2 hours ago, Dwing said:

Calm your ****. The park was planned years ago, together with ep7. Off course they are not scrapping that.

SW toys are tanking big time.

Outside grown up SW fans, I have seen or heard zero hype for any of the SW shows from actual kids.

Finally the succes of x-wing the game, has nothing to do with ep 7 or 8, or how poorly Disney has handeled its new property. No SW did not go away overnight, but as other has mentioned, the love and craftmanship that was applied to the Marvel universe, was not used here, before they rushed into an aimless new trilogy. Further more, the cancellation of seceral SW movies should tell you Disney is on a correction course. Keep mocking people who has a different opinion than you, it only makes you look like a fool.

As overzealous Cpt Lackwit is with his his defense of Disney Era SW your claims of its failure is equality as exegerated. Disney had to do some course correction after Solo, yes, but it is not evidence that the franchise is dead or dying. With the Mandalorian, Clone Wars returning and Ep IX closing out the Skywalker saga there just too much coming down the pipeline to not get excited about something.

Besides, no movie franchise is perfect. Even Marvel struggled during it’s first few years until Avengers came out but even then they still had a few hiccups along the way. Its how well they recover from their mistakes is what makes a great franchise and there are alot reasons to believe that SW is getting back on track.

Thinking of the slew of quality content we’ve been getting since Rebels and TFA I can’t fathom the notion that any of it was simply rushed without much thought or care or even lacking in craftsmanship. Some of it may have fallen short of expectations but none of it was done willy-nilly and a lot of the new stories, designs, characters and world building are just straight up amazing and an improvement of what came before. Thats just my opinion though and you’re free to have yours but as far as I’m concerned there is no better time to be a Star Wars fan:)

25 minutes ago, Wraithdt said:

As overzealous Cpt Lackwit is with his his defense of Disney Era SW your claims of its failure is equality as exegerated. Disney had to do some course correction after Solo, yes, but it is not evidence that the franchise is dead or dying. With the Mandalorian, Clone Wars returning and Ep IX closing out the Skywalker saga there just too much coming down the pipeline to not get excited about something.

Besides, no movie franchise is perfect. Even Marvel struggled during it’s first few years until Avengers came out but even then they still had a few hiccups along the way. Its how well they recover from their mistakes is what makes a great franchise and there are alot reasons to believe that SW is getting back on track.

Thinking of the slew of quality content we’ve been getting since Rebels and TFA I can’t fathom the notion that any of it was simply rushed without much thought or care or even lacking in craftsmanship. Some of it may have fallen short of expectations but a lot of the new stories, designs, characters and world building are just straight up amazing and an improvement of what came before. Thats just my opinion though and you’re free to have yours but as far as I’m concerned there is no better time to be a Star Wars fan:)

I kind of agree with you. If you already were a SW fan, there is more content than ever. Quality of that content is varying and subject to personale opinion.

But... All wrote they crashed a franchise, the biggest one, and I stand by that. They are rebuilding now yes, and lets hope they got some respect for the beast they bought now. As for SW creating a lot of new fans or hype outside the fanbase, I have a hard time seeing it. Going into a local toystore, the is pretty much no SW stuff.

I know a lot of SW fans, its like there is no hype for ep 9, its a SW year, we are supposed to get the conclusion to the old trilogy (again) and as a fan, I see pretty much no hype in the fanbase, which is sad. For all the strawmen and stupid conclusions Cap Lackwit could draw from that, is kinda amazing tbh.

1 hour ago, Wraithdt said:

...Disney had to do some course correction after Solo, yes, but it is not evidence that the franchise is dead or dying.

...after The Last Jedi, you mean.

Solo had it's internal issues, true, but it's poor box office performance was more to do with Ruin Johnson's cinematic clusterfunk that came before it than what happened behind the scenes during production.

Most people I know who actually watched Solo agree it was a pretty good Star Wars movie.

26 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

...after The Last Jedi, you mean.

Solo had it's internal issues, true, but it's poor box office performance was more to do with Ruin Johnson's cinematic clusterfunk that came before it than what happened behind the scenes during production.

