10 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

I think you are missing the point of Hyperspace. Hyperspace is only currently what has been released, with every faction limited to 4 ships. In 10 waves time, I dont see this changing, only what ships are available to play.
Scum had Fang, Firespray, TY 1300+escape pod, Modified TIE. Next time it might be 4 different ships, yes technically they had Scum had 5, but whats the point of a YT if you cant take a pod?

Hyperspace is limited Extended, it breaks up meta, you don't get the same people spamming the same net list over and over and over and over and over and over at local tournaments.
If you like the same Death Match on repeat, awesome for you, but there are a few of us who like to spice things up and change the list from time to time.

It's a thing called fun that we used to play for.

3 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

And your thoughts on everything else said?

No opinion?

I have an opinion. Net listing is going to be isworse in Hyperspace than in Extended just because there are so few options for each faction that it will take little time for the best 2 lists in each faction to rise to the top, and for the best 2 factions to rise to the top.

Extended has more diversity than Hyperspace. Not an opinion, just a fact. You are less likely to see the same lists over and over again in extended than you are in hyperspace. Again, less options means less diversity which means more list homogeneity. I’ve been playing Hyperspace for the last month and I’m already starting to see the meta collapsing around the strongest archetypes and facing the same lists over and over again.

The best lists in hyperspace are good enough to show up in extended, so you won’t really be getting a completely fresh experience going from extended to hyperspace. There were multiple hyperspace lists that made the top 16 of the Toronto system open extended event. X-Wings, Y-Wings and U-Wings are just as popular in extended as they are in hyperspace, same goes for Resistance Aces.

The only time Hyperspace is going to feel fresh and interesting is right after a points change, which is when extended is going to feel brand new anyway because FFG has shown they aren’t holding back when it comes to points changes and extended.

As someone who has been playing both formats equally, I’m having more fun and playing against a greater diversity of lists in extended than I am in hyperspace. You know that thing fun we used to play for? Before we let bitterness and salt about 1.0 or whatever taint our opinions?

13 hours ago, Porkchop Express said:

So that newer players, who may have a small collection, or don't have access to certain ships, can play without feeling that they are at a disadvantage for not having ship X or upgrade Y.

This.

Hyperspace is X-Wing with training wheels on. Since the developers have shown that they are willing to price something out of the game (see Luke (gunner), High PS SNR) its not really needed to keep meta's free from broken cards. Extended is for when the newbies feel more comfortable and want to open up to the rest of the game.

3 hours ago, Tvboy said:

Extended has more diversity than Hyperspace. Not an opinion, just a fact. You are less likely to see the same lists over and over again in extended than you are in hyperspace. Again, less options means less diversity which means more list homogeneity. I’ve been playing Hyperspace for the last month and I’m already starting to see the meta collapsing around the strongest archetypes and facing the same lists over and over again.

Extended has more options, doesn’t mean it’s more diverse. Wait a couple of waves like 1.0 and the same top 16’s will be back. Hyperspace limits what some people see as NPE ships like Palob and 4-LOM.

So far in my Hyperspace experience, I haven’t flown against the same list twice. The same cannot be said for extended.

I like both formats. I like themed tournaments, ie battle for Yavin. I would rather these than the repetitious death matches that 1.0 had.

For what it's worth, FFG at least sees it as an option:

GAME MODE There are various game modes that limit which ship and upgrade cards are available for squad building. The X-Wing Squad Builder shows the limitations for the various game modes presented at any given time. Check out X-Wing.com for additional information. • The squad point cost for cards can vary between game modes. (RRG pg 11. )

19 hours ago, kris40k said:

This.

Hyperspace is X-Wing with training wheels on. Since the developers have shown that they are willing to price something out of the game (see Luke (gunner), High PS SNR) its not really needed to keep meta's free from broken cards. Extended is for when the newbies feel more comfortable and want to open up to the rest of the game.

