I have a hyper tournament coming up and lately I like flying the bomber with X-wing & A-wing escort. I've tinkered a little in the squad builder and come up with 2 lists.

Number 1:

Main idea here is to joust with Vennie, as he is built to soak hits. With his skill and double focus he has guaranteed evades if the enemy is in the front arc and then he double taps. Then he does a red 0 maneuver and the same situation happens again. Hopefully the enemy loses his shields after that and gets a proton crit after getting on Vennie's tail. I want a 1 point bid, so I have 5 more points to spare.

MG-100 StarFortress - •Vennie - 90
•Vennie - Crimson Cutter (62)
Perceptive Copilot (8)
Proton Bombs (5)
Shield Upgrade (4)
Veteran Turret Gunner (6)
Pattern Analyzer (5)

T-70 X-wing - •Nien Nunb - 61
•Nien Nunb - Sarcastic Survivor (55)
Heroic (1)
Integrated S-foils (Closed) (0)
Pattern Analyzer (5)

RZ-2 A-wing - •L’ulo L’ampar - 43
•L’ulo L’ampar - Luminous Mentor (38)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Total: 194/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

Number 2:

Edon's skill works well with mines. Since he can drop them after movement, he can put them directly on an unsuspecting enemy. And proximity mines can deal 1 guaranteed hit + up to 2 more hits/crits. He is far less tanky then Vennie, but should hit hard with Rose on board. And with extra points I can upgrade Nien to Poe for better chances in the endgame. 2 points left for more upgrades.

RZ-2 A-wing - •L’ulo L’ampar - 39
•L’ulo L’ampar - Luminous Mentor (38)
Heroic (1)

T-70 X-wing - •Poe Dameron - 71
•Poe Dameron - Trigger-Happy Flyboy (68)
Heroic (1)
R4 Astromech (2)
Integrated S-foils (Closed) (0)

MG-100 StarFortress - •Edon Kappehl - 87
•Edon Kappehl - Crimson Hailstorm (66)
•Rose Tico (9)
Proximity Mines (6)
Veteran Turret Gunner (6)

Total: 197/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

So what do you guys think? Which list is better? What would you change?

I like both Kappehl and Vennie, and both of the lists look interesting. For the first, you might want to consider Black One title on Nien Nunb or drop the Advanced Optics on L'ulo and put Page Tico on Vennie for double tap shenanigans. For the second, you might want to consider tinkering with the slots to get a Proton Bombs on with the Proximity Mines, and use Kappehl as a dedicated bomber.

As an aside - I didn't realize that Proximity Mines were legal in Hyperspace...haven't used 'em yet.

I've never tried Edon, but I'm afraid he's just not that good. Placing a mine under the enemy is not that easy with the big base and that horrible dial. And initiative 3 doesn't even guarantee that you move first. If there's anything in your way, you'll bump and you can't drop the device. And even if you succeed, you will have your back turned against the enemy. That reduces your firepower and you will have the long way to turn around.

I've had some success with the following list:

Finch Dallow (66)
Rose Tico (9)
Veteran Turret Gunner (6)
Proton Bombs (5)
Seismic Charges (3)

Poe Dameron (68)
Predator (2)
R4 Astromech (2)
Integrated S-Foils (0)

L’ulo L’ampar (38)
Total: 199

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

Predator didn't do much for me and I would replace it now with the black one title. Also the proton bombs were rather mediocre as often you'll risk taking a crit yourself and the bomber just really doesn't like that. The Seismic Charges however have been awesome. Finch tries to squeeze through some obstacles and you'll usually manage to place a bomb in range to 2 or even 3 obstacles. Then you can see where the enemy moves and blow up the best obstacle. That almost guarantees to hit one or two of the enemy ships (and usually also Finch). I'm a big fan of the VTG/Rose combo. You'll have great modifications on both shots and do a ton of damage. Ships that end up in range 1 in front of Finch just melt. In most matches the opponent went for Finch. That meant that Poe and L'ulo were free to do whatever they liked.