I know I heard many a person say they were skipping Solo in theaters to “punish” Disney/Rian. Which didn’t make much sense, considering that reflected on a different movie.

I would agree, TLJ was the point for needing to rebuild. It generated a ton of money, sure, but the alienation it created may not have been worth it in the end. Time will tell, and a prophet I am not.

Honestly, if they deliver solid content going forward I think Star Wars will be fine. I’m not really hyped about Ep9 when there’s few characters left I care about, but Mandalorian is promising.

2 hours ago, Dwing said:

But... All wrote they crashed a franchise, the biggest one, and I stand by that. They are rebuilding now yes, and lets hope they got some respect for the beast they bought now. As for SW creating a lot of new fans or hype outside the fanbase, I have a hard time seeing it. Going into a local toystore, the is pretty much no SW stuff.

I know a lot of SW fans, its like there is no hype for ep 9, its a SW year, we are supposed to get the conclusion to the old trilogy (again) and as a fan, I see pretty much no hype in the fanbase, which is sad. For all the strawmen and stupid conclusions Cap Lackwit could draw from that, is kinda amazing tbh.

It seems we both have different definitions of what crashing a franchise is. To me they just made a bad turn but I guess we’ll just have agree to disagree here.

I don’t know what portion of the fanbase you’re connected to but from where I’m sitting hype for the Mandalorian and Clone Wars season 7 is pretty high. The hype for EpIX is less but not insignificant but once SW Celebration comes around I expect it’ll spike up. I have a few friends who are simply not interested with any of new stuff but majority are at least looking forward to the tv shows if not EpIX.

1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:

...after The Last Jedi, you mean.

Solo had it's internal issues, true, but it's poor box office performance was more to do with Ruin Johnson's cinematic clusterfunk that came before it than what happened behind the scenes during production.

Most people I know who actually watched Solo agree it was a pretty good Star Wars movie.

Well TLJ may have split the fan base but it still made a lot of money. Solo did not. As far as Disney is concerned the former was a success but the later did not pan out the way they’d hoped so they had to make some course corrections in response to that.

I’m not convinced that TLJ played a big part in Solo’s lackluster box office performance either. What I think happened was the casual movie going audience did not go watch it as either they were unaware of its existance or due to a general disinterest in a Han Solo spin off. I haven’t personally met any who did not watch Solo because they were mad at TLJ, but I’ve met a lot who just weren’t interested enough to go out and watch it or did not know it was even out. Even amongst my friends who hated TLJ most of them went to watch Solo and ended up liking it a lot more.

I hope the mods will move this thread asap to offtopic

So tired of all the TLJ and sequel hate, just let it go already.

4 hours ago, nikk whyte said:

Thank you so much for this

You're very very welcome! But then there's...

5 hours ago, Dwing said:

Calm your ****. The park was planned years ago, together with ep7. Off course they are not scrapping that.

SW toys are tanking big time.

Outside grown up SW fans, I have seen or heard zero hype for any of the SW shows from actual kids.

Finally the succes of x-wing the game, has nothing to do with ep 7 or 8, or how poorly Disney has handeled its new property. No SW did not go away overnight, but as other has mentioned, the love and craftmanship that was applied to the Marvel universe, was not used here, before they rushed into an aimless new trilogy. Further more, the cancellation of seceral SW movies should tell you Disney is on a correction course. Keep mocking people who has a different opinion than you, it only makes you look like a fool.

Who the f**k cares about toy sales? Kids have tablets and phones these days. They're playing with digital toys more than any other, these days. But the market still exists for Star Wars toys, so they'll still make it, and if it was really doing so **** poorly, would they be making them? Listen to yourself.

"The cancellation of several star wars movies".

No, there's been no cancellation so much as, "Let's put this on hold for now, instead of pumping them out. We DO have Marvel as well, competing with ourselves is a bad idea." - which they learned quite well with SOLO, which did compete with two friggin' marvel-name films (yes, Deadpool does and doesn't count, but is still enough of an event that some individuals would decide to see it instead, based on budget.)

