54 minutes ago, Rapture said:

"Sorry  -not-sorr  y    ?" Act your ag  e.

As if you could even tell if i'm 5 or 95, but anyhow.

55 minutes ago, Rapture said:

Pretending  that FFG can not come up with    somehting for such a simple situation is stupid .

Thankfully, they've also came up with perfect clear rules of making the 1.0 dials illegal in the tournament environment of 2.0, so, em...

I mean, I'm not even the one making a revolutionary, controversial argument here. You are. It's your burden to prove these dials should really get their way into the regulation, not my burden to defend the rule set already given.

Peace & out.

1 hour ago, Rapture said:

1 hour ago, Ryfterek said:

So, my edge-case request to let me into a tournament with 1.0 components is not working.

Yet, your edge-case request to let you into a tournament with 1.0 components is working.

Did I not, literally in the post that you quoted, set out explicitly why 1.0 bases are incompatible with the gameplay mechanics for 2.0? Did you miss that? The problem with your "edge-case" is that you put just as much time into it as the rest of your argument (meaning an insufficient amount). So, if you are going to assert that they have some kind of equivalency, go ahead an explain how using 1.0 bases and using 1.0 dials present the same issues. The mental gymnastics from you on this one should trump even your previous arguments in this thread. I will wait.

You skipped this. I even put it in bold font so that you would not. You do not get to throw around nonsense and then pretend that you were engaging in a serious, reasonable discussion.

26 minutes ago, Rapture said:

You skipped this. I even put it in bold font so that you would not. You do not get to throw around nonsense and then pretend that you were engaging in a serious, reasonable discussion.

Dude, with all due respect to the users of it, this forum treats with moving around plastic figurines and tossing dice pretending we're recreating some cool spaceship dogfight scenes from 40-something years old movies.

I'm not even fly-by close to pretending to find a discussion with an anonymous fellow enthusiast, about how exactly we should deal with these figurines when trying to win a bit or two of acrylics for a souvenir, serious, actually reasonable or overwhelmingly engaging.

For the bolded part, I don't have any argument, can't you tell? Everyone and their dog reading it must have realised all I had in mind was to ridicule/put in another perspective your point of trying to find a subset of punchounts and a subset of situations in which the old ones could be used among the new ones.

Oh, there's one more thing, the old dials don't have blue maneouvres so they're completely not compatible with the rulebooks. Try to point out they can update the rules to make this work, I'll point out they could find a way to make bases work too!

Mate, once again, I'm not the one trying to throw a wrench down the machine's cogs, you are. I honestly don't need much arguments to defend the facts we face.

1.0 dials are not legal at 2.0 tournament under any rules defined.

Please sir, deal with it finally. I'll buy you a kit or two if you really need one, promise.

Deflecting to very end. At least you are consistent.

I just wanted to hear you admit that you are full of it. You could have admitted it before instead of making me squeeze it out of you for two pages, but I will take what I can get.

With respect to the difference between blue and green, I would ask whether you honestly think that FFG couldn't figure out the wording to make an old green count as a new blue. I guess that I just cracked it: "Green maneuvers on maneuver dials count as blue maneuvers." That was not so hard now was it? But, if I start asking you to be reasonable again instead of saying whatever pops into your head, we would just find ourselves on page four with you, just like you are now, trying to save face by pandering with some weak parting shots as you admit that you were wrong.

On the question of legality, despite the monumental barrier that you are so intent on making it appear to be, that could change with two sentences in the rules update.

2 minutes ago, Rapture said:

I just wanted to hear you admit that you are full of it.

And so is FFG because it's their official rules you beg to disagree with.

Curtain.

5 minutes ago, Rapture said:

I would ask whether you honestly think that FFG couldn't figure out the wording to make an old green count as a new blue

They went with the even simpler and more elegant wording of asking you to shove your old dials down the drawer and ask you to come to tournaments with the new ones, holly molly.

3 minutes ago, Ryfterek said:

Curtain.

Respectfully, this applied well before this moment once they demonstrated that they didn't care what the rules are and were merely trying to browbeat you into agreeing with them that the rules should be changed to what they wanted.

