1 hour ago, Xp45 said:

while you are probably correct regarding a scum/pirate faction and I'm not at all opposed to such an idea, Disney is not at all abandoning the sequels and the timeline they've created there. they've released 3 noves, started several new comic lines,and are looking into creating a TCW style true epic for the era, Disney if anything are doubling down on their timeline

I find it hard to believe that FO and Resistance will not come to Legion. Just from looking at X-wing the game seems strong with 7 unique factions all with a strong identity despite having a lot of similar ships. And I find it hard to believe that if you hate the ST you would not want to kill those characters over and over again. Also we know Disney has forced FFG hand once already in the past so we know whatever they say goes.

2 hours ago, Khobai said:

Subfactions are better because they can enhance the existing factions as well as be played on their own.

And how is adding two completely new factions with a full set of releases easy? Thats very difficult. Probably the most difficult thing you could ask of FFG.

I rather have several factions with no crossover since mercs can cause a crap ton of issues balance wise. Sub-factions have to be balanced across all factions. Which means Scum Bossk may suck, but Empire Bossk may break the game and who knows how CIS Bossk would do!!?!!? The more factions a unit can be put in the more complex the game gets for developers to try and balance everything. I remember from Warmachine that mercs were a useless faction, but other armies used them all expect for their commander to dominate the meta.

Of course I got this all from a guy explaining why crossover units would casue balance nighmares for an online card game and playing Warmachine (which is trash) lol so I don't know how much it would apply to Legion.

....................................Also throw in the fact that FFG is having trouble balancing just 4 factions. Ouch! I mean I still suspect we are getting something at GenCon 2021, but FFG have made it clear they still have no idea what sub-factions are.

1 hour ago, Billion Year Old Carbon said:

I find the sequel trilogy resistance to be a bit lacking as far as a potential Legion faction goes, but I can appreciate the desire for First Order. The Knights of Ren look like they'd be fun to paint. But I'm happy with the existing factions and would rather see scum added.

Going thought the movies, comics, games, park, and books FO and Resistance have a pretty decent roster. Don't see it any worse then Rebels who have entire units that FFG created like the landspeeder and wookies. Throw in the issues of how much Empire and CIS really lean into the Scum faction to fill out a lot of their unit roster and all the factions are about in the same situation.

52 minutes ago, Lochlan said:

They have also directly stated that Mandalorian content is coming to legion, though we have no idea in what capacity.

Baby Yoda objective seems like the easiest way to do it? Moff Gideon for Empire? Or Cara Dune for Rebels................ well at least before she started tweeting lol.

1 hour ago, Lochlan said:

They have also directly stated that Mandalorian content is coming to legion, though we have no idea in what capacity.

operative carl weathers

19 minutes ago, Khobai said:

operative carl weathers

Hey, you'd get no complaint from me.

1 hour ago, Khobai said:

operative carl weathers

This is the way.

I've gone and compiled everything people have said here and this is what we could make out of the FO and Resistance for Legion.

FIRST ORDER

corps units

- FO stormtroopers

- FO snowtroopers

- FO mountain troopers

- Sith troopers (stretch, not much different from regular FO, different tech maybe)

heavy options (add ons)

- FO flametrooper

- Riot Trooper

- heavy trooper.

Special troops

- FO Executioners

- FO relic/purge troopers

- FO jet trooper

- Knights of Ren

-FO Probe droid

Vehicles/heavies

-Treadspeeder

-FO snowspeeder

-FO AT-ST

-UA-TT

-Droid scout walker.

Commanders

-Kylo ren

-Captain Phasma

-Hux

-Commander Pyre

-General Pryde

-FO officer (generic)

Operatives

-Agent Tierny

- Agent Terex

- Captain Cardinal

-Dj

-Axe Tagrin ( these last two a stretch, and would better fit in a pirate type faction, but until thats a thing , these remain on the table)

RESISTANCE

corps units

- Resistance army troopers (helmets)

-Resistance troopers (crait-like)

-Resistance personnel (the mechanics, pilots, pulling double duty)

-Resistance troopers (jungle)

heavy options

- Ovissian gunner, heavy gunner dude

-heavy security droid, (also possibly corps or special).

