900 still had 30 more Hull points than the Consular Cruiser under RCR, and the YZ-775 only 10 Hull Points less than the Consular Cruiser. And that means the YZ-775 should have a HTT of 45 and the YZ-900 should have a HTT of at least 47-50. Ergo, Bastion's stats are still more accurate than Dangerous Covenants .

For the record are you claiming that you went through EVERY rcr edition book and checked to see if every ship in each of them had been previously stated in an ocr book or the gamer magazine, if not your claim of only two ships had their hull points changed is a falsehood. However it's not worth running down, because it doesn't tell us what would have happened to the YZ-775 and yz-900. But since you're claiming to have an inside track on this...

Show me the official RCR version of the yz-900 and YZ-775 otherwise your claim that it didn't change between versions is completely unsupported BS. They weren't even listed at all on the speed table you emailed me so you can't claim it as proof of conversion to RCR.

Moreover you have no way of knowing which version (OCR or RCR, or an average, if either) ffg took as their base for converting the consular, ffg could very well have converted from ocr, which would put the yz-900 at 35 htt. Without an answer from Sam Stewart we can't determine which if any of those things happened conclusively, but the official YZ-775 stats strongly hint at an answer that you won't like.

But here's the thing, the official stats are by definition the most accurate stats by virtue of them being official stats. Even if they don't match what you view as being essential features of their stats in previous games, you're claim that official stats aren't accurate is by definition false.

But even if the y-900 didn't lose hull points between d20 versions, the ir-3f is a much closer analog than the consular having exactly 240 hull points and being ONLY double the length instead of 2.54... times the length and the ir-3f has 40 htt so because it exists, you've got zero basis for claiming more than 40 htt for the yz-900. However the BEST analog is the YZ-775.

Moreover you don't know what "formula" (using the word loosely to include "rules of thumb") the ffg devs used to convert, you're ASSUMING that it is a function of only one variable (hull points), whereas the size of the ship (length in meters), hull points under previous edition, armor under previous edition, DR under this edition were all likely factors and the yz's are incredibly tiny ships FOR being sil 5. Yz-900 is only 54.5 meters, ir-3f is 110 meters, c70 charger consular is 138.55 meters.

The mathematical problem with the ships you chose to use in your examples is that you were extrapolating which is always dangerous/suspect when you should have been interpolating. You should have been choosing ships that bracket the yz-900 on both sides of every relevant dimension, I'll look through ships to find a relevant set.

23 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

But here's the thing, the official stats are by definition the most accurate stats by virtue of them being official stats. Even if they don't match what you view as being essential features of their stats in previous games, you're claim that official stats aren't accurate is by definition false.

Oh, no! The bold is contagious !

This post is me trying to create a list of similar ships that have official ffg stats, so we can bracket the yz-900, a future post or edit of this one will be to find d20 stats.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/YZ-775_medium_transport

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/463/

D20, 52 meters, 210 hull points

FFG 34 htt, 25 sst, AR 4

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Curich-class_shuttle

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/2137/

D6 54 meters

FFG 38 htt, 18 sst, ar 3

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/HT-2200_medium_freighter

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/1480/

D6 54.8 meters

FFG 35 htt, 14 sst, ar 5

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/PB-950_patrol_boat

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/484/

D6 37 meters, warship

FFG 34 htt, 22 sst, ar 4

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Wayfarer-class_medium_transport/Legends

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/442/

D20 82 meters, 160 hull points

FFG 32 htt, 20 sst, ar 4

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/CSS-1_Corellian_Star_Shuttle

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/483/

D20 (OCR) 80 meters, 300 hull points

FFG 30 htt, 22 sst, ar 4

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Space_Master_medium_transport

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/440/

D20 80 meters, 160 hull points

FFG 25 htt, 25 htt, ar 2

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/VCX-100_light_freighter

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/2835/

43.9 meters

FFG 32 htt, 28 sst, ar 3

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/IR-3F-class_light_frigate

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/2570/

D20 110 meters, 240 hull points,

FFG 40 htt, 35 sst, ar 3

All of the above ships are sil 5, some are shorter than the yz-900, some are longer, many of them are cec ships, most are transports, some are warships. Cargo, passengers, and crew also bracket the yz-900. I haven't looked for d20 stats yet but I know from the ir-3f and YZ-775 that hull points and DR is bracketed as well. In other words this is the set of ships that the yz-900 is comparable to.