@Rapture 1.0 cardboard (tokens, range ruler and some of the obstacles/devices exempted), inclusive of the dials, are banned from Tournament play per the official tournament regulations. If you have a problem with that take it up with FFG.

3 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

@Rapture 1.0 cardboard (tokens, range ruler and some of the obstacles/devices exempted), inclusive of the dials, are banned from Tournament play per the official tournament regulations. If you have a problem with that take it up with FFG.

As we are all aware. But, are we not discussing that issue on FFG's very own forum relating to the game and in a thread relating to the topic? Do you have a more appropriate venue to recommend for discussing the issue?

4 minutes ago, Rapture said:

As we are all aware. But, are we not discussing that issue on FFG's very own forum relating to the game and in a thread relating to the topic? Do you have a more appropriate venue to recommend for discussing the issue?

I’m a pretty new player. I don’t know what ships dials were in 1.0, and how they differ from those ships in 2.0. I haven’t (yet!) memorised all 50 odd dials in the game. I simply don’t know if some old dial is better, worse or the same as the new dial. It’s not unreasonable for FFG to form a rule to level the playing field for both old and new players - which is what they’ve done.

11 hours ago, Max Teranous said:

I’m a pretty new player. I don’t know what ships dials were in 1.0, and how they differ from those ships in 2.0. I haven’t (yet!) memorised all 50 odd dials in the game. I simply don’t know if some old dial is better, worse or the same as the new dial. It’s not unreasonable for FFG to form a rule to level the playing field for both old and new players - which is what they’ve done.

But how does preventing players from using 1.0 dials that are, with the exception of the difference between the color green and the color blue, identical to their corresponding 2.0 counterparts "level the playing field?"

If your opponent is limited to the same maneuvers with either dial, what disadvantage could you possibly be at if a 1.0 dial was being used for a K-Wing or a TIE Fighter?

@Heimfire - " Do  you have a more appropriate venue to recommend for discussing the  issue?" I will pass on your recommendation. You will notice that the thread where you think that I should discuss this explicitly says that that thread is not for discussions. Just like with the last time there was an issue relating to dial restrictions, the community' discussion played an important part in getting FFG to reconsider. So, to the extent that anyone cares enough to seek a change, a thread on the main page is a fine place to do so.

On 3/7/2019 at 1:18 PM, sirjorj said:

Why? I thought the new dials were one of the biggest improvements. You can now see all the options at once without having to buy the deluxe dials. Why do you prefer looking through your options one at a time?

Seeing all the maneuvers is something I've never personally liked, as I find it makes the dial look unfinished and untidy. I find the old 'Pac-Man' design to be much neater and sleek-looking, and find it all too easy to select the wrong move with the new ones as I am too used to lining up the one I want with the gap in the cardboard - that and the white arrow is less clearly visible.
It's an entirely aesthetic and subjective thing, I know. And it was a bit time consuming to switch every dial over, but the maneuvers are the 2.0 ones so, in game terms, the dials are entirely useable.
First Order ones were a whole other story, of course, since I wanted to emulate the 'flipped down' art rather than just reuse the old Imperial one for them too...

<double post>

44 minutes ago, MalusCalibur said:

Seeing all the maneuvers is something I've never personally liked, as I find it makes the dial look unfinished and untidy. I find the old 'Pac-Man' design to be much neater and sleek-looking, and find it all too easy to select the wrong move with the new ones as I am too used to lining up the one I want with the gap in the cardboard - that and the white arrow is less clearly visible.
It's an entirely aesthetic and subjective thing, I know. And it was a bit time consuming to switch every dial over, but the maneuvers are the 2.0 ones so, in game terms, the dials are entirely useable.
First Order ones were a whole other story, of course, since I wanted to emulate the 'flipped down' art rather than just reuse the old Imperial one for them too...