I'm planning to try the following list now:

Vennie (62)
Pattern Analyzer (5)
Rose Tico (9)
Veteran Turret Gunner (6)
Paige Tico (7)

Poe Dameron (68)
R4 Astromech (2)
Integrated S-Foils (0)
Black One (2)

L’ulo L’ampar (38)
Total: 199

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

I will see if Vennie lives longer than Finch to do enough damage.

55 minutes ago, cybu said:

I will see if Vennie lives longer than Finch to do enough damage.

Please comment with what you will find out

5 hours ago, cybu said:

I've never tried Edon, but I'm afraid he's just not that good. Placing a mine under the enemy is not that easy with the big base and that horrible dial. And initiative 3 doesn't even guarantee that you move first. If there's anything in your way, you'll bump and you can't drop the device. And even if you succeed, you will have your back turned against the enemy. That reduces your firepower and you will have the long way to turn around.

Edon's great for unpredictable device dropping, especially when you use him for that role only. When I played him, I had a Skilled Bombardier on him, I believe (it's been a while), along with Trajectory Sims, Ablative Plating, Proton Bombs, and Seismic Charges, so I could drop or launch a bomb during the System Phase at R5 front, R4 front, R1 back, or R2 back, or wait until I executed a maneuver to get into better placement and then drop at R1 or R2 back. Since he's got the low initiative he will move first, but that means that you can either launch and avoid or move and drop, and also function to block higher initiative ships which are then more likely to be caught in the detonation.

24 minutes ago, feltipern1 said:

Edon's great for unpredictable device dropping, especially when you use him for that role only. When I played him, I had a Skilled Bombardier on him, I believe (it's been a while), along with Trajectory Sims, Ablative Plating, Proton Bombs , and Seismic Charges , so I could drop or launch a bomb during the System Phase at R5 front, R4 front, R1 back, or R2 back, or wait until I executed a maneuver to get into better placement and then drop at R1 or R2 back. Since he's got the low initiat  ive he will move first, but that means that you can either launch and avoid or move and drop, and also function to block higher initiative ships which are then more likely to be caught in the detonation.

Ok, I see. Edon is a completely different beast than VTG gunner and fills a different role. I have played the bomber in 1st Edition to some good results (semi-final in a System Open among other things) and I have a hard time finding the right place for it. I have used this setup:

"Crimson Specialist" (27)
Trajectory Simulator (1)
Bomblet Generator (3)
Deflective Plating (1)

Total: 32

That's 64 in new money. Finch starts now at 66 naked. With the similar setup he's at 87 points. Considering that you get only 2 bombs for that (if you're not willing to spend shields) and that bombs have become considerably worse, I have trouble seeing the Bomber as a platform for bombs. You have to get the most out of that front primary weapon and the rotating arc. So for me it fills a completely different role than in 1.0 (and that makes me kinda sad). At the moment I'm stuck with the VTG version and I see bombs only as a secondary option.

Here's my thing with Starfortresses. I want them with VTG. If they have VTG, I want them to have decent mods. That means PerCo (or 3PO) and FCS. But if I'm using those tokens on offense, Vennie's ability becomes rather worthless. Imo, the most efficient use of a single starfortress is a generic with VTG, FCS, and 3PO. If I'm running 2, more options seem valid to me.

Just that single generic as mentioned above, with PA tacked on too, leaves room for Poe with Heroic, R4, and the title, and L'ulo with Heroic and Predator, and 9 points of bid/more stuff

1 hour ago, Greebwahn said:

Here's my thing with Starfortresses. I want them with VTG. If they have VTG, I want them to have decent mods. That means PerCo (or 3PO) and FCS. But if I'm using those tokens on offense, Vennie's ability becomes rather worthless. Imo, the most efficient use of a single starfortress is a generic with VTG, FCS, and 3PO. If I'm running 2, more options seem valid to me.

Just that single generic as mentioned above, with PA tacked on too, leaves room for Poe with Heroic, R4, and the title, and L'ulo with Heroic and Predator, and 9 points of bid/more stuff

I fly Vennie as an end game piece with the double taps, so she hangs back with a generic RZ-2 with Intimidation until my X-Wing ace (in this case, Nien Nunb) does some damage and then comes in to finish off and mop up. As a result, she's fully modded up for most early defense. It might be worth investigating your option, @Greebwahn , since I have but one StarFortress to use.