Now to look for d20 stats for them.

1 hour ago, EliasWindrider said:

For the record are you claiming that you went through EVERY rcr edition book and checked to see if every ship in each of them had been previously stated in an ocr book or the gamer magazine, if not your claim of only two ships had their hull points changed is a falsehood. However it's not worth running down, because it doesn't tell us what would have happened to the YZ-775 and yz-900. But since you're claiming to have an inside track on this...

Show me the official RCR version of the yz-900 and YZ-775 otherwise your claim that it didn't change between versions is completely unsupported BS. They weren't even listed at all on the speed table you emailed me so you can't claim it as proof of conversion to RCR.

Moreover you have no way of knowing which version (OCR or RCR, or an average, if either) ffg took as their base for converting the consular, ffg could very well have converted from ocr, which would put the yz-900 at 35 htt. Without an answer from Sam Stewart we can't determine which if any of those things happened conclusively, but the official YZ-775 stats strongly hint at an answer that you won't like.

But here's the thing, the official stats are by definition the most accurate stats by virtue of them being official stats. Even if they don't match what you view as being essential features of their stats in previous games, you're claim that official stats aren't accurate is by definition false.

But even if the y-900 didn't lose hull points between d20 versions, the ir-3f is a much closer analog than the consular having exactly 240 hull points and being ONLY double the length instead of 2.54... times the length and the ir-3f has 40 htt so because it exists, you've got zero basis for claiming more than 40 htt for the yz-900. However the BEST analog is the YZ-775.

Moreover you don't know what "formula" (using the word loosely to include "rules of thumb") the ffg devs used to convert, you're ASSUMING that it is a function of only one variable (hull points), whereas the size of the ship (length in meters), hull points under previous edition, armor under previous edition, DR under this edition were all likely factors and the yz's are incredibly tiny ships FOR being sil 5. Yz-900 is only 54.5 meters, ir-3f is 110 meters, c70 charger consular is 138.55 meters.

The mathematical problem with the ships you chose to use in your examples is that you were extrapolating which is always dangerous/suspect when you should have been interpolating. You should have been choosing ships that bracket the yz-900 on both sides of every relevant dimension, I'll look through ships to find a relevant set.

First off, the Developers didn’t convert their stats from the previous systems, the cane up with their own stats whole cloth , often completely ignoring what came before. If they had even tried to be accurate to the existing lore, particularly regarding the YZ-775, then they would have given it a passenger capacity of zero . It would have the proper passenger capacity of fourteen . Sam’s “reasoning”? “The turbo lasers take up too much room.” If he lowered the cargo capacity down to 400, like it should, there’d be space for the proper passenger capacity. And, for the record, the Devs themselves have said that they have no real “formula” in how they come up with their stats for anything. As such, I’m not assuming anything. I’m going specifically by what the Developers have actually stated . That is part of the problem with their version of the YZ-775. They didn’t follow the lore and the established facts about the ship’s capabilities, except for the weapons loadout and number of crew. They hamstrung the ship. “Official” or not, it does not match the lore, not merely the old game stats, but the lore. Cargo capacity, passenger capacity, these are technical specifications from lore, not game mechanics.

Not only that, but, by your own example, the IR-3F is gimped as well, given that it too had more Hull points than the Consular Cruiser.

And , as for full RCR stats for the YZ-775 and YZ-900, the original FAQ put out back in 2006 specifically stated that, aside from all ships doubling their DR, the only changes made were how speed and movement was handled, and gave the table I emailed you to convert those over. Everything else remained the same unless specifically published later. Therefore, the stats in SW Gamer #2 are still accurate for RCR with the doubling of DR and new movement stats.