-Rocket trooper

Special troopers

- Black squadron

- Colossus cell/ Jade squadron

- Inferno squad

Vehicles/Heavies

- Cavalry/Company 77

- personnel speeder

- Jungle X-hopper

- Ski-speeder

- Resistance transport pod?

- Artillery turret (light and heavy)

Commanders

- General Leia

- Poe Dameron (could be like Iden and be an operative too)

- Finn

- Rey whoever (would probably work better as an operative but as the core sets go, lightsaber against lightsaber)

-Resistance army officer (generic)

Operatives

- BB-8/CB-23

- Zorii Bliss

- Rose Tico

- Kaydel Connix

- Kazuda Xiono

- Han? (stretch)

- Chewbacca (still stretch, but maybe less so)

- other Resistance heroes perhaps as squad commanders.

so we need a few more specialized things and we'd be all set, you could easily set these factions apart given their appearances and manpower problems by making their units have a low squad number count, like 4 or 5 for FO, and 3 or 4 for Resistance but have better optimization and have the Resistance lean heavily on their operative pool, while the FO on their commander and special unit pool.

I mean, the problems go beyond just the lack of specials for Resistance. The big problem is most of those lists are just Empire and Rebels, and so the totality when you include the few truly different units is "Empire with a twist" and "Rebels with a twist".

Until that can be solved I still don't see what they really add to the game as full independent factions.

@Xp45 Great list!! A few extra I figure could be in there mostly from the comics, books, and the theme park:

First Order: Think you got it all covered, but I got those operatives you need lol. As for the Final Order, feels like they would go with Gungans and Umbara as a good sub-faction.

Opertives:

• Agent Terex- Really cool character from the Poe comics. An ex-Imperial crime lord that joins the FO and even uses Tarkin's Carrion Spike as his personal ship.

• Commander Malarus- Another FO leader from the Poe comics that takes over after Terex fails to many times. Crazy druggy lol.

• Cardinal- Appears in several books and was in charge of training FO troopers before having a falling out with the FO about Phasma

Resistance: its not really that bad using all the extended universe stuff. Really like the idea of mechanics as a corps since they often said how short handed the Resistance was. **** both Rey and Poe really work as the duel commander/operative unit like Vader/Luke, not sure who I like better............ I think Rey?

Corps:

• Ajan Kloss resistance - they got the jungle looking gear lol from 9.

Heavy/Support:

• Resistance skiff - same concept as the Rebels landspeeder

• V-232 artillery emplacement - Its that not big, go run on it on Battlefront 2 lol.
  
• Turret from Ajan Kloss - smaller version of the 1.4 from Battlefront 2.

Special troopers

• Dross Squadron - Made up of the survivors of Inferno Squadron after the events of battlefront 2. Including Shriv, Zay versio and Dio.

• Black Squadron - Are in 7 & 9 and do a lot of special missions for the Resistance.

• Company 77/First Order Defectors - The group with Janna, may overlap with the orbak riders.

Operatives :

• Vi Moradi - Got her in several books and she runs around Black Spire if you go to the park.

• C-3PO - inversion of R2 operative we got right now.............. or they just give the same one to Resistance? 3PO runs his own droid spy network which they cut most of it out of 7 (except for the droid in Maz's castle)
• Janna
• Rose

8 minutes ago, RyantheFett said:

@Xp45 Great list!! A few extra I figure could be in there mostly from the comics, books, and the theme park:

First Order: Think you got it all covered, but I got those operatives you need lol. As for the Final Order, feels like they would go with Gungans and Umbara as a good sub-faction.

Opertives:

• Agent Terex- Really cool character from the Poe comics. An ex-Imperial crime lord that joins the FO and even uses Tarkin's Carrion Spike as his personal ship.

• Commander Malarus- Another FO leader from the Poe comics that takes over after Terex fails to many times. Crazy druggy lol.

• Cardinal- Appears in several books and was in charge of training FO troopers before having a falling out with the FO about Phasma

Resistance: its not really that bad using all the extended universe stuff. Really like the idea of mechanics as a corps since they often said how short handed the Resistance was. **** both Rey and Poe really work as the duel commander/operative unit like Vader/Luke, not sure who I like better............ I think Rey?

Corps:

• Ajan Kloss resistance - they got the jungle looking gear lol from 9.