Fair eough. I attended a second edition launch event then eekend before the game launched and was laughing at how often everyone (especially myself) picked up the dials upside dials upsidedown because ‘slot on top’! After a few games, muscle memory adapts. I was using the upgraded dial kits in first edition just because i liked seeing all my options at a glance. Second edition makes that standard so i am a fan and will probably not get dial upgrades anymore.

thanks for the answer

On 3/5/2019 at 11:17 PM, Tvboy said:

So the people that refused to buy a core set, which is explicitly stated to be a requirement to play 2.0 (hatched maneuver templates), get a pass, but the people that want to run more than 2 k-wings or lambdas or u-wings or shadowcasters or more than 3 gunboats or fang fighters or TIE Aggressors get told no? Doesn’t seem fair.

Yeah! What about those of us insane enough to fly triple- Lambda s?

On 3/7/2019 at 12:53 PM, Rapture said:

Finally, the dials are all available online. Confirming what is or is not on a 2.0 dial takes all of the effort of pulling your cell phone out of your pocket and clicking on your squad builder application.

I've never been to a tournament, but I thought I heard people say that scrolling around on your phone during a game was generally discouraged.

Also, I still don't see dials in the squad builder. How do I access them?

10 hours ago, Rapture said:

If your opponent is limited to the same maneuvers with either dial, what disadvantage could you possibly be at if a 1.0 dial was being used for a K-Wing or a TIE Fighter?

The disadvantage isn't from using those particular dials, but rather from not knowing which dials are allowable. Yes, you could make a list of all allowable and disallowable dials, or you could just tell people to use the dials from the correct game rather than from previous versions. In casual play, do whatever you and your friends can agree to, but in organized play, simple, easily-monitored rules are probably better.

39 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

I've never been to a tournament, but I thought I heard people say that scrolling around on your phone during a game was generally discouraged.

Like most things, context is key. If you tell your opponent that you just need to confirm that a 1.0 dial matches a 2.0 dial, your opponent is highly unlikely to fetch a TO if they are cheating and would have no reason to complain if they are not.

39 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Also, I still don't see dials in the squad builder. How do I access them?

Use LaunchBay. The individual who made and manages it did an excellent job. It is both free and ad free. If you prefer to use the inferior FFG application, then the alternative is opening your phone's web browser and googling the ship name and the word "dial." An even better alternative would be FFG simply listing the 2.0 dials that match their 1.0 counterparts.

39 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

The disadvantage isn't from using those particular dials, but rather from not knowing which dials are allowable. Yes, you could make a list of all allowable and disallowable dials, or you could just tell people to use the dials from the correct game rather than from previous versions. In casual play, do whatever you and your friends can agree to, but in organized play, simple, easily-monitored rules are probably better.

How is that a disadvantage? How does that place one tournament player in a better position than another? Is the argument that a newer player is more likely to fall for the illegal dial trick (which, for the reasons discussed repeatedly, would almost never work)? Don't new players have equal access to the internet and to list building application that can be used to confirm that their opponent's dial has the correct moves?

Most importantly, if fooling new players at tournaments by using improper game components is actually a thing (which it is not), why have we not heard of it happening? This game is loaded with components that can be modified for an advantage.

Besides, wouldn't a list of the 1.0 dials that can be used qualify as simple and easily monitored? And wouldn't such a list put all players, including new players, on notice of which dials can be used with zero room for error (all players are expected to read the rules, after all)?

I do not know why people are going so far out of their way to come up with unlikely scenarios where this would have a negative impact on the game. All of them seem to start with, "What if an opponent is willing to blatantly cheat without any real regard for getting caught?" I agree that, in the case of blatant cheaters who are willing to commit obvious infractions based on the off chance that they may be playing against a new player who does not know better, it would be more just slightly more likely that someone would attempt to use a 1.0 dial with improper moves on it (if they wanted to avoid putting the opponent on notice of a potential dial discrepancy, they would be much better off simply modifying a 2.0 dial). But, if you truly, honestly believe that the rules should limit players in order to account for such a blatant cheater, then you really need to be consistent and argue that acrylic templates, dice (other than the dice application), and acrylic range rulers also need to be barred from tournaments as they introduce equivalent threats of potential cheating.

Simple answer. No. It is illegal to use 1.0 stuff in a tournament. The rest of this is irrelevant.