31 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

This post is me trying to create a list of similar ships that have official ffg stats, so we can bracket the yz-900, a future post or edit of this one will be to find d20 stats.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/YZ-775_medium_transport

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/463/

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Curich-class_shuttle

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/2137/

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/HT-2200_medium_freighter

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/1480/

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/PB-950_patrol_boat

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/484/

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Wayfarer-class_medium_transport/Legends

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/442/

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/CSS-1_Corellian_Star_Shuttle

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/483/

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Space_Master_medium_transport

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/440/

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/VCX-100_light_freighter

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/2835/

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/IR-3F-class_light_frigate

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/2570/

Read the technical specs on the YZ-775 from its Wookieepedia page. Note the cargo and passenger capacity.

PASSENGERS

14 [1]

CARGO CAPACITY

400 metric tons[1]

Compare that to its stats in Dangerous Covenants . Cargo capacity of 850, passenger capacity of 0 . That is wrong ! They butchered the YZ-775. Bastion’s stats are more accurate to the original source material. And that is the key. That is why I will stick to his stats for the YZ-900, and why I recommend it’s use. It is far more accurate to the source material and is not the least bit “overpowered”. It matches the stats from the existing lore much more closely. And here’s the real kicker. He also made sure to notate which ships in his site’s Shipyard have “official” FFG stats and further says that people can alter his stats if they feel like it. Most importantly, however is what he says here:

Quote

I have tried my best to research these ships and make them as accurate as possible within the rules set of EotE. I try to make stats only for ships that have sufficient information that i feel comfortable in the accuracy of my stats.

This is why I trust his stats over yours regarding the YZ-775 and YZ-900, or even the stats in Dangerous Covenants . His stats come from extensive research in order to be as accurate as possible. He didn’t just create them whole-cloth without regard to the established lore. He didn’t arbitrarily change the ships’ specs for “reasons”. He didn’t change their specs at all. That is why I trust his ship stats and recommend them to others.

3 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

First off, the Developers didn’t convert their stats from the previous systems, the cane up with their own stats whole cloth , often completely ignoring what came before. If they had even tried to be accurate to the existing lore, particularly regarding the YZ-775, then they would have given it a passenger capacity of zero . It would have the proper passenger capacity of fourteen . Sam’s “reasoning”? “The turbo lasers take up too much room.” If he lowered the cargo capacity down to 400, like it should, there’d be space for the proper passenger capacity. And, for the record, the Devs themselves have said that they have no real “formula” in how they come up with their stats for anything. As such, I’m not assuming anything. I’m going specifically by what the Developers have actually stated . That is part of the problem with their version of the YZ-775. They didn’t follow the lore and the established facts about the ship’s capabilities, except for the weapons loadout and number of crew. They hamstrung the ship. “Official” or not, it does not match the lore, not merely the old game stats, but the lore. Cargo capacity, passenger capacity, these are technical specifications from lore, not game mechanics.

Not only that, but, by your own example, the IR-3F is gimped as well, given that it too had more Hull points than the Consular Cruiser.

Read the technical specs on the YZ-775 from its Wookieepedia page. Note the cargo and passenger capacity.

PASSENGERS

14 [1]

CARGO CAPACITY

400 metric tons[1]

Compare that to its stats in Dangerous Covenants . Cargo capacity of 850, passenger capacity of 0 . That is wrong ! They butchered the YZ-775. Bastion’s stats are more accurate to the original source material. And that is the key. That is why I will stick to his stats for the YZ-900, and why I recommend it’s use. It is far more accurate to the source material and is not the least bit “overpowered”. It matches the stats from the existing lore much more closely. And here’s the real kicker. He also made sure to notate which ships in his site’s Shipyard have “official” FFG stats and further says that people can alter his stats if they feel like it. Most importantly, however is what he says here:

This is why I trust his stats over yours regarding the YZ-775 and YZ-900, or even the stats in Dangerous Covenants . His stats come from extensive research in order to be as accurate as possible. He didn’t just create them whole-cloth without regard to the established lore. He didn’t arbitrarily change the ships’ specs for “reasons”. He didn’t change their specs at all. That is why I trust his ship stats and recommend them to others.