And why would you hear about hype from kids? How many kids do you talk to? Are you going around playgrounds as an adult man asking kids about their opinions on Star Wars, pretending to do some good old fashioned "You're Vader I'm Luke" duels? Should I call the cops given how many kids you apparently talk to for no reason about Star Wars? Probably not, because you don't, because children are no longer in your or my wheelhouse, because we're adults. We do not talk to them as regularly as we did as, you guessed it, children.

As for "Keep mocking people who has a different opinion than you, it only makes you look like a fool."...

Honey.

Dear.

Look at my name. You think I'm afraid to look foolish? This name was a gift from a disgruntled englishman. I have worn it in irony for many many years now... So really consider if it's worth even wasting your breath to try to embarrass me. You can't. Nobody here can. Try again.

I will say the new trilogy hasn't really had an aim. But there are plenty of plot threads, underlying, that have been consistent. If you haven't paid attention... Sorry my dude. But remember that The Original Trilogy that you clearly worship, was also aimless release-to-release. I mean, how many things were changed between the films? Vader wasn't intended to be Luke's Father in IV, "Darth" was a name, not a title if you listen to how Obi-Wan addresses him, I could keep going but I don't need to.

But we don't remember Star Wars for not having a plan. We remember it for the story it told, and, surprise surprise, we are all very attached to it since we saw it as children.

Something you need to understand is that the fandom's attachment to the OT as untouchable masterpieces is heavily influenced by their youthful attachment to it. Their perceptions are skewed the same way Sonic fans are about their franchise- they went so long without consistent new releases between generations that anything that didn't emulate what they grew up with was bad, forcing those who produced it to try to refind their identity and such for decades upon decades. They even had a similar "EU" issue to we did, where there was this whole line of comics and such that didn't really count as canon but some people outright- and still do prefer it.

Complete with rebooting or deleting old content.

Open your eyes, realize the glasses you wear, get a pair without tint, scale back to see the broader world around you.

You'll be a lot happier, like me.

Heh, i’m actually kind of hoping the resistance Y-Wing is some still Clone Wars surplus. Over 50 years later, and they’re still ticking.

10 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

You're very very welcome! But then there's...

Who the f**k cares about toy sales? Kids have tablets and phones these days. They're playing with digital toys more than any other, these days. But the market still exists for Star Wars toys, so they'll still make it, and if it was really doing so **** poorly, would they be making them? Listen to yourself.

"The cancellation of several star wars movies".

No, there's been no cancellation so much as, "Let's put this on hold for now, instead of pumping them out. We DO have Marvel as well, competing with ourselves is a bad idea." - which they learned quite well with SOLO, which did compete with two friggin' marvel-name films (yes, Deadpool does and doesn't count, but is still enough of an event that some individuals would decide to see it instead, based on budget.)

And why would you hear about hype from kids? How many kids do you talk to? Are you going around playgrounds as an adult man asking kids about their opinions on Star Wars, pretending to do some good old fashioned "You're Vader I'm Luke" duels? Should I call the cops given how many kids you apparently talk to for no reason about Star Wars? Probably not, because you don't, because children are no longer in your or my wheelhouse, because we're adults. We do not talk to them as regularly as we did as, you guessed it, children.

As for "Keep mocking people who has a different opinion than you, it only makes you look like a fool."...

Honey.

Dear.

Look at my name. You think I'm afraid to look foolish? This name was a gift from a disgruntled englishman. I have worn it in irony for many many years now... So really consider if it's worth even wasting your breath to try to embarrass me. You can't. Nobody here can. Try again.

I will say the new trilogy hasn't really had an aim. But there are plenty of plot threads, underlying, that have been consistent. If you haven't paid attention... Sorry my dude. But remember that The Original Trilogy that you clearly worship, was also aimless release-to-release. I mean, how many things were changed between the films? Vader wasn't intended to be Luke's Father in IV, "Darth" was a name, not a title if you listen to how Obi-Wan addresses him, I could keep going but I don't need to.

But we don't remember Star Wars for not having a plan. We remember it for the story it told, and, surprise surprise, we are all very attached to it since we saw it as children.