1 hour ago, cybu said:

So for me it fills a completely different role than in 1.0 (and that makes me kinda sad). At the moment I'm stuck with the VTG version and I see bombs only as a secondary option.

I've always liked the bombs, and I still try to use them in weird ways. I had an Emon Azameen/Captain Nym list that I enjoyed just for bombing shenanigans.

3 hours ago, Greebwahn said:

Here's my thing with Starfortresses. I want them with VTG. If they have VTG, I want them to have decent mods. That means PerCo (or 3PO) and FCS. But if I'm using those tokens on offense, Vennie's ability becomes rather worthless. Imo, the most efficient use of a single starfortress is a generic with VTG, FCS, and 3PO. If I'm running 2, more options seem valid to me.

Just that single generic as mentioned above, with PA tacked on too, leaves room for Poe with Heroic, R4, and the title, and L'ulo with Heroic and Predator, and 9 points of bid/more stuff

If you use Vennie defensive early game then is like trying to take down a reinforced ship. Can take awhile, and Vennie's friends can put damage in. If you try to take Vennies friends first then Vennie go offensive and just wrecks things. With the ps1 bomber, the enemy can always target him first because he doesnt have the staying power of Vennie, but still has the offensive power. Vennie is just a bad decision either way. But if dropping Vennie to Cobalt allows you to get Poe instead of Ello or Nein then that might be the upgrade that is worth it.

Take C3PO on Vennie, and Rey... tankiest thing there is.

On 3/2/2019 at 1:59 PM, RealSpecter said:

Please comment with what you will find out

So, I've finally had the opportunity to try this list:

Vennie (62)
Pattern Analyzer (5)
Rose Tico (9)
Veteran Turret Gunner (6)
Paige Tico (7)

Poe Dameron (68)
R4 Astromech (2)
Integrated S-Foils (0)
Black One (2)

L’ulo L’ampar (38)
Total: 199

I faced 4x Ini 4 T-70; quite a scary squad. I placed Vennie facing a gap between rocks in the middle. The opponent placed all X-Wings on my right board edge and I tried to flank with Poe and L'ulo from left. The X-Wings were set up to go straight for my Bomber. I really thought about turning away, but experience has taught me that the Fortress is not a ship to dance around rocks to get in a better position. Worst thing that can happen is to get caught by the X-Wings with the back exposed. So I went to face the 4 T70s. The only question was if I should go fast or slow. I was hoping to quickly get to the rocks for some protection and to block all routes of the X-Wings should they choose to come in fast. The first turn of shooting, I got 1 or 2 shields in Range 3 of an X-Wing and nothing in return. Next turn i went full speed ahead with the Fortress, hoping the opponent would fly past me with at least 1 or 2 ships, but he caught me with all 4 of them. 😣
Vennie took way too much damage. That I only rolled blanks, even though some shots came trough rocks, didn't help at all. So I burned the focus on the last defence roll to get at least one evade result (from Vennies ability). And the return fire from Poe and Vennie took the damaged X only to 1 hull. Next turn Vennie provoked a bump but some T70s could still shoot and killed him. Meanwhile Lulo was a superstar. He flanked like a pro, taking some shots from front and rear without ever getting return fire. Poe took some damage but got out alive. He had the Ion crit and was in danger of getting caught by several of the 4 X-Wings. A 3 bank left followed by a SLAM Tallon Roll right got him behind enemy lines and in protection of a rock. He gladly took an Ion to still get a shot (if you're ionized anyway, you will take that second Ion token gladly). In the last turn Lulo went for the 1-hull X and Poe tried his luck with a 4-hull X. If both would kill their ships (and live to tell the tale), i would go for a final salvo with a 125-125 tie. Poe didn't deliver (which would have been really rather unlikely) and Lulo whiffed his range 1 shot (which was also rather unlikely). Loss 75-125

