3 minutes ago, arnoldrew said:

It would hang over the front so far that using the movement tool would be incredibly difficult. I just don't know how they will include it unless they shrink it way down.

They would definitely have to make a new base, or some combination of old bases, but the occupier sows that they aren't opposed to doing that. It could work on a semi circle with the diameter of the new base. That should fit the front wedge without much overhang, and the back part would be high enough to clear most soldier size minis.

2 hours ago, Gridloc said:

I really hope that its not a STAP and AT-RT for support, then it will be a clone (no pun intended) of the original starter. having all AT-Rts on the light side and speeders on the dark side seems boring. Why leaning toward droidekas and possibly giving clones the speeders this run around this time.

I can't see them doing Anakin in new starter, branching out and giving new characters like obi-wan seems more likely in my mind, and the grievous/kenobi feud is shown throughout the clone wars series. Though your point on ease of assembly does hold merit. That said if its not a 2 player starter but 2 individual army boxes, having those characters seems more likely.

Yeah, I'd lean towards Kenobi in the 2-player starter if it weren't for him being better paired with Grievous than Dooku, and my belief that Grievous done properly will be to complex for FFG to put in a starter box.

My second choice for an iconic GAR commander would be Anakin, who pairs decently with Dooku.

I’ve seen mention of a new starter for Clone Wars content. While it wouldn’t be bad, I don’t think this is too likely. Instead, I think we will see Army “Booster” sets.

Basically, these would be equal to the contents, or half of anyways, a starter. Obviously only for one faction, and not including dice or templates/range rulers/barricades. These are, after all, sold separately. So a new player buying this one faction would, yes, have to buy them, but returning/current players already have enough of these likely.

This is a good way to get an additional army going in my opinion. Listen, we all know buying that second starter is a great deal. But many have already done that. It is done to give that “first hit” intro to the game. Do we really need 32 barricades from 4 starters? Wouldn’t FFG like increased sales of the dice and template packs? I think so.

These booster or army starters are a good way to get the basic backbone of a force, well mostly anyway for any new armies. Include the Commander, 1 support and 2 corps units as well as command cards.

For existing armies, this idea has an added bonus. I mean how do you sell an imperial army booster to someone who already has an 4 squads of stormtroopers? Simple, put in that new commander and deviously change the sculpts for the stormtroopers that allow for more poses. People will eat that up, and likely buy multiples. Plus, new leader.

The above is the minimum. Were it me, I’d actually make these sets include the minimum requirements for an army. 1 commander, 3 corps (all the same) and a support unit.

While you could play this army, it will be bare bones.

3 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

I’ve seen mention of a new starter for Clone Wars content. While it wouldn’t be bad, I don’t think this is too likely. Instead, I think we will see Army “Booster” sets.

Basically, these would be equal to the contents, or half of anyways, a starter. Obviously only for one faction, and not including dice or templates/range rulers/barricades. These are, after all, sold separately. So a new player buying this one faction would, yes, have to buy them, but returning/current players already have enough of these likely.

This is a good way to get an additional army going in my opinion. Listen, we all know buying that second starter is a great deal. But many have already done that. It is done to give that “first hit” intro to the game. Do we really need 32 barricades from 4 starters? Wouldn’t FFG like increased sales of the dice and template packs? I think so.

These booster or army starters are a good way to get the basic backbone of a force, well mostly anyway for any new armies. Include the Commander, 1 support and 2 corps units as well as command cards.

For existing armies, this idea has an added bonus. I mean how do you sell an imperial army booster to someone who already has an 4 squads of stormtroopers? Simple, put in that new commander and deviously change the sculpts for the stormtroopers that allow for more poses. People will eat that up, and likely buy multiples. Plus, new leader.

The above is the minimum. Were it me, I’d actually make these sets include the minimum requirements for an army. 1 commander, 3 corps (all the same) and a support unit.

While you could play this army, it will be bare bones.

I think FFG are still looking to grow this game, and as such will tailor their products to the new starters who held off for clone wars, rather than to repeat customers at the expense of the newcomers.

It's massively offputting to require a new GAR or CIS player to go out and buy the GCW starter to get stuff like generic command cards, or even if they are included to go chase down multiple SKU's that may or may not be in stock to be able to use their newly bought army set.

Better to just have it all in a box, and the discount is good enough that repeat customers shouldn't be complaining about the redundant parts.

13 minutes ago, aniron said:

I think FFG are still looking to grow this game, and as such will tailor their products to the new starters who held off for clone wars, rather than to repeat customers at the expense of the newcomers.