Heavy/Support:

• Resistance skiff - same concept as the Rebels landspeeder

• V-232 artillery emplacement - Its that not big, go run on it on Battlefront 2 lol.
  
• Turret from Ajan Kloss - smaller version of the 1.4 from Battlefront 2.

Special troopers

• Dross Squadron - Made up of the survivors of Inferno Squadron after the events of battlefront 2. Including Shriv, Zay versio and Dio.

• Black Squadron - Are in 7 & 9 and do a lot of special missions for the Resistance.

• Company 77/First Order Defectors - The group with Janna, may overlap with the orbak riders.

Operatives :

• Vi Moradi - Got her in several books and she runs around Black Spire if you go to the park.

• C-3PO - inversion of R2 operative we got right now.............. or they just give the same one to Resistance?
• Janna
• Rose

I totally forgot about Rose! how could I? also how could I forget VI when I just read black spire!

that's very interesting intel on the Resistance in TRoS, I dig it, and it adds the other heavy alternative troopers that would be nice as well.

also completely forgot about turrets, I believe the FO have some kind of droideka like turret as well.

6 minutes ago, Xp45 said:

also completely forgot about turrets, I believe the FO have some kind of droideka like turret as well.

Really??????????? Best I found was some more walkers, but I doubt the FO needs some more of that. I need pics if this FO droid turret thing!!!!

I mean do we really need a third AT-RT??????????

All Terrain Patrol Droid (AT-PD)

All Terrain Heavy Scout (AT-HS)

so I got official lore confused with LEGO again, goshdarnit, the droideka turret was a little LEGO build thing the FO would use in shootout sections of the TFA game, it was a manned turret with a small bubble shield and dual repeaters. it's so obscure and unremarkable that I can't find a single picture.

side note, droid walkers would be sick but that FO AT-ST looks hilarious, 5 cannons? dude just awkwardly stands there? it's hilarious.

6 hours ago, Xp45 said:

I've gone and compiled everything people have said here and this is what we could make out of the FO and Resistance for Legion.

FIRST ORDER

corps units

- FO stormtroopers

- FO snowtroopers

- FO mountain troopers

- Sith troopers (stretch, not much different from regular FO, different tech maybe)

heavy options (add ons)

- FO flametrooper

- Riot Trooper

- heavy trooper.

Special troops

- FO Executioners

- FO relic/purge troopers

- FO jet trooper

Vehicles

-Treadspeeder

-FO snowspeeder

-FO AT-ST

-UA-TT

Commanders

-Kylo ren

-Captain Phasma

-Hux

-Commander Pyre

-FO officer (generic)

Operatives

-Agent Tierny

-Dj

-Axe Tagrin ( these last two a stretch, and would better fit in a pirate type faction, but until thats a thing , these remain on the table)

RESISTANCE

corps units

- Resistance army troopers (helmets)

-Resistance troopers (crait-like)

-Resistance personnel (the mechanics, pilots, pulling double duty)

heavy options

- Ovissian gunner, heavy gunner dude

-heavy security droid, (also possibly corps or special).

Special troopers

- *crickets* ( this is where the problems arise)

Vehicles

- Cavalry

- personnel speeder

- Jungle X-hopper

- Ski-speeder

- Resistance transport pod?

Commanders

- General Leia

- Poe Dameron (could be like Iden and be an operative too)

- Finn

- Rey whoever (would probably work better as an operative but as the core sets go, lightsaber against lightsaber)

Operatives

- Kaydel Connix

- Kazuda Xiono

- Snap Wexley

- Han? (stretch)

- Chewbacca (still stretch, but maybe less so)

- other Resistance heroes perhaps as squad commanders.

so we need a few more specialized things for Resistance and we would be looking at a solid roster.

Whilst I am not a fan of the ST, I do like the designs, and think more factions would make the game better.

Why would snoke not be in the game?

What about Maz?

What about Zorii Bliss?

What about General Pryde?

What about BB-8?

Rose Tico? lol

What about the legendary Babu Frick?

7 hours ago, lologrelol said:

Whilst I am not a fan of the ST, I do like the designs, and think more factions would make the game better.

Why would snoke not be in the game?

What about Maz?

What about Zorii Bliss?

What about General Pryde?

What about BB-8?

Rose Tico? lol

What about the legendary Babu Frick?

Yeah I even forgot some characters whoops.