If ffg used OCR corellian cruiser as the basis for the consular you've got no leg to stand on, if they used rcr stats, then the consular might be "overpowered" relative to the ir-3f but it also has double the DR of the ir-3f, so calling the consular overpowered relative to the ir-35 isn't a forgone conclusion. But even if there is a power mismatch between the two ships, then it would be the consular that was mis-statted not the ir-3f, you can tell that by looking at the ffg ships I provided links for... it's got the most htt of any of them.

The accuracy with respect to lore claims may apply to things like passengers weapons and cargo but it doesn't apply to htt, stt, shields, etc, for which there are no stats, which means the author is making up those things whole cloth in your phrasing. Also 1 ton of cargo does not equate to 1 enc, the end is only what is readily accessible in flight and layout impacts that as much or more than volume, also weight does not say anything about the volume of a cargo hold, weight is opposed by thrust. So ships with more thrust but "smaller" cargo holds might have higher tonnage under previous systems.

Whether or not you want to call it a "formula" which I put in scare quotes and even gave a disclaimer that I was using the term loosely, FFG ships generally do follow certain patterns (at least approximately). Ship size (in meters) seems to have heavily influenced ffg's htt and enc, which is a very reasonable thing. Your preferred stats for the yz-900 do not follow all of the same patterns as official ffg ships. And that's the problem with that blogger making up certain stats (for which there is no lore) from whole cloth.

If you want to try to discern those patterns for yourself, I've made it easier for you by providing a list of comparable ships that bracket the yz-900. Based on the bracketing set, the htt of the YZ-775 is pretty close to where it should be.

And you don't have an excuse for not proclaiming your favorite yz-900 stats to be unofficial every time you promote them.

2 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

This post is me trying to create a list of similar ships that have official ffg stats, so we can bracket the yz-900, a future post or edit of this one will be to find d20 stats.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/YZ-775_medium_transport

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/463/

D20, 52 meters, 210 hull points

FFG 34 htt, 25 sst, AR 4

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Curich-class_shuttle

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/2137/

D6 54 meters

FFG 38 htt, 18 sst, ar 3

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/HT-2200_medium_freighter

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/1480/

D6 54.8 meters

FFG 35 htt, 14 sst, ar 5

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/PB-950_patrol_boat

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/484/

D6 37 meters, warship

FFG 34 htt, 22 sst, ar 4

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Wayfarer-class_medium_transport/Legends

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/442/

D20 82 meters, 160 hull points

FFG 32 htt, 20 sst, ar 4

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/CSS-1_Corellian_Star_Shuttle

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/483/

D20 (OCR) 80 meters, 300 hull points

FFG 30 htt, 22 sst, ar 4

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Space_Master_medium_transport

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/440/

D20 80 meters, 160 hull points

FFG 25 htt, 25 htt, ar 2

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/VCX-100_light_freighter

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/2835/

43.9 meters

FFG 32 htt, 28 sst, ar 3

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/IR-3F-class_light_frigate

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/2570/

D20 110 meters, 240 hull points,

FFG 40 htt, 35 sst, ar 3

All of the above ships are sil 5, some are shorter than the yz-900, some are longer, many of them are cec ships, most are transports, some are warships. Cargo, passengers, and crew also bracket the yz-900. I haven't looked for d20 stats yet but I know from the ir-3f and YZ-775 that hull points and DR is bracketed as well. In other words this is the set of ships that the yz-900 is comparable to.

Now to look for d20 stats for them.

@Tramp Graphics

If you look at these htt numbers for pretty similar ships, you'll see that neither the YZ-775 nor the ir-3f got shafted in terms of htt, sst, and ar (ir-3f went as low as reasonable for its ar)

Isn't there a ship attachment in Special Modification which let's you convert Cargo Capacity to Passanger Capacity?

Just trade the encumbarance to seat.

The FFG version is clearly an armed cargo hauler, while the older version (or wiki version Tramp mentioned) is another version for paramilitary transport vessel