Something you need to understand is that the fandom's attachment to the OT as untouchable masterpieces is heavily influenced by their youthful attachment to it. Their perceptions are skewed the same way Sonic fans are about their franchise- they went so long without consistent new releases between generations that anything that didn't emulate what they grew up with was bad, forcing those who produced it to try to refind their identity and such for decades upon decades. They even had a similar "EU" issue to we did, where there was this whole line of comics and such that didn't really count as canon but some people outright- and still do prefer it.

Complete with rebooting or deleting old content.

Open your eyes, realize the glasses you wear, get a pair without tint, scale back to see the broader world around you.

You'll be a lot happier, like me.

You sure sound happy...

17 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

I will say the new trilogy hasn't really had an aim. But there are plenty of plot threads, underlying, that have been consistent. If you haven't paid attention... Sorry my dude. But remember that The Original Trilogy that you clearly worship, was also aimless release-to-release. I mean, how many things were changed between the films? Vader wasn't intended to be Luke's Father in IV, "Darth" was a name, not a title if you listen to how Obi-Wan addresses him, I could keep going but I don't need to.

Don't bother. Besides being an amazing movie and not just a great star wars episode, TLJ also serves as great identifier on who is not worth listening to at all. It is astonishing that we still see people bringing up their entirely irrational hatred based on lack of self-reflective awareness every time the movie is mentioned. At this point it is just embarassing.

So just let them keep rolling that boulder up the hill.

17 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Heh, i’m actually kind of hoping the resistance Y-Wing is some still Clone Wars surplus. Over 50 years later, and they’re still ticking.

This is what I’m wondering. New models or more of the same? Beefed back up a bit or stripped down further? 😂

14 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

TLJ serves as great identifier on who is not worth listening to at all.

Oh, you're absolutely 100% right on that point at least.

Y'know, most people would treat an episode like this past week as an exercise in humility. But others just carry right on lacking in wit.

29 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

And why would you hear about hype from kids?

Speaking solely for myself but… a lot. Got a 5 year old who loves Darth Vader, Chewie, R2, and Yoda. Got a bunch of shirts and toys. He has no awareness of the new stuff, but that’s because he isn’t ready. It really only exists as the OT and Prequels, as well as some of the animated series.

Star Wars still has some cachet, but it competes with Paw Patrol, Transformers, and superheroes. Honestly for kids his age the other Disney properties have a grater hook. They know what they are doing, and I promise you Disney doesn’t care if the kids buy a Han Solo action figure or a Mr Incredible one.

1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

Besides being an amazing movie and not just a great star wars episode, TLJ also serves as great identifier on who is not worth listening to at all.

Oof. I resent that.

I grew up primarily on the Prequels. I’ve never been a Prequel hater, never been an OT fanboy. When Disney started pumping out new stuff, I did my best to keep an open mind—look for the silver lining. I didn’t necessarily love TFA, but it was Star Wars, and I was okay with that. I enjoyed Rogue One, and I looked forward to The Last Jedi.

The thing is, TLJ was not objectively good. It had good moments, some great cinematography, and kept telling the story of some awesome characters. But—most importantly, IMO—it felt like a real kick to the head for the core of Star Wars fans. And while that includes the likes of those who **** on the Prequels, it also includes all of the fans who quietly enjoyed what parts they could while not shaming things they disliked. And I’m not okay with the way Rian basically took a crap on them, even if I don’t identify as a part of that group. 😕

28 minutes ago, Dwing said:

You sure sound happy...

"I have no reply, so I will insult you!"

look, lol, I'm on a day off, just bought a thousand dollar's worth of parts for my new PC, playing star trek online, and listening to some solid music.

I am doing really well. Just because a reply is long doesn't mean it's angry.

16 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Don't bother. Besides being an amazing movie and not just a great star wars episode, TLJ also serves as great identifier on who is not worth listening to at all. It is astonishing that we still see people bringing up their entirely irrational hatred based on lack of self-reflective awareness every time the movie is mentioned. At this point it is just embarassing.

So just let them keep rolling that boulder up the hill.

Fairly accurate. For instance, Ben Shapiro hates TLJ.