It's massively offputting to require a new GAR or CIS player to go out and buy the GCW starter to get stuff like generic command cards, or even if they are included to go chase down multiple SKU's that may or may not be in stock to be able to use their newly bought army set.

Better to just have it all in a box, and the discount is good enough that repeat customers shouldn't be complaining about the redundant parts.

I did explicitly say that the command card should be included. I did not think that I had to imply that it was ALL the command cards, including the generic. The idea is a whole playable army in a box, just severely limited in terms of variety.

As to hunting dowb skus, how is that any different from having to buy expansions to make a playable army? I had stores in my area that got short shipped a few skus.

8 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

I did explicitly say that the command card should be included. I did not think that I had to imply that it was ALL the command cards, including the generic. The idea is a whole playable army in a box, just severely limited in terms of variety.

As to hunting dowb skus, how is that any different from having to buy expansions to make a playable army? I had stores in my area that got short shipped a few skus.

It's different because you can play the game using only what is in one single starter set. Not the tournament version of the game, but still.

3 hours ago, aniron said:

It's different because you can play the game using only what is in one single starter set. Not the tournament version of the game, but still.

Here's another way if looking at it. FFG is a company that is out to make money, correct?

Now while I don't have the numbers in front of me, I'm willing to bet that the GCW starter set has a very low profit margin. I'm sure they don't lose money, but it will be close. The idea is to draw people into the game.

The game has been out, what, a year now? Chances are, most people who want to play the game have played it already. Either bought it, or played with friends. FFG wants people to buy every single one of their products, again, so they can make money.

Now if we look at x-wing in 1.0, yes they did have two starters. It was years into the product lifecycle and they wanted to put in the new damage deck, as well as coincide with the largest Star Wars moment (the Release if the force awakens) in decades. It made sense. X-wing 2.0 you can focus on one faction, but, if that faction is Republic, CIS, or scum, you still need to buy the base game for templates, tokens, etc.

Of course now FFG is selling plastic templates, they sell dice. Everything, say a Republic only player will need really, without having to buy something they don't want to fly.

Do you see where I am going with this? What I suggest above is EXACTLY what FFG is doing with the clone wars factions in x-wing. There is a precedent. It obviously makes sense to them.

I believe the longer the game is out, the fewer starters will be sold, this makes sense as the majority of people have purchased it at launch. Yes, there will be a slow trickle of new players, but the majority are already playing it. FFG wants to, again, make money - as much as possible while providing the illusion of value to a customer. Said customer is more often the returning/current player who wants the new ‘shiney’.

FFG knows they will sell the new factions however they come regardless. I'm just thinking like a business that wants to make profit, while you are thinking like a player only.

Finally, while not the be all and end all, GW starters (to my knowledge, most games) that release a starter set choose the two main factions while every other faction you have to buy into seperately. It is a business model that works.

Yes, a starter is good for players, but what I suggest is better for the business and not prohibitive to a player that only wants CIS or Republic, or like me, having chosen to only collect Empire, may consider getting a second army in the CIS.

5 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Finally, while not the be all and end all, GW starters (to my knowledge, most games) that release a starter set choose the two main factions while every other faction you have to buy into seperately.

Not anymore.

3 hours ago, TauntaunScout said:

Not anymore.

Could you elaborate? Looking at warhammer 40k (as it will be the most similar) I see three starters? Dark Imperium, First Strike, and Know No Fear. These all seem to be the same, or very simialr marines vs chaos.

I see many “Start Collecting” sets which include many models of any one particular faction. The only “starter” sets simialar to Legion are listed above, and as noted, they all contain variations on the same two factions at quick perusal.

If there are other companies that do several different starters, I admit I am unaware, but from what I've seen, most seem to follow very similar to the above.

18 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Could you elaborate? Looking at warhammer 40k (as it will be the most similar) I see three starters? Dark Imperium, First Strike, and Know No Fear. These all seem to be the same, or very simialr marines vs chaos.

They frequently release limited edition starter sets which are a really good value using repackaged products instead of specially sculpted snap-fit starter models. I bought several of the "Blood Angels vs. Tyranids" one that they did as a teaser before Genestealer Cult was re-released but there's also been "Space Wolves vs. Orks", and others.

Plus they release "boardgames" that are also/actually two awesomely priced starter factions for 40k (such as Deathwatch: Overkill ), or awesomely priced big vehicle expansions. Flyers were too expensive for a lot of players and kind of OP in the games... GW's partial solution was to release a few different "dogfighting" games with two heavily discounted flyers for various factions. They did one with heavily discounted Imperial Knights, too. They were so discounted, my friend and I each got a free knight by splitting a box and piecing out the upgrade sprues and scenery in the box!