LOL - good joke. Extended IS Xwing with training wheels on since you can come up with all sorts of silly-unbalanced combo that will make any untalented pilot looking good. We can talk about Punisher, White PTL, Protorps meta list has the perfect example.

For me, HS is the real thing, because less ships (soon 7 factions - which will give a big boost to that format), gives FFG a better control of what has to be adjusted, balanced, etc. And with the example of the Triple Upsillon list, I really feel that FFG is doing a diligent job at making sure the balance is adequate.

On 3/4/2019 at 1:33 AM, hawk32 said:

Then justify having 2 different formats.

So FFG can make it so new comers to the game aren't massively outpaced by veteran collectors in competitive play. So not EVERY ship from 1.0 is immediately available in 2.0 tournament settings. So FFG can tweak what ships and upgrades are available in hyperspace tournaments.

13 minutes ago, Skitchx said:

So FFG can make it so new comers to the game aren't massively outpaced by veteran collectors in competitive play. So not EVERY ship from 1.0 is immediately available in 2.0 tournament settings. So FFG can tweak what ships and upgrades are available in hyperspace tournaments.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the best rebel/imp/scum extended lists all better than the best rebel/imp/scum hyperspace lists?

3 hours ago, powersink said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the best rebel/imp/scum extended lists all better than the best rebel/imp/scum hyperspace lists?

Sure - more ship, pilot, and upgrade options. What's your point?

Extended format is different from hyperspace format. Which is the exact question that the original poster had - why the need for two formats? I simply answered their question.

21 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

Extended has more options, doesn’t mean it’s more diverse. Wait a couple of waves like 1.0 and the same top 16’s will be back. Hyperspace limits what some people see as NPE ships like Palob and 4-LOM.

Wait a couple of waves and Palob and 4-LOM will be legal in Hyperspace. Hyperspace didn't help to limit the NPE that was triple upsilons, they had to emergency nerf it. Nor is it helping to limit the NPE that is 5 Ion Cannon Y-Wings with 4 VTGs, a list with 40 health, 9 attacks and removes the opponents ability to set dials. Also NPEs are subjective, I personally consider all Fang Fighters to be NPEs because it's ridiculous that they can use an ability called Faceoff while they aren't facing me.

The recent tournament results from Redmond, the largest hyperspace event since the points change, shows that the hyperspace format is becoming infested with duplicate net lists and that they are being rewarded with top finishes. There were a ton of quad Phantoms at the Toronto System Open, but that was a remnant from the previous season, and only one of them made the top cut, which was otherwise made up of 14 different unique lists. Those of us who are actually watching the results can see the trend emerging in real time.

For me personally, Hyperspace offers nothing that I can't already do in extended. Also there aren't any real boogeymen in Extended that aren't also in Hyperspace. You're not escaping Leia crew or VTG Y-Wing spam by fleeing to Hyperspace. I have not had problems with quad Phantoms or Palob since they got nerfed. The fact that we had multiple Hyperspace lists in the top 14 at Toronto's main event also means that if your Hyperspace list can't cut it in Extended, it doesn't deserve to cut it in Hyperspace either. And that's ultimately the problem that I have with Hyperspace, it doesn't actually lower the power level curve like everyone claims it does, it has the same powerlevel curve as extended but just less options.

21 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

Wait a couple of waves and Palob and 4-LOM will be legal in Hyperspace. Hyperspace didn't help to limit the NPE that was triple upsilons, they had to emergency nerf it. Nor is it helping to limit the NPE that is 5 Ion Cannon Y-Wings with 4 VTGs, a list with 40 health, 9 attacks and removes the opponents ability to set dials. Also NPEs are subjective, I personally consider all Fang Fighters to be NPEs because it's ridiculous that they can use an ability called Faceoff while they aren't facing me.