1 minute ago, SpiderMana said:

Oof. I resent that.

I grew up primarily on the Prequels. I’ve never been a Prequel hater, never been an OT fanboy. When Disney started pumping out new stuff, I did my best to keep an open mind—look for the silver lining. I didn’t necessarily love TFA, but it was Star Wars, and I was okay with that. I enjoyed Rogue One, and I looked forward to The Last Jedi.

The thing is, TLJ was not objectively good. It had good moments, some great cinematography, and kept telling the story of some awesome characters. But—most importantly, IMO—it felt like a real kick to the head for the core of Star Wars fans. And while that includes the likes of those who **** on the Prequels, it also includes all of the fans who quietly enjoyed what parts they could while not shaming things they disliked. And I’m not okay with the way Rian basically took a crap on them, even if I don’t identify as a part of that group. 😕

Nobody dook'd on you.

8 minutes ago, millertime059 said:

Speaking solely for myself but… a lot. Got a 5 year old who loves Darth Vader, Chewie, R2, and Yoda. Got a bunch of shirts and toys. He has no awareness of the new stuff, but that’s because he isn’t ready. It really only exists as the OT and Prequels, as well as some of the animated series.

Star Wars still has some cachet, but it competes with Paw Patrol, Transformers, and superheroes. Honestly for kids his age the other Disney properties have a grater hook. They know what they are doing, and I promise you Disney doesn’t care if the kids buy a Han Solo action figure or a Mr Incredible one.

Right, you've got a kid. D-Wing up there phrased it as though he constantly hears the opinions of kids.

9 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Oh, you're absolutely 100% right on that point at least.

Y'know, most people would treat an episode like this past week as an exercise in humility. But others just carrying lacking in wit.

I couldn't be offended by this if I tried, it's such a poor attempt at...

What is it an attempt at, even? I'm laughing over here.

2 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Fairly accurate. For instance, Ben Shapiro hates TLJ.

Most criticism is just so thinly veiled that the underlying cause instead of the alway mentioned proximate reason is clearly visible. TLJ was extremely solid from start to finish, with some of the best and most beautiful character arcs that we've seen in 2,5h of StarWars up until now. The most common criticisms are so extremely hypocritical that it is mind boggling how they don't implode.

Some criticism is very good and valid (there is not just one clear theme but a combination of several is e.g. a valid point I think), but the signal to noise ratio is far worse than this forum.

24 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

This is what I’m wondering. New models or more of the same? Beefed back up a bit or stripped down further? 😂

Depends on where the Resistance is at during episode 9, I suppose.

Sorry if I started another discussion regarding the re-use of much of the original ship design aesthetic. I just thought the Y-wings were old by time of the GCW, so they'd be antiques by the time of the new series. ILM had an art contest a few years ago. There were lots of interesting ships that fit the SW look. I guess I was thinking something new would come from that.

Perhaps the new tie bomber will borrow some of the silencer's appearance. It did have some serious firepower. Maybe we'll get a FO punisher that shares a chassis with the FO ship at the theme park.

1 hour ago, SabineKey said:

Depends on where the Resistance is at during episode 9, I suppose.

Given how VIII ended, nowhere good. I mean, they're literally one ship.

5 hours ago, Dwing said:

Going into a local toystore, the is pretty much no SW stuff.

I'm betting that has more to do with your region, or at a minimum the toy stores you've looked in, being very caustic towards "violent toys" than Disney not having them produced.

9 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

It does. I'm just hoping the Resistance Y-Wing looks something like ECHenry's gorgeous creation... Just, hope they don't fractalsponge the guy.

From an aesthetic standpoint I agree, from a function standpoint no. He theorycrafted it as a militarized yacht with sensor equipment because he thinks the B-Wing is a bomber instead of a gunship. It's like throwing out the A-10 because Apache's have a rotary cannon...

36 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

I'm betting that has more to do with your region, or at a minimum the toy stores you've looked in, being very caustic towards "violent toys" than Disney not having them produced.

From an aesthetic standpoint I agree, from a function standpoint no. He theorycrafted it as a militarized yacht with sensor equipment because he thinks the B-Wing is a bomber instead of a gunship. It's like throwing out the A-10 because Apache's have a rotary cannon...