Zorii, BB-8/CB-23, and Rose would make excellent operatives

General pryde as a commander for final order forces.

I wouldn't know what to do with Maz though...

13 hours ago, Xp45 said:

I've gone and compiled everything people have said here and this is what we could make out of the FO and Resistance for Legion.

FIRST ORDER

corps units

- FO stormtroopers

- FO snowtroopers

- FO mountain troopers

- Sith troopers (stretch, not much different from regular FO, different tech maybe)

heavy options (add ons)

- FO flametrooper

- Riot Trooper

- heavy trooper.

Special troops

- FO Executioners

- FO relic/purge troopers

- FO jet trooper

Vehicles

-Treadspeeder

-FO snowspeeder

-FO AT-ST

-UA-TT

Commanders

-Kylo ren

-Captain Phasma

-Hux

-Commander Pyre

-FO officer (generic)

Operatives

-Agent Tierny

-Dj

-Axe Tagrin ( these last two a stretch, and would better fit in a pirate type faction, but until thats a thing , these remain on the table)

RESISTANCE

corps units

- Resistance army troopers (helmets)

-Resistance troopers (crait-like)

-Resistance personnel (the mechanics, pilots, pulling double duty)

heavy options

- Ovissian gunner, heavy gunner dude

-heavy security droid, (also possibly corps or special).

Special troopers

- *crickets* ( this is where the problems arise)

Vehicles

- Cavalry

- personnel speeder

- Jungle X-hopper

- Ski-speeder

- Resistance transport pod?

Commanders

- General Leia

- Poe Dameron (could be like Iden and be an operative too)

- Finn

- Rey whoever (would probably work better as an operative but as the core sets go, lightsaber against lightsaber)

Operatives

- Kaydel Connix

- Kazuda Xiono

- Snap Wexley

- Han? (stretch)

- Chewbacca (still stretch, but maybe less so)

- other Resistance heroes perhaps as squad commanders.

so we need a few more specialized things for Resistance and we would be looking at a solid roster.

I love this list. I think Pryde would be a good addition, as noted by others, but beyond that the Knights of Ren would be awesome in include as they offer some really unique character designs and potentially cool weapon upgrades.

Im going back and adding some additions to my list, mostly Operatives and a few special units.

Couldn't Resistance and Rebels just share units and you can play as either/or minus the special characters?

3 hours ago, Xp45 said:

I wouldn't know what to do with Maz though...

Maz could work as the Resistance sub faction? Like if every faction gets a sub faction Resistance could be Citizens' forces while FO gets Sith Eternal. Would also fix the overlap for Snoke/Palp and Hux/Pride.

3 hours ago, Billion Year Old Carbon said:

Knights of Ren would be awesome in include as they offer some really unique character designs and potentially cool weapon upgrades.

Knights of Ren work really well for FFG and do the same job as Inquisitors. They can fill out the list without having to rely on Scum for opertives. Sort of reminds me of X-wing and I wonder if given the change FFG would pull Bossk and Boba from Empire.

3 hours ago, AsmallChicken said:

Couldn't Resistance and Rebels just share units and you can play as either/or minus the special characters?

They Could, but then you have to balance that all out and Resistance has several vehicles that don't work with rebels, especially Company 77 for example.

It would actually be easier for FFG to just make Resistance it's own thing if they ever do it, it's easier to balance different factions against each other than it is to balance things within a single faction.

On 9/17/2020 at 10:48 AM, Xp45 said:

Regarding unique FO aesthetic, we no longer need an AT-ST for FO large vehicles, Ep. 9 gave us this awesomeness!

I would love to see this on a table. Big walker with a melee attack that ignores cover?

Truly, there is indeed enough variety if units, on both sides. Play with the faction mechanics, as I said, smaller unit count, but more heroes even in corps units would work great for the Resistance I think. Heck, I've also said that Finn should be a heroic and unique (singular character) corps Unit.

3 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

I would love to see this on a table. Big walker with a melee attack that ignores cover?

Truly, there is indeed enough variety if units, on both sides. Play with the faction mechanics, as I said, smaller unit count, but more heroes even in corps units would work great for the Resistance I think. Heck, I've also said that Finn should be a heroic and unique (singular character) corps Unit.