The recent tournament results from Redmond, the largest hyperspace event since the points change, shows that the hyperspace format is becoming infested with duplicate net lists and that they are being rewarded with top finishes. There were a ton of quad Phantoms at the Toronto System Open, but that was a remnant from the previous season, and only one of them made the top cut, which was otherwise made up of 14 different unique lists. Those of us who are actually watching the results can see the trend emerging in real time.

For me personally, Hyperspace offers nothing that I can't already do in extended. Also there aren't any real boogeymen in Extended that aren't also in Hyperspace. You're not escaping Leia crew or VTG Y-Wing spam by fleeing to Hyperspace. I have not had problems with quad Phantoms or Palob since they got nerfed. The fact that we had multiple Hyperspace lists in the top 14 at Toronto's main event also means that if your Hyperspace list can't cut it in Extended, it doesn't deserve to cut it in Hyperspace either. And that's ultimately the problem that I have with Hyperspace, it doesn't actually lower the power level curve like everyone claims it does, it has the same powerlevel curve as extended but just less options.

I was at Redmond, and I came away with a very different conclusion.

Rebels, Imperials and Resistance were all represented very well, and every chassis in their factions made it into the top 18. Outside of a few five Y-Wing squads, there was not much in the way of duplicate lists. Both 5Y squads in the top 16 got bounced in the first round, despite being the top two after the cut. And credit where it's due: Chris Norris is a fantastic player who made the Coruscant Invitational in 2017. He's not a scrub who picked up list off the net.

Scum and First Order did not fare as well, outside of one very notable exception. I think this is because Scum's low-initiative pilots aren't as good as those in the other factions, and their aces are currently very expensive compared to others. A naked Fenn Rau costs the same as Hate Vader, and more than Wedge Antilles with Proton Torpedoes. Boba Fett is now more expensive than any YT-1300 pilot. FFG probably over-corrected a bit when they nerfed Boba, and the faction as a whole is hurting for it.

6 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

I was at Redmond, and I came away with a very different conclusion.

Rebels, Imperials and Resistance were all represented very well, and every chassis in their factions made it into the top 18. Outside of a few five Y-Wing squads, there was not much in the way of duplicate lists. Both 5Y squads in the top 16 got bounced in the first round, despite being the top two after the cut. And credit where it's due: Chris Norris is a fantastic player who made the Coruscant Invitational in 2017. He's not a scrub who picked up list off the net.

Scum and First Order did not fare as well, outside of one very notable exception. I think this is because Scum's low-initiative pilots aren't as good as those in the other factions, and their aces are currently very expensive compared to others. A naked Fenn Rau costs the same as Hate Vader, and more than Wedge Antilles with Proton Torpedoes. Boba Fett is now more expensive than any YT-1300 pilot. FFG probably over-corrected a bit when they nerfed Boba, and the faction as a whole is hurting for it.

I'm looking at the actual data in List Fortress. 5 Y 5 Ion 4 VTG list made up 6.49% of the Redmond tournament total list count. The most common duplicate list at the Toronto event was quad Phantoms (discounting that some had crackshot and some didn't) which made up 4.54% of that tournament. Quint Ys made up 12.5% of the top cut, while quad phantoms only made up 7% of the top cut at Toronto, and both lists got bounced in the first round of top cut. Obviously this is a small sample size despite these being relatively large tournaments, but data is data and feelings are feelings.

Also I said nothing about the skill of either of the players that made the top cut with the 5 Ys. If they made top cut then obviously they are good players. Shame on anyone who tries belittle the accomplishments of others because of the list they chose to run. That's something that other people in this community revel in doing that I refuse to partake in. This was a discussion about whether Hyperspace solves the problem of seeing duplicate net lists in competitive play, and I am comparing the results of Toronto and Redmond, the 2 largest events for their respective formats, to argue that neither format is better than the other one in this regard, and in fact hyperspace is actually slightly worse than extended in that regard when you look at the numbers. Which is LOGICAL when you are talking about a format that has less than half the available options, it's only intuitive that the format with less options is going to have less diversity.