They aren't usually super-limited release and so can be found kicking around game store shelves for awhile. The price tags for these sets are high but the value is amazing so it's definitely helping the cash strapped but motivated players.

18 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Could you elaborate? Looking at warhammer 40k (as it will be the most similar) I see three starters? Dark Imperium, First Strike, and Know No Fear. These all seem to be the same, or very simialr marines vs chaos.

I see many “Start Collecting” sets which include many models of any one particular faction. The only “starter” sets simialar to Legion are listed above, and as noted, they all contain variations on the same two factions at quick perusal.

If there are other companies that do several different starters, I admit I am unaware, but from what I've seen, most seem to follow very similar to the above.

"Start Collecting" sets are starters, usually for factions that aren't included in the bigger starter sets that you saw. They are generally a really good deal. the situation is basically the opposite of what you are positing (that you have to pay full prices to start a faction that isn't in a "starter" that contains 2 factions".

@That Blasted Samophlange

FFG has already released similar expansion bundles for armies not included in the core set box for some of their other games. The "split starter" idea is directly lifted from the Runewars miniature game, where the two factions not in the Starter had a their own half starters, with a commander and units, plus an "essentials" pack was sold, containing the rough equivalents to the Command Cards (cardboard needed for any army).

On the other hand there's X-Wing, that also has "quick start" packs for the new Clone wars factions, containing 3 ships at a discounted price ($40 instead of the $60 those size of ships would usually cost individually), BUT the damage deck can't be purchased separately as far as I know, still necessitating the purchase of the starter. The initial Scum and Villainy upgrade pack worked much the same way, but also had cards to convert some pre-existing models to the new faction.

These are the approaches FFG has previously taken to adding non-starter set factions to a miniatures game, and likely the best indicators of the way they will introduce GAR and CIS into Legion.

4 hours ago, arnoldrew said:

"Start Collecting" sets are starters, usually for factions that aren't included in the bigger starter sets that you saw. They are generally a really good deal. the situation is basically the opposite of what you are positing (that you have to pay full prices to start a faction that isn't in a "starter" that contains 2 factions".

Unfortunately they're only a good deal if you accept the premise that the GW models are a good value to begin with. I often look at the "start collecting" boxes as ALMOST as cheap as what the stuff would need to cost to pique my interest if sold individually!

But the stuff they do with the alternate core sets is usually a great value. Dice, rulebook, etc with a selection of normal (not push-fit) models for two factions and usually a limited edition hero or something besides. Those are great. I got like 3 of the Blood Angels vs Tyranids one! I got 3 of Deathwatch: Overkill too! They've made others. Eldar vs Admech or something, Chaos s Chaos(!), Orks vs Space Wolves....

17 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:

Unfortunately they're only a good deal if you accept the premise that the GW models are a good value to begin with. I often look at the "start collecting" boxes as ALMOST as cheap as what the stuff would need to cost to pique my interest if sold individually!

Good point.

5 hours ago, arnoldrew said:

"Start Collecting" sets are starters, usually for factions that aren't included in the bigger starter sets that you saw. They are generally a really good deal. the situation is basically the opposite of what you are positing (that you have to pay full prices to start a faction that isn't in a "starter" that contains 2 factions".

I don't believe I said the “booster” I’m suggesting had a price point, let alone did I suggest that it should cost the same as the starter.

I said it would have one armies contents in terms of units, maybe slightly more. Also not including the dice, rulers and barricades.

To a new player the cost would be, I should think, roughly 75-80% of a starter. This includes buying dice and rulers. Barricades are often not used in most game tables I've played on. This means they are not a necessity by any means.

Is it perfect? No. But it doesn't force existing players to start two new factions, only the one they choose.

While some will collect everything FFG puts out, some of us will not or simply can't do that. We have to pick and choose. Yes, I could sell studf on a secondary market. My posistion is based what is best for FFG to make money, and the current pricing of a stater will have a very low margin. A new army booster offers a higher profit margin I believe, on both it and them selling the dice/templates. FFG likely doesn't car about the secondary market as they don't make any money off of it, only selling new product.

As to rulebooks this is not relatable as FFG offer them digitally. There is no need for the books in the coreset at this point. They do the rules digitally. Except for a learn to play/assembly guide, nothing is needed.

3 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

@That Blasted Samophlange

FFG has already released similar expansion bundles for armies not included in the core set box for some of their other games. The "split starter" idea is directly lifted from the Runewars miniature game, where the two factions not in the Starter had a their own half starters, with a commander and units, plus an "essentials" pack was sold, containing the rough equivalents to the Command Cards (cardboard needed for any army).

On the other hand there's X-Wing, that also has "quick start" packs for the new Clone wars factions, containing 3 ships at a discounted price ($40 instead of the $60 those size of ships would usually cost individually), BUT the damage deck can't be purchased separately as far as I know, still necessitating the purchase of the starter. The initial Scum and Villainy upgrade pack worked much the same way, but also had cards to convert some pre-existing models to the new faction.

These are the approaches FFG has previously taken to adding non-starter set factions to a miniatures game, and likely the best indicators of the way they will introduce GAR and CIS into Legion.

Which is, in essence, what I am suggesting that they do, rather than a clone wars starter set.

1 hour ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Which is, in easence, what I am suggesting that they do, rather than a clone wars starter set.

I'm also curious as to whether they will take the X-wing approach, where the required deck is only available in the starter, or the Runewars approach and offer those cards separately. For the sake of the late starters I hope for the latter (or as you have said now that I read more closely, just put those in the "army booster") although I'm sure many of us who were lucky enough to be able to afford multiple starter sets would happily part with our duplicate Battle decks/generic command cards if it meant we could help new players get what they need to start playing.

2 hours ago, arnoldrew said:

Good point.

You must have caught me in one of my rare moments of lucidity.

Considering it's what, four cards, I hope FFG will just eat the $_$ eyes and put them in a "army starter" box with the commander's regular cards. You can buy everything else seperate I think, so it's not a huge deal miss some other "core" accessories especially if the price is obviously reduced from a core - I think X-Wing is held back by the need for the whole damage deck.

56 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:

Considering it's what, four cards, I hope FFG will just eat the $_$ eyes and put them in a "army starter" box with the commander's regular cards. You can buy everything else seperate I think, so it's not a huge deal miss some other "core" accessories especially if the price is obviously reduced from a core - I think X-Wing is held back by the need for the whole damage deck.

I agree. That is why I did initially state that the cards should be included, though dice sold seperately.

As for x-wing, they recently announced some plastic maneuver templates - something that was only ever found in the core sets (or third party acrylics) so there is a chance that at somepoint, a damage deck COULD be sold seperately.

2 hours ago, UnitOmega said:

Considering it's what, four cards, I hope FFG will just eat the $_$ eyes and put them in a "army starter" box with the commander's regular cards. You can buy everything else seperate I think, so it's not a huge deal miss some other "core" accessories especially if the price is obviously reduced from a core - I think X-Wing is held back by the need for the whole damage deck.

The Battle deck cards, the generic Orders, and I believe all the upgrade cards from the core set are also unavailable through any other source than the Core Box (at this time).

Well, they'd have some upgrades, but battle deck is another good point. That's still very minimal, it'd be nice if it had them. Or they just sell "BIG BOX OF BATTLE CARDS".

39 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

The Battle deck cards, the generic Orders, and I believe all the upgrade cards from the core set are also unavailable through any other source than the Core Box (at this time).

There's also the needed punch-out cardboard bits: Objective, Victory, Unit ID, Condition, and Commander Tokens. Plus the round counter and deployment markers.

Still, I can see them releasing the exact same Upgrade cards in the CIS and Republic "Army Starters" as those that appear in the Legion Core set. Then you are really only looking at tossing in the 16 Command/Battle Cards and a sheet of additional tokens and be done.

39 minutes ago, FSD said:

There's also the needed punch-out cardboard bits: Objective, Victory, Unit ID, Condition, and Commander Tokens. Plus the round counter and deployment markers.

Still, I can see them releasing the exact same Upgrade cards in the CIS and Republic "Army Starters" as those that appear in the Legion Core set. Then you are really only looking at tossing in the 16 Command/Battle Cards and a sheet of additional tokens and be done.

Per the OT rules, the "Essential tokens are objective, condition, and order tokens." The Objective tokens are technically available separately in the form of "Priority Supplies," while the condition and order tokens are included with every unit.

I do agree that is the most likely outcome regarding the upgrades and other accessories, but we'll have to wait and see how FFG decides to handle it.

CMON had several faction based starter-sets for their Song of Ice and Fire game. I'm hoping FFG will use a similar model for the clone wars. I'd love to see single faction box sets for the droid army and the galactic republic respectively.