That the 1-hull X lived was really unlucky. He could have died from several shots. But hey, that's how it goes sometimes.
Considering that Vennie didn't do too much this game, it was really close enough in the end. I had the feeling that a couple of damage here and there would give me the game. I was thinking what my original Finch build (Rose, VTG, Proton, Seismic) would have done. I guess with Finch I would have won the game. Considering everybody would have flown exactly the same routes, he would have had one additional round of shooting (2 shots at range 1) and he would have dropped a seismic that would have hit 3 or 4 of the X-Wings as well as himself. And if the X-Wings would have flown differently, more cautiously, that would have helped me as well. So for the moment, I guess, I'll stick with Finch.

I had some success with the following list. It was not a Hyperspace list, but I think it was close:

T-70 X-wing - •Lieutenant Bastian - 55
•Lieutenant Bastian - Optimistic Analyst (48)
•M9-G8 (7)
Integrated S-foils (Closed) (0)
Jamming Beam (0)

RZ-2 A-wing - •L’ulo L’ampar - 44
•L’ulo L’ampar - Luminous Mentor (38)
Crack Shot (1)
Juke (5)

MG-100 StarFortress - •Vennie - 101
•Vennie - Crimson Cutter (62)
•C-3PO (6)
Proton Bombs (5)
Seismic Charges (3)
Veteran Turret Gunner (6)
•Rey (14)
Pattern Analyzer (5)

Total: 200/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

I say "success" because I was happy with that in most of my matches, my opponents thought they were in for an easy fight, but had to work hard to beat me. Vennie in this config is an absolute tank. He blocked about half the damage he took, so it took about 24 hits to big him down! He also managed to give almost as good as he got. With Bastian blocking for him Vennie managed to kill a TIE Defender (Rexler), all by himself. Vennie was also instrumental in bringing about the death or severe beatings of my opponent's other aces (including Jendon, Kavil and 4-LOM).

Much of my selection of which enemy ships to fire at were base on who came to me. Where possible, I tried to avoid taking on all of my opponents at once. This worked well in the case of Rexler where he tried to flank me and I charged him. I managed to hold his wingmen (Jendon and Maarek) off with bombs. My bombs hit Jendon, but not Maarek, however Maarek's shyness kept him out of the fight for a while. Jendon and Rexler both payed for this (Rexler dead and Jendon with one HP left). I lost this battle on points, and even if I had killed Jendon, I would have lost by 1 point!

4-LOM and Kavil had Teroch and Seevor with them. I ran from the whole squad, got them mixed up and got 4-LOM to get in the way of Teroch. Kavil came in separate. I had to get Kavil with just L'ulo and Vennie because I took a gamble with Bastian and lost him in the first round (before he got and shots off). 4-LOM, Kavil and Teroch were not shy about eating Vennie's bombs (or his lasers). Vennie tanked most of the damage they threw at him. My biggest problem was by losing Bastian so early, I did not have the damage output to turn the battle in my favor.

The other battle I had was against swarm of 6 Trade Federation Drones and Wat. Even Vennie's awesome defense was no match for "The Death of 1000 Cuts". It did not help that I flew L'ulo in a piss poor manner (he did NO damage in that match and had only 1 shot). This was my worst match, but it was not Vennie's fault, rolled lots of hits, but those drones and their token sharing is badass! Their were so many rolls that would have meant damage but for a buddy's calculate token. The guy playing them was also good at spreading out the damage by messing with my target priority.

Overall, I thought the theme of the day was Vennie's wingmen didn't carry their weight. I think I will remove Juke from L'ulo, or replace him (I didn't use Juke much). Bastian was great, but he didn't manage to hurt much. I did not get the combo of having Vennie nail someone, then have Bastian take a target lock and take the kill shot. I am thinking maybe trying this out with Jess instead of Bastian, but she costs a lot more as the carrier of M9-G8 (who helped Vennie be the beast he was). I also though about using 3 Blue Recruit A-Wings, one with Squad Leader. I would then trade Vennie's seismic charges out for a Fire Control System. However, I really like the mileage I got out of the seismic charges.

Any idea would be welcome.