That's not really a good comparison. He was correct in that Y-Wings were basically useless post Yavin, and even during. So he changed it to a long range support/recon craft that could definitely pull a heavy hitting role if it needed to, where he made the B-Wing an even bigger, more dedicated bomber. He was right to stratify and reclassify them this way.

ECHenry's Y-Wing would have a turret, gunner or crew, astromech, and systems. Alongside torpedo slots. But definitely on a medium base. It'd be formidable but clumsy. His B-Wing would also be medium base, 3 forward 2 back, and with linked reloads.

3 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

That's not really a good comparison. He was correct in that Y-Wings were basically useless post Yavin, and even during. So he changed it to a long range support/recon craft that could definitely pull a heavy hitting role if it needed to, where he made the B-Wing an even bigger, more dedicated bomber. He was right to stratify and reclassify them this way.

ECHenry's Y-Wing would have a turret, gunner or crew, astromech, and systems. Alongside torpedo slots. But definitely on a medium base. It'd be formidable but clumsy. His B-Wing would also be medium base, 3 forward 2 back, and with linked reloads.

We'll have to agree to disagree. The B-Wing was not designed to be a bomber, it was a cannon focused gunship, and his B-Wing 2 doesn't fit the role either (carrying missiles or Star Wars torps does not a bomber make, or are the Star Wing, X-Wing, and Scyks bombers to you as well?) since the bulk of its armament is still cannons (Heavy Laser and Ion), making it still a gunship despite his spoken emphasis on the size of the detachable torpedo mag. The Y-Wing was designed to be a bomber, stayed a bomber in the OT and he turned it into an armed yacht in his rework.

16 hours ago, IronOx said:

Why is the resistance getting a Y-wing? I mean, I know why it's happening, but that's just lazy story telling

I actually see this the other way around. I think it is lame when a movie franchise gives all new tech with every installment of the series.

Real militaries don’t work like that. How many decades were F-4s or F-16s used. The iconic .45 sidearm was designed in 1911 and I think it was standard issue well past the Vietnam war!

44 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

We'll have to agree to disagree. The B-Wing was not designed to be a bomber, it was a cannon focused gunship, and his B-Wing 2 doesn't fit the role either (carrying missiles or Star Wars torps does not a bomber make, or are the Star Wing, X-Wing, and Scyks bombers to you as well?) since the bulk of its armament is still cannons (Heavy Laser and Ion), making it still a gunship despite his spoken emphasis on the size of the detachable torpedo mag. The Y-Wing was designed to be a bomber, stayed a bomber in the OT and he turned it into an armed yacht in his rework.

You know, I never said the original B-Wing was a Bomber. But I don't know if I'd call it a gunship either. His B-Wing is a bomber. But his Y-Wing isn't a yacht, that's a very odd comparison. If anything, with the array of weapons it has (top and bottom turrets plus the fore weapons, and the ability to carry munitions, and POSSIBLY a rear weapon mount?), it's far, far more of a potential gunship than the B-Wing ever was.

25 minutes ago, Pewpewpew BOOM said:

I actually see this the other way around. I think it is lame when a movie franchise gives all new tech with every installment of the series.

Real militaries don’t work like that. How many decades were F-4s or F-16s used. The iconic .45 sidearm was designed in 1911 and I think it was standard issue well past the Vietnam war!

I understand what you're saying. There are a lot of planes that didn't last though. There are a handful of B52s with 50 year old air frames. The F117s however are now all retired.

The Y-wings stolen in Rebels were scheduled for dismantlement or storage. By the battle of Endor they seemed ineffective. I've heard there was going to be a scene with B-wings taking down a star destroyer in Jedi. Given the ion torpedo run in Rogue One, that missing scene from RotJ would have been a nice passing the torch moment. So, Resistance B-wings with plating removed and updated hardware would be much more interesting from a visual and narrative perspective in my opinion.

I do want a movie set between the OT and new trilogy that explains how corruption and espionage completely derails the E-wing production and deployment so we have a reason they aren't around.