Ive also thought about a possible ability of the UA-TT to move some light cover like barricades, as it does in lore, you know, for the spice, but yes, the claw's primary purpose was going KNOCK KNOCK, FIRST ORDER OPEN UP! and busting down your wall, grabbing you in your sleep, parading you around town, and squeezing you like a lemon when they're done.

2 hours ago, Xp45 said:

5 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

I would love to see this on a table. Big walker with a melee attack that ignores cover?

Truly, there is indeed enough variety if units, on both sides. Play with the faction mechanics, as I said, smaller unit count, but more heroes even in corps units would work great for the Resistance I think. Heck, I've also said that Finn should be a heroic and unique (singular character) corps Unit.

Ive also thought about a possible ability of the UA-TT to move some light cover like barricades, as it does in lore, you know, for the spice, but yes, the claw's primary purpose was going KNOCK KNOCK, FIRST ORDER OPEN UP! and busting down your wall, grabbing you in your sleep, parading you around town, and squeezing you like a lemon when they're done.

The only issue with the UA-TT is that it may be too unique lol. Legion has so far done a lot of mirror factions and repeat of the same units. So my guess would be the FO AT-ST since they could use the same model with only a few different stats. Same for the Resistance getting the Crait airspeeder first.

Of coruse FFG does not really seem to have a clear plan for the future of the game so who knows?????????? With the way they were pumping out units before the virus I thought we would get the ST factions next year................. Now it looks like two units a quarter if we are lucky lol.

isnt the AT-ST already a big walker with a melee attack that ignores cover? 4 red dice with surge to hit can be pretty nasty.

unless you want it to be better than the AT-ST at melee, in which case youve found a way to make the the AT-ST even more pointless than the saber tank and AAT have already made it.

the problem with adding the first order is that it will literally just end up being a better version of empire with a similar aesthetic. Just like GAR already is. So its another GAR.

I would much rather see new factions that are aesthetically and mechanically different than existing factions.

5 minutes ago, Khobai said:

isnt the AT-ST already a big walker with a melee attack that ignores cover? 4 red dice with surge to hit can be pretty nasty.

unless you want it to be better than the AT-ST at melee, in which case youve found a way to make the the AT-ST even more pointless than the saber tank and AAT have already made it.

I was thinking more of the UA-TT can go "thats a nice wall, you've got there, would be a shame if someone, destroyed it" the UA-TT is armed with 5 cannons, two of which are repeaters, and an ordinance launcher, so it already has devastating firepower, if short range. I'm thinking you could choose, Claw extended you have an insanely strong melee attack that just flat out obliterates any cover, but you can't fire, but while the claw is down, you get medium range devastating firepower. You can't have both is the idea while also possibly giving it more versatile options in being able to move barricades or destroy small pieces of cover. There are just so many different things you could do with the vehicle

so its a way better AT-ST thats great

why should empire even be a faction at that point?

6 minutes ago, Khobai said:

so its a way better AT-ST thats great

why should empire even be a faction at that point?

well Yeah? it's been 40 years since the AT-ST was designed, the drawback is the thing is not anywhere near as fast, and hella expensive. The UA-TT would be incredibly effective, but you don't get much room to wiggle with it in a list.

edit: Nvm, the thing is apparently just as fast

31 minutes ago, Khobai said:

unless you want it to be better than the AT-ST at melee, in which case youve found a way to make the the AT-ST even more pointless than the saber tank and AAT have already made it.

the problem with adding the first order is that it will literally just end up being a better version of empire with a similar aesthetic. Just like GAR already is. So its another GAR.

I would much rather see new factions that are aesthetically and mechanically different than existing factions.

I would say that is more of a problem with Legion in general. They have done a pretty bad job of keeping the factions different and throw power creep on top of that. Nothing that a few rules added and point changes could not fix tho!!

I always point to X-wing as a game that has a lot of repeat units, but are mechanically very different for each faction. The Y-wing is in 3 factions and yet they are do vastly different things in each one.

28 minutes ago, Xp45 said:

well Yeah? it's been 40 years since the AT-ST was designed, the drawback is the thing is not anywhere near as fast, and hella expensive. The UA-TT would be incredibly effective, but you don't get much room to wiggle with it in a list.

Maybe make the vehicles the center part of FO list, like Rebels and their heroes. Allow the UA-TT to interact with objectives?