In the Rules Reference ( pg 8 ) shields are defined as:

"Shields allow a ship to suffer damage without the risk of being dealt faceup damage cards."

Which seems to suggest that shields are, by definition, there to suffer damage. So if you "lose a shield" via effects like Optimized Prototype or Dalan Oberos (kimogila) are you also considered as having "suffered damage" which could trigger abilities such as Hate or Captain Jostero?

1 hour ago, hexiledgaming said:

In the Rules Reference ( pg 8 ) shields are defined as:

"Shields allow a ship to suffer damage without the risk of being dealt faceup damage cards."

Which seems to suggest that shields are, by definition, there to suffer damage. So if you "lose a shield" via effects like Optimized Prototype or Dalan Oberos (kimogila) are you also considered as having "suffered damage" which could trigger abilities such as Hate or Captain Jostero?

Suffering damage: Removing a shield or being dealt a damage card.

Being ‘Damaged’: Having 1 or more damage cards.

No. Suffering damage can cause you to lose a shield, but losing a shield from a source other than suffering damage is not suffering damage.

9 minutes ago, Innese said:

Suffering damage: Removing a shield or being dealt a damage card.

Being ‘Damaged’: Having 1 or more damage cards.

This does not actually answer the question.

5 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

This does not actually answer the question.

My mistake, I didn’t even fully read the post thinking it was one of the 20+ on the topic of Suffering Damage/Being Damaged

So here something if you lose your Shields and You been damaged to a point where you considered halfway destroyed. But you generate a shield by R2D2 for other means that bring you back up To less than half the damage. Does that mean your opponent does not get points for that ship be more than half again by the time the end of the game.

6 minutes ago, badgerclaw171 said:

So here something if you lose your Shields and You been damaged to a point where you considered halfway destroyed. But you generate a shield by R2D2 for other means that bring you back up To less than half the damage. Does that mean your opponent does not get points for that ship be more than half again by the time the end of the game.

yes

6 minutes ago, PanchoX1 said:

yes

That's what I thought but I Wanted confirmation.

Answering OP's original question: no, losing a shield is not the same as suffering damage.

"Suffering damage" will cause you to lose a shield (if you have any) or be dealt damage cards (if you do not). "Suffering damage" is one of several game effects that causes you to lose shields. Optimized Prototype and Dalan Oberos are other game effects that can cause you to lose shields, but they do not cause you to suffer damage. (Actually, optimised prototype could cause you to suffer damage by exposing a direct hit, but that's separate to removing shields). Thus, Dalan sadly does not work with Jostero, as fun as that would be

29 minutes ago, gadwag said:

Answering OP's original question: no, losing a shield is not the same as suffering damage.

"Suffering damage" will cause you to lose a shield (if you have any) or be dealt damage cards (if you do not). "Suffering damage" is one of several game effects that causes you to lose shields. Optimized Prototype and Dalan Oberos are other game effects that can cause you to lose shields, but they do not cause you to suffer damage. (Actually, optimised prototype could cause you to suffer damage by exposing a direct hit, but that's separate to removing shields). Thus, Dalan sadly does not work with Jostero, as fun as that would be

The strange part is that shields are defined as a token that "allows ships to suffer damage without the risk of being dealt faceup damage cards" and then under that the RR explains what to do when you are instructed to "lose a shield." Losing a shield is a bullet point under the definition of shields and that definition is essentially "damage sufferage markers"

Lol hex I still think you're wrong - losing a shield is an effect of suffering damage, but losing a shield does not count as suffering damage (I wish)

1 hour ago, hexiledgaming said:

The strange part is that shields are defined as a token that "allows ships to suffer damage without the risk of being dealt faceup damage cards" and then under that the RR explains what to do when you are instructed to "lose a shield." Losing a shield is a bullet point under the definition of shields and that definition is essentially "damage sufferage markers"

Don't forget the next bullet point, saying you can spend shield tokens, which is apparently a different usage than mitigating damage.

1 hour ago, Ccwebb said:

Yeah, this video is one of the reasons I asked. If you look around 0:51:

”shields = suffering damage”

To be bitpicky, @hexiledgaming , Shields are markers, not tokens.

The rules reference has a precise definition of Shields and how they can be interacted with (p. 16):

A ship can recover shields, flipping an inactive shield marker.There is no way of distinguishing an active shield from a recovered one, so recovering shields can recover half points.

A ship can lose a shield, flipping an active shield assigned to the ship. Taking damage is one way to lose shields, or a card can instruct you to.

A ship can spend a shield, causing a ship to lose a shield on "a card". We have a handful of cards that allow a ship to spend shields, and one card that interact with the fact that the shield you spend don't have to be on the ship itself (Lando's Millennium Falcon).

In summary: There are 3 ways to lose a shield: taking damage, losing a shield beacuse of an instruction on a card (like Dalan Oberos) or spending a shield assigned to you ship because of an instruction on a card (like Inertial Dampeners).

1 hour ago, Yearfire said:

To be bitpicky, @hexiledgaming , Shields are markers, not tokens.

The rules reference has a precise definition of Shields and how they can be interacted with (p. 16):

A ship can recover shields, flipping an inactive shield marker.There is no way of distinguishing an active shield from a recovered one, so recovering shields can recover half points.

A ship can lose a shield, flipping an active shield assigned to the ship. Taking damage is one way to lose shields, or a card can instruct you to.

A ship can spend a shield, causing a ship to lose a shield on "a card". We have a handful of cards that allow a ship to spend shields, and one card that interact with the fact that the shield you spend don't have to be on the ship itself (Lando's Millennium Falcon).

In summary: There are 3 ways to lose a shield: taking damage, losing a shield beacuse of an instruction on a card (like Dalan Oberos) or spending a shield assigned to you ship because of an instruction on a card (like Inertial Dampeners).

"Shields allow a ship to suffer damage without the risk of being dealt faceup damage cards. The blue number on a ship card is the ship’s shield value, indicating how many shields are placed on their active side on the ship card during setup. A ship is shielded while it has at least one active shield.

• When an effect instructs a ship to recover a shield , an inactive shield on the ship card is flipped to its active side. A ship cannot recover a shield if all of its shields are on their active sides.

• When an effect instructs a ship to lose a shield , a shield assigned to the ship card is flipped to its inactive side.

• When an effect instructs a ship to spend a shield , a card loses a shield. A ship cannot spend a shield if all of its shields are inactive."

So what we have is a definition of shields (they allow a ship to suffer damage...) and then 3 ways to interact with them (either turning them to the red or blue side). 2 of those ways COULD POSSIBLY be construed as suffering damage, since that is what shields are, by definition, there to do. And the other (recover) is a way to "allow a ship to suffer damage" in the future.

14 hours ago, Ccwebb said:

Dion actually addressed this question in the top comment:

Question:
" So if "losing shields" = "suffering damage" can Captain Jostero trigger from something like Dalan (kimogila) causing a ship to "lose a shield" with his pilot ability? "

Answer:

" Hi! I would say yes. Thanks for watching! "

well, i'm sorry, gold squadron podcast, but dion is wrong. you can loose shields as a result of suffering damage, yes, but loosing shields is not the same effect as suffering damage, it's simply a possible way to resolve suffering damage.

for further clarification on what constitues suffering damage, please read the part about damage on page 11 of the rules reference.

'Shields allow a ship to suffer damage' is neither all they do nor the only thing they do.

29 minutes ago, meffo said:

well, i'm sorry, gold squadron podcast, but dion is wrong. you can loose shields as a result of suffering damage, yes, but loosing shields is not the same effect as suffering damage, it's simply a possible way to resolve suffering damage.

for further clarification on what constitues suffering damage, please read the part about damage on page 11 of the rules reference.

Yes, the damage section is clear that "suffering damage" CAN result in losing shields but not if the inverse is always true, I.E. is "losing a shield" ALWAYS suffering damage.

This might help:

In page 8 of the Rules Reference under Damage Cards:

"Damage cards are used to track how much damage a ship
has suffered."

Same page under Damage:

"If an effect instructs a player to deal a damage card to a ship, this is
different from the ship suffering damage. "

So even though damage cards are defined as being used to track suffered damage, you can get damage card without suffering damage.

The same can be argued for shields.

Of course an entry in the FAQ might help making this clearer.

Just now, gjnido said:

Of course an entry in the FAQ might help making this clearer.

Honestly this is the best argument against the interpretation I've presented. Damage is defined and then shown that that definition is not complete. The strange thing there is that they make exceptionally clear what IS and IS NOT considered suffering damage in those cases where as with shields its just "sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't." I've submitted the question for an official ruling so we'll see.

it's not normally the case that what isn't is stated at all. hence the old argument, we do what the rules say, not what the rules don't say.

since the rules don't say loosing shields is suffering damage, loosing shields is not